Help with sharpening with rod

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Pete, Jan 27, 2004.

  1. Pete

    Pete Guest

    I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.

    Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?

    I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not getting any sharper.
     
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  2. Sam Salmon

    Sam Salmon Guest

    It's called a Steel-a Sharpening Steel. Try http://www.ameritech.net/users/knives/index.htm you
    probably need something more than just a Steel-they are somewhat old fashioned.

    On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:50:49 -0600, Pete <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
    >
    >Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?
    >
    >I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not getting any sharper.
     
  3. Jacqui{Jb}

    Jacqui{Jb} Guest

    "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.

    It's more properly called a "steel."

    > Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these? I cook a lot, and use the
    > sharpening rod.. but the knives are not getting any sharper.

    The steel helps keep the existing edge true, rather than actually sharpening. It could be that your
    knives are simply read to have a new edge put on, either professionally or by you, using a
    sharpening stone.

    Jerry Avins posted this link to alt.cooking chat recently -- it's very informative:
    http://gpvec.unl.edu/files/feedlot/Sharp1.htm

    If you decide you want to invest in a sharpening system above and beyond a sharpening stone, this
    one is interesting, if expensive: http://business.gorge.net/edgepro/

    -j
     
  4. On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:50:49 -0600, Pete wrote:

    > I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
    >
    > Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?
    >
    > I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not getting any sharper.

    That's because, despite the name, it's *not* for sharpening: it's for *honing*. The blade, with use,
    goes out of true and the honing steel will help you right the blade. But, as the blade *dulls*, no
    amount of honing will help that. You need to have a blade smith come and sharpen the blade for you.

    --
    Darryl L. Pierce <[email protected]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?" "Die for oil
    suckers....suckers....suckers...." - Jello Biafra
     
  5. Themom1

    Themom1 Guest

    A steel will only remove some of the bad edge, you need a stone to sharpen them before you use
    the steel.

    --
    Helen

    Thanks be unto God for His wonderful gift: Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God is the object
    of our faith; the only faith that saves is faith in Him

    <>< ><> www.peagramfamily.com http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com/

    http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com/MY_WEIGHT_WATCHERS.html

    http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com/RECIPES.html

    225/188.4/145

    "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
    >
    > Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?
    >
    > I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not getting any sharper.
     
  6. On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:50:49 -0600, Pete <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
    >
    >Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?
    >
    >I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not getting any sharper.

    Perhaps you aren't tilting the knife enough. You have to feel the edge contact the rod, just barely.
    What the rod does is burnish the edge back straight where it has bent over.

    It also wears away the edge so after many years you may find a concavity in the edge. In that case
    grinding is necessary.

    Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

    Entering your freshman dorm for the first time, and seeing an axe head come through the door on
    your right.
     
  7. Penmart01

    Penmart01 Guest

    >"Herr Darryl Achtung Pierce" oinks:
    >
    Pete wrote:
    >
    >> I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
    >
    >That's because, despite the name, it's *not* for sharpening: it's for *honing*.

    Wrong. Knife steels *burnish*, they do not hone. Hones are abrasive and remove material, typically
    employed for finishing/sizing cylinder IDs. For finer finishing of more or less flat surfaces a
    *strop* is employed, but that too removes material with an abrasive, usually "rottenstone".

    There do indeed exist "sharpening rods" of many styles (and if that's what the OP says he has then
    that's what he's got - don't put your ignorant verbiage in people's mouths, you dumb Krautish lout
    bastard), usually constructed of ceramic, or a diamond dust impregnated substrate.

