Help with some references?

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by Tamyka Bell, Nov 1, 2006.

  1. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    Friday wrote:
    >
    > Tamyka Bell wrote:
    > > In my local paper this week, there was an article about
    > > damage being done by "young hoodlums" in a local reserve.
    > > Apparently these hoodlums are leaving bongs in the bushland
    > > and are riding their bikes. The spokesperson for the local
    > > conservation group made a comment that "cycling causes 100
    > > times the damage that bushwalking does" which I think is a
    > > ludicrous statement. I vaguely remembered someone posting
    > > something about damage levels... and hoped someone could
    > > point me in the right direction (because I have heaps of
    > > marking to do and no time to go find a vacant computer with
    > > web access...) I'd like to write a letter calling the
    > > article "claptrap" or similar.
    > >
    > > As an aside, I've seen those hoodlums while running in
    > > their. They were carrying knives and small axes and big
    > > backpacks. They were riding their bikes on the formed trails
    > > and not skidding. Somehow I don't think it was their cycling
    > > causing the damage...
    > >
    > > Tam

    >
    > There was someone involved with the Southwest Mountain bike club (in
    > Bunbury, Western Australia) who did a study as a Uni thesis and found
    > that walkers did more damage, especially when walking downhill with a
    > back pack. Contact Damon Willmore or Trek cycles in Bunbury for further
    > details.
    >
    > Friday


    Goeft, U. and Alder, J. (2001). "Sustainable mountain
    biking: a case study from the southwest of Western
    Australia," Journal of Sustainable Tourism, 9(3):193-211.

    That was on the IMBA website.

    Tam
     


  2. Bikesoiler

    Bikesoiler New Member

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    Terry

    If any soil scientist has funding for research into this topic I'm willing to volunteer my time to help. I spend plenty of time & effort on trail building & maintenance. This in a small way compensates for the damage I may do while riding my MTB. Every MTBA member/licence holder is also supporting a national body that provides for trail works. I know many MTB riders are neither MTBA members nor give a sh!t about trail maintenance. Simular attitude to the road riders ignoring traffic laws.

    Are you part of the solution, or part of the problem?
     
  3. Terryc

    Terryc Guest

    Bikesoiler wrote:

    >>lol, exactly what I am talking about.
    >>Pissing in the wind with unsubstantiated claims is going to bite them
    >>in
    >>the arse.
    >>Do not confuse purpose built courses as part of recreational
    >>facilties,
    >>for which there will be a allocation for ongoing maintenance, with the
    >>unsubstantiated general claims being advanced by mtb'ers that the
    >>overseas "research" proves their contention that mtb cause as little
    >>damages as bush walkers. It needs to be shown that this applies in
    >>Australia.

    >
    >
    >
    > Terry
    >
    > If any soil scientist has funding for research into this topic I'm
    > willing to volunteer my time to help.


    Look, all you need is is someone who knows how to document research and
    do some stats or learn how to do it yourself. You can/will find the soil
    scientist/others later to classify your soils and help you with
    recording any other data needed.

    Find various "virgin" strips of local bush and repeat those
    experiments. Take photos every 50/100 trips say.

    Do this on various slopes. Ideally, repeat on/under different vegetation
    zones.

    It would be best to have these test strips somewhere that normal riders
    and walkers do not use. Then you can examine them for long term damage.
    e.g the claim that bushwalkers do more damage on downhills can be
    currently countered that bushwalkers heels do not create versial strips
    that allow runoff to accelerate and create soil erosion.


    Publish on the net. Basically, you just document your methods in word
    and photographs (include date and time for weather input calculations),
    then collect results. Riders could contribute test strips from their
    location.

    My expectations are that MTB groups will come out in support of bans on
    mtb riding on certain slopes and certain vegetations because the
    potential for long term damage is just too great. This may well apply to
    bushwalking above a certain level as well.

    E.G. NPWs builds walk ways across certain vegeations in Kosciosko NP to
    stop the impact of walkers.

    Do not be intimidated by peeps with thinking it needs to be carried out
    by peeps with letters after their name. There is a good proportion of
    reaseach carried out by people without formal education in the field.


    > I spend plenty of time & effort on trail building & maintenance.
    > This in a small way compensates for the damage I may do
    > while riding my MTB.


    Note, my issue isn't with "constructed recreational facilities" which
    are not what this is about. That is an entitrely different matter.