    Search: <sharpening rods>

    Global Ceramic Sharpening Rods - Global Ceramic Sharpening Rods. ... $29.95, add. 10-in. Ceramic
    Sharpening Rod by Global #G-25 IN STOCK! $84.95, add. Displaying Items 1 - 2 of 2, ...
    http://www.cutleryandmore.com/shop/prodlist.asp?BrandID=1&LineID=0&FamilyBD=84

    Kyocera Ceramic Sharpening Rods - ... Return Policy, BizRate Customer Certified (GOLD) Site. Kyocera
    Ceramic Sharpening Rods. 6-in. Ceramic Sharpening Rod by Kyocera Item No. CSW-12 IN STOCK! ...
    http://www.cutleryandmore.com/shop/cat.asp?brand=20&family=84 www.cutleryandmore.com]

    Ceramic Sharpening Rods -click image to enlarge - Knife Sharpeners ... - Knife Sharpener - Arkansas
    Sharpening Stone! Bench stones, tri-stone, also ceramic rods and leather strops. ... Ceramic
    Sharpening Rods -click image to enlarge. ... http://www.knifeart.com/cerspeedrod.html

    Smith's® Ceramic Sharpening Rods (Css9) - Big Ez Shoppe. Smith's® Ceramic Sharpening Rods (Css9).
    Smith's&reg; Ceramic Sharpening Rods (Css9) Smith's® Ceramic Sharpening Rods (Css9) SMITH ABRASIVES.
    ... http://www.bigezshoppe.com/ah/ac-0950.html

    A Cook's Wares - www.cookswares.com - ... Diamond Machining Technology Diamond Vee Sharpening Rods.
    ... We have found that the best way to keep knives sharp is to use sharpening rods. ...
    http://www.cookswares.com/individual.asp?n=4370

    <snipped>
    ---

    ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon
    ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
     
  8. On 1/27/2004 11:35 PM Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these
    great (and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge:

    The "steel" is used for honing the blade, just touching up the edge and/or removing any burr that
    may develop - not for sharpening.

    Depending on how much use the knives have had they may need sharpening. MOST local butcher shops
    will sharpen you knives for free.

    Personally, I don't know if I would trust my Wusthof knives to a butcher shop, however, there are
    many good knife sharpening people out there.

    If you want to do it yourself, I can highly recommend the "Chef's Choice" brand (about $100). I have
    a 320 (220 ?) and love it. I have only used the #1 wheel on one knife (It would barely cut melted
    butter {:-} ). I usually use the #3 wheel and the knives are literally sharp enough to shave with.

    On a personal note - after I sharpen the knives I HAVE TO POST SIGNS all over the kitchen so the
    wife doesn't cut herself (I sharpen her knives once a month and she has STRICT ORDERS NOT TO TOUCH
    THE WUSTHOF KNIVES [my knives]). One trip to the emergency room was enough (14 stitches and she
    didn't know she had cut herself until she looked and saw all the blood).

    > It's called a Steel-a Sharpening Steel. Try http://www.ameritech.net/users/knives/index.htm you
    > probably need something more than just a Steel-they are somewhat old fashioned.
    >
    >
    >
    > On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:50:49 -0600, Pete <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
    >>
    >>Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?
    >>
    >>I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not getting any sharper.
     
  9. Pete

    Pete Guest

    Any suggestions on where to get a stone?

    Are there rating by how coarse they are?

    My knives are a year old, used a lot and never sharpened.

    "THEMOM1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > A steel will only remove some of the bad edge, you need a stone to sharpen them before you use
    > the steel.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Helen
    >
    > Thanks be unto God for His wonderful gift: Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God is the
    > object of our faith; the only faith that saves is faith in Him
    >
    > <>< ><> www.peagramfamily.com http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com/
    >
    > http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com/MY_WEIGHT_WATCHERS.html
    >
    > http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com/RECIPES.html
    >
    >
    > 225/188.4/145
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
    > >
    > > Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?
    > >
    > > I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not getting any sharper.
     
  10. Pete

    Pete Guest

    Is it even a good idea to use the "steel" ?

    More harm then good???

    Rodney Myrvaagnes <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:50:49 -0600, Pete <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
    > >
    > >Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?
    > >
    > >I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not getting any sharper.
    >
    > Perhaps you aren't tilting the knife enough. You have to feel the edge contact the rod, just
    > barely. What the rod does is burnish the edge back straight where it has bent over.
    >
    > It also wears away the edge so after many years you may find a concavity in the edge. In that case
    > grinding is necessary.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a
    >
    > Entering your freshman dorm for the first time, and seeing an axe head come through the door on
    > your right.
     
  11. On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:45:01 +0000, PENMART01 wrote:

    >>"Herr Darryl Achtung Pierce" oinks:
    >>
    > Pete wrote:
    >>
    >>> I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
    >>
    >>That's because, despite the name, it's *not* for sharpening: it's for *honing*.
    >
    > Wrong. Knife steels *burnish*, they do not hone. Hones are abrasive and remove material,

    Which a steel has and does, though it really pushes metal back into place more than it does
    remove material.

    > typically employed for finishing/sizing cylinder IDs. For finer finishing of more or less flat
    > surfaces a *strop* is employed, but that too removes material with an abrasive, usually
    > "rottenstone".
    >
    > There do indeed exist "sharpening rods" of many styles (and if that's what the OP says he has then
    > that's what he's got - don't put your ignorant verbiage in people's mouths, you dumb Krautish lout
    > bastard),

    Krautish? WTF are you babbling about now?

    <snip>

    --
    Darryl L. Pierce <[email protected]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
     
  12. On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:12:20 -0800, Pete wrote:

    > Is it even a good idea to use the "steel" ?
    >
    > More harm then good???

    No harm in them, no, as long as you understand what they are and aren't doing. As long as you don't
    expect the blade to be sharper when done, then they're doing no harm.

    --
    Darryl L. Pierce <[email protected]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
     
  13. On 28 Jan 2004 12:12:20 -0800, [email protected] (Pete) wrote:

    >Is it even a good idea to use the "steel" ?
    >
    >More harm then good???
    >

    You should use the steel every day. If you keep the edge good with the steel you can go years
    without having to use an abrasive on it.

    When the edge goes, you have to use a stone, which makes the knife a little smaller.
    Eventually, no knife.

    Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

    The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of
    discouraging rational inquiry.
    - Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"
     
  14. John Bailey

    John Bailey Guest

    "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Any suggestions on where to get a stone?

    THe cheapest good ones are from woodworking stores. Have a look around the net for woodworking sites
    in your country.
    >
    > Are there rating by how coarse they are?

    Yes. The best I have found are Japanese water stones. They are sold in various grits/sizes. A
    standard sized combination stone will be about two inches wide and a grit of 1000 one side 6000
    the other side will give you a razor edge once you learn how to use it.. <not an exageration. I
    can shave with some of my knives> These stones just need to be soaked in water for about half an
    hour, then put on the worktop on a folded towel to stop it moving. They can be a bit messy, so use
    an old towel.

    Because you use water, and the grit that wears off is just a ceramic man made material, there is no
    danger of it contaminating your food like oil could do if it works its way into the handle of your
    knife. Just rinse it after sharpening. After use, always wash all the grit and metal powder that was
    created in the sharpening process off the stone with cold running water. Let it dry out for a day or
    two. Otherwise you will get a mouldy stone.

    Then you use your steel to maintain the edge untill it gets blunt again.

    > My knives are a year old, used a lot and never sharpened.

    Then you may need to set aside quite a lot of time to sharpen, and don't let them get in such a
    state again. Look around on the net for websites with articles on sharpening. Once you get the
    knives in good shape, it will only take minutes to bring them from a little dull to perfectly sharp.

    http://silverkitchen.com/Knife_Knowledge/knife_sharpening.html Has some good articles. Read a few
    and go with the method that feels right for you.

    John
     
  15. In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Pete) writes:

    >Any suggestions on where to get a stone?

    I use this kit (no affiliation) with all of my kitchen, utility, and tactical knives:

    http://www.razoredgesystems.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=33

    The manufacturer recommends that you don't use oil or water, but use the hones dry instead. I was
    skeptical at first (having always used honing oil), but my Wusthof and Benchmade knives were sharp
    enough to shave with after using the kit as directed.