    > I know many MTB riders are neither MTBA members nor give a sh!t
    > about trail maintenance. Simular attitude to the road riders ignoring
    > traffic laws.


    Agreed, unfortunately they are the ones that the public sees and
    writes/telephoes their local paper, councillors, local member, etc about.
    >
    > Are you part of the solution, or part of the problem?


    Both {:). I love off track wild riding. You see some great places.

    I've also met the arsehole, selfish MTB'er and they do not impress me
    with their claims that they should be allowed to ride anywhere they
    like. I place them in the same category as 4WD'ers who think they should
    have unfettered access to national parks.

    OTOH, I'm the person that added "bicycle trails" to a phamplet 13 years
    ago on uses for our loca bush reserve. It is now council policy. lol we
    snuck that one in. BUT, the support is only for using the existing
    firetrails (two trails in 100m width is excessive).

    The really major problems here are;
    a) motor bike that go everywhere and contribute to major sand drifts
    (sandstone soils),
    b) bmx'ers who use backhoes to construct jumps everywhere (I believe
    this is a council employee/contractor doing this),
    c) the use of ungraded crushed sandstone on the trails (loose traction
    going down a sloping road and you kiss the ground)
    d) too many keys to locked gates (firewood collectors amongst emergency
    services personnel),
    e) lizard, snakes, etc collectors (acres of surface stones overturned in
    searches for these).
    f) bush rock stealers.

    It isn't that exiting for MTB stuff, so we don't see them much.

    You can shoot the messenger, but if you want to cut out the hysterics[1]
    who oppose you, then you have to have hard, valid data. To me, MTB'er
    currently sound like all those housewives who drive their children to
    school in $WDs so keep them safe from drug crazed, bicycle ride peodophiles.


    [1] You are not going to win them over. You just have to convinve
    council/some-authority staff that it is all anti-bike hysteria and you
    have the proof to support your claims. As it stands, anyone with
    experience in writing submissions can, with a little research, pull the
    rug out from all the pro-MTB claims being made.
     
  4. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    Terryc wrote:
    >
    > Bikesoiler wrote:
    >
    > > If any soil scientist has funding for research into this topic I'm
    > > willing to volunteer my time to help.

    >
    > Look, all you need is is someone who knows how to document research and
    > do some stats or learn how to do it yourself. You can/will find the soil
    > scientist/others later to classify your soils and help you with
    > recording any other data needed.
    >
    > Find various "virgin" strips of local bush and repeat those
    > experiments. Take photos every 50/100 trips say.


    The article which inspired all this discussion was not
    referring to virgin strips of local bush. It was referring
    to walking/management tracks in Whites Hill Reserve which
    are designed pretty similarly to the tracks in regions such
    as Daisy Hill Forest and Gap Creek Reserve, two areas in
    which mountain bikers have _not_ been accused of causing
    "100 times the damage of walking".

    <snip>

    > Note, my issue isn't with "constructed recreational facilities" which
    > are not what this is about. That is an entitrely different matter.


    Actually, that was the entire point of the topic.

    <snip>
    > [1] You are not going to win them over. You just have to convinve
    > council/some-authority staff that it is all anti-bike hysteria and you
    > have the proof to support your claims. As it stands, anyone with
    > experience in writing submissions can, with a little research, pull the
    > rug out from all the pro-MTB claims being made.


    The complaint was with the media reporting non-facts as
    facts. I asked them to back it up. Wow, talk about a subject
    change.

    Tam
     
  5. On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 14:04:13 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >In my local paper this week, there was an article about
    >damage being done by "young hoodlums" in a local reserve.
    >Apparently these hoodlums are leaving bongs in the bushland
    >and are riding their bikes. The spokesperson for the local
    >conservation group made a comment that "cycling causes 100
    >times the damage that bushwalking does" which I think is a
    >ludicrous statement. I vaguely remembered someone posting
    >something about damage levels... and hoped someone could
    >point me in the right direction (because I have heaps of
    >marking to do and no time to go find a vacant computer with
    >web access...) I'd like to write a letter calling the
    >article "claptrap" or similar.
    >
    >As an aside, I've seen those hoodlums while running in
    >their. They were carrying knives and small axes and big
    >backpacks. They were riding their bikes on the formed trails
    >and not skidding. Somehow I don't think it was their cycling
    >causing the damage...
    >
    >Tam


    I doubt there is bugger all difference. Most tracks that bike riders
    use are already well worn, and the ones that aren't probably are not
    suited to bikes anyway.
     
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