    Regards,
    Greg
    --
    \|/ ___ \|/ [email protected] +----- 2048/83C90191 -----+ @~./'O o`\[email protected] | 0B 65 E0 58 F3 F9 81 F5
    | /__( \___/ )__\ Crypto, Security, and Phrack: | F0 72 75 FA 1E BD C9 66 | `\__`U_/'
    http://pobox.com/~thevision +-------- via WWW --------+
     
  16. The Wolf

    The Wolf Guest

    On 01/28/2004 11:27 PM, in article [email protected], "John
    Bailey" <[email protected]> opined:

    >
    > "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Any suggestions on where to get a stone?
    >
    > THe cheapest good ones are from woodworking stores. Have a look around the net for woodworking
    > sites in your country.
    >>
    >> Are there rating by how coarse they are?
    >
    > Yes. The best I have found are Japanese water stones. They are sold in various grits/sizes. A
    > standard sized combination stone will be about two inches wide and a grit of 1000 one side 6000
    > the other side will give you a razor edge once you learn how to use it.. <not an exageration. I
    > can shave with some of my knives> These stones just need to be soaked in water for about half an
    > hour, then put on the worktop on a folded towel to stop it moving. They can be a bit messy, so use
    > an old towel.
    >
    > Because you use water, and the grit that wears off is just a ceramic man made material, there is
    > no danger of it contaminating your food like oil could do if it works its way into the handle of
    > your knife. Just rinse it after sharpening. After use, always wash all the grit and metal powder
    > that was created in the sharpening process off the stone with cold running water. Let it dry out
    > for a day or two. Otherwise you will get a mouldy stone.

    Most of your info was relevant and true except the above.

    Japanese waterstones have to be saturated with water to work properly, so they always need to be
    stored in water.

    Get a Tupperware container big enough to store your stone and keep it submerged. If you are
    concerned about mould put one capful of Clorox bleach in the Tupperware.

    And Japanese waterstones must be constantly flattened because they are so soft. If you want to know
    how to do that, let us know.
    >
    > Then you use your steel to maintain the edge untill it gets blunt again.
    >
    >> My knives are a year old, used a lot and never sharpened.
    >
    > Then you may need to set aside quite a lot of time to sharpen, and don't let them get in such
    > a state again. Look around on the net for websites with articles on sharpening. Once you get
    > the knives in good shape, it will only take minutes to bring them from a little dull to
    > perfectly sharp.
    >
    > http://silverkitchen.com/Knife_Knowledge/knife_sharpening.html Has some good articles. Read a few
    > and go with the method that feels right for you.
    >
    > John
     
  17. John Bailey

    John Bailey Guest

    > Most of your info was relevant and true except the above.
    >
    > Japanese waterstones have to be saturated with water to work properly, so they always need to be
    > stored in water.

    For someone needing to sharpen every day such as a woodworker who needs to sharpen chisels and plane
    irons several times a day while working on a project or a professional kitchen where the knives
    would get blunt very quickly then storing them in water is essential. Nobody wants to stop work
    while waiting for the stones to drink up all the water they need. But for someone who is using the
    stone to sharpen perhaps three or four kitchen knives every other month, it may be more convinent to
    store the stone in a drawer and only take it out and soak it when the knives need sharpening.

    Such light use sharpening knives should not need a dead flat stone. Unlike woodworking tools, where
    a non flat stone is worse than useless, the curved edge of a knife doesn't require such an exact
    surface to get good results. A second coarser stone should be fine for many years of light use. Just
    rub the two together for a few minutes to wear off the high spots. although special truing stones
    are available which will do this faster.

    I could very well be using my sharpening stones to a fraction of their potential over the years. But
    I have found soaking them untill they can hold no more water, and then letting them dry out again
    after use to be more convinent, and I still get very good results. Others may have different
    preferences.

    John
     
  18. The Wolf

    The Wolf Guest

    On 01/29/2004 9:53 AM, in article [email protected], "John
    Bailey" <[email protected]> opined:

    >> Most of your info was relevant and true except the above.
    >>
    >> Japanese waterstones have to be saturated with water to work properly, so they always need to be
    >> stored in water.
    >
    > For someone needing to sharpen every day such as a woodworker who needs to sharpen chisels and
    > plane irons several times a day while working on a project or a professional kitchen where the
    > knives would get blunt very quickly then storing them in water is essential. Nobody wants to stop
    > work while waiting for the stones to drink up all the water they need. But for someone who is
    > using the stone to sharpen perhaps three or four kitchen knives every other month, it may be more
    > convinent to store the stone in a drawer and only take it out and soak it when the knives need
    > sharpening.
    >
    > Such light use sharpening knives should not need a dead flat stone.

    IMO you're missing the point here. Why sacrifice quality of honing, the reason Japanese waterstone
    cut so well is they are MUCH softer than Arkansas oilstones. The black material left on the stone is
    metal coming off the knife.

    Go to your local glass dealer and ask if they have any 1/2" scrap, then go to the hardware store and
    get some 220 grit wet & dry sandpaper.

    Put the sandpaper on top of the glass and spray with water. Rub the stone until all the black
    material is gone and you have a clean surface, this indicates it is flat again.

    Continue honing and you will notice improvement.

    Unlike
    > woodworking tools, where a non flat stone is worse than useless, the curved edge of a knife
    > doesn't require such an exact surface to get good results. A second coarser stone should be fine
    > for many years of light use. Just rub the two together for a few minutes to wear off the high
    > spots. although special truing stones are available which will do this faster.
    >
    > I could very well be using my sharpening stones to a fraction of their potential over the years.
    > But I have found soaking them untill they can hold no more water, and then letting them dry out
    > again after use to be more convinent, and I still get very good results. Others may have different
    > preferences.
    >
    > John
    >
    >
    >
    >

    --
    ============================================================================
    "There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism...The one absolutely certain way of
    bringing this nation to ruin...would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling
    nationalities." Theodore Roosevelt. (Speech, New York, 1915)
    ============================================================================
     
  19. Sam Salmon

    Sam Salmon Guest

    On 28 Jan 2004 12:11:19 -0800, [email protected] (Pete) wrote:

    >Any suggestions on where to get a stone?
    >
    >Are there rating by how coarse they are?
    >
    >My knives are a year old, used a lot and never sharpened.
    >
    >

    http://www.leevalley.com
     
  20. John Bailey

    John Bailey Guest

    > IMO you're missing the point here. Why sacrifice quality of honing, the reason Japanese waterstone
    > cut so well is they are MUCH softer than
    Arkansas
    > oilstones. The black material left on the stone is metal coming off the knife.

    Which is mostly rinsed off by the water I drizzle on the stone. The 1000 is coarse enough to not
    retain the metal swarf, and the fine side is finished with the nagura stone which suspends most of
    the swarf in the slurry. About every fourth or fifth time I use the stones, I rub the two I have
    together, which keeps both surfaces true and rinsing the resultant slurry away gets rid of any
    blackness.

    > Go to your local glass dealer and ask if they have any 1/2" scrap, then go to the hardware store
    > and get some 220 grit wet & dry sandpaper.
    >
    > Put the sandpaper on top of the glass and spray with water. Rub the stone until all the black
    > material is gone and you have a clean surface, this indicates it is flat again.

    The same process is often used for fettling hand planes. I'm well aware of it, although I belive
    that the abrasive used is normally a bit finer than that. 220 grit is a bit coarse. Try something a
    bit finer and your stones will last longer.

    > Continue honing and you will notice improvement.

    They have worked to the same high standard since the day I got them. I've been using the same stones
    since 97 or so, and have no black metal buildup, no clogging, my waterstones are flat, and the edges
    on my cooking and relevant woodworking tools and those of several friends are immaculate.

    The point I was making about flatness was in relation to kitchen knives, which I was assuming that
    the original poster was intending to be the only thing they were sharpening. In this case, the stone
    does not need to be flat to work correctly as it does with woodworking tools.

    John
     
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