Heras may sign with Astana..!!



R

Ron Ruff

Guest
So I guess you feel that a rider who tests positive should receive a
lifetime ban, even though the rules call for a 2-year ban...?

I knew that Bruyneel would be a hot property because he successfully
kept anyone on his team from ever getting caught... while also getting
excellent results.
 
D

Donald Munro

Guest
Ron Ruff wrote:
> I knew that Bruyneel would be a hot property because he successfully
> kept anyone on his team from ever getting caught... while also getting
> excellent results.


Heras should be as clean as Armstrong from now on.
 
On Oct 13, 9:42 am, Ron Ruff <[email protected]> wrote:
> So I guess you feel that a rider who tests positive should receive a
> lifetime ban, even though the rules call for a 2-year ban...?
>
> I knew that Bruyneel would be a hot property because he successfully
> kept anyone on his team from ever getting caught... while also getting
> excellent results.


It's really a matter PR more than anything else. After the doping
scandals Astana had this year they cannot afford to have a rider who
is a doper. As for the UCI ban it's the teams and the race organizers
choice to let a rider race or not. But as I have said before I believe
in a first use lifetime ban. Bernard Hinault recently called for first
use lifetime ban as well.
 
On Oct 13, 9:42 am, Ron Ruff <[email protected]> wrote:
> So I guess you feel that a rider who tests positive should receive a
> lifetime ban, even though the rules call for a 2-year ban...?
>
> I knew that Bruyneel would be a hot property because he successfully
> kept anyone on his team from ever getting caught... while also getting
> excellent results.


It's really a matter PR more than anything else. After the doping
scandals Astana had this year they cannot afford to have a rider who
is a doper. As for the UCI ban it's the teams and the race organizers
choice to let a rider race or not. But as I have said before I believe
in a first use lifetime ban. Bernard Hinault recently called for first
use lifetime ban as well.
 
On Oct 13, 9:21 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Oct 13, 9:42 am, Ron Ruff <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > So I guess you feel that a rider who tests positive should receive a
> > lifetime ban, even though the rules call for a 2-year ban...?

>
> > I knew that Bruyneel would be a hot property because he successfully
> > kept anyone on his team from ever getting caught... while also getting
> > excellent results.

>
> It's really a matter PR more than anything else. After the doping
> scandals Astana had this year they cannot afford to have a rider who
> is a doper. As for the UCI ban it's the teams and the race organizers
> choice to let a rider race or not. But as I have said before I believe
> in a first use lifetime ban. Bernard Hinault recently called for first
> use lifetime ban as well.


If you believe that your opinion also applies to newsgroups, then we
should never hear from you again.

-ilan
 
M

Mike Jacoubowsky

Guest
> Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html )
>
> Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> Basso fiasco.


Hardly. Heras has served his time, and will be watched like a hawk. Or are
you suggesting that the ban for doping should be life? Or that there should
only be certain teams convicted dopers are allowed to be part of, kind of a
halfway-house sort of deal?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html )
>
> Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> Basso fiasco.
>
 
On Oct 13, 11:26 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)

>
> > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> > Basso fiasco.

>
> Hardly. Heras has served his time, and will be watched like a hawk. Or are
> you suggesting that the ban for doping should be life? Or that there should
> only be certain teams convicted dopers are allowed to be part of, kind of a
> halfway-house sort of deal?
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]
>
> > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)

>
> > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> > Basso fiasco.


Maybe he's suggesting what the Stuttgart people did, that people be
banned because they belong to an era where doping is prevalent.

-ilan
 
L

lewdvig

Guest
On Oct 13, 3:37 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 13, 11:26 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> > > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)

>
> > > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> > > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> > > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> > > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> > > Basso fiasco.

>
> > Hardly. Heras has served his time, and will be watched like a hawk. Or are
> > you suggesting that the ban for doping should be life? Or that there should
> > only be certain teams convicted dopers are allowed to be part of, kind of a
> > halfway-house sort of deal?

>
> > --Mike Jacoubowsky
> > Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> > Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

>
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message

>
> >news:[email protected]

>
> > > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> > > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)

>
> > > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> > > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> > > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> > > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> > > Basso fiasco.

>
> Maybe he's suggesting what the Stuttgart people did, that people be
> banned because they belong to an era where doping is prevalent.
>
> -ilan


The 'optics' of this will look so bad to the regular media. I hope a
couple of years pass without an american at the pinnacle of the sport
so that cycling gets a chance to flush this **** out.
 
T

Tom Kunich

Guest
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html )
>
> Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> Basso fiasco.


So what you're saying is that signing David Millar means that you're a clean
team but signing Heras means the opposite?
 
T

Tom Kunich

Guest
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Maybe he's suggesting what the Stuttgart people did, that people be
> banned because they belong to an era where doping is prevalent.


You've seen the sort of postings here that cry that everyone has been doping
and anyone that does well must categorically be a doper. Why you'd think
that they don't understand anything at all about what dope does.
 
M

Mike Jacoubowsky

Guest
>> > > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
>> > > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
>> > > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
>> > > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
>> > > Basso fiasco.

>>
>> Maybe he's suggesting what the Stuttgart people did, that people be
>> banned because they belong to an era where doping is prevalent.
>>
>> -ilan

>
> The 'optics' of this will look so bad to the regular media. I hope a
> couple of years pass without an american at the pinnacle of the sport
> so that cycling gets a chance to flush this **** out.


This thread has dealt with Heras, Bruyneel and Basso. Where do the Americans
come into it?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"lewdvig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Oct 13, 3:37 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Oct 13, 11:26 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
>> > > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)

>>
>> > > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
>> > > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
>> > > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
>> > > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
>> > > Basso fiasco.

>>
>> > Hardly. Heras has served his time, and will be watched like a hawk. Or
>> > are
>> > you suggesting that the ban for doping should be life? Or that there
>> > should
>> > only be certain teams convicted dopers are allowed to be part of, kind
>> > of a
>> > halfway-house sort of deal?

>>
>> > --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> > Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
>> > Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

>>
>> > <[email protected]> wrote in message

>>
>> >news:[email protected]

>>
>> > > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
>> > > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)

>>
>> > > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
>> > > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
>> > > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
>> > > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
>> > > Basso fiasco.

>>
>> Maybe he's suggesting what the Stuttgart people did, that people be
>> banned because they belong to an era where doping is prevalent.
>>
>> -ilan

>
> The 'optics' of this will look so bad to the regular media. I hope a
> couple of years pass without an american at the pinnacle of the sport
> so that cycling gets a chance to flush this **** out.
>
 
M

Mike Jacoubowsky

Guest
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected] com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Heras may sign with Astana..!!
>> (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html )
>>
>> Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
>> any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
>> insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
>> maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
>> Basso fiasco.

>
> So what you're saying is that signing David Millar means that you're a
> clean team but signing Heras means the opposite?


One not-entirely-subtle difference is that David Millar eventually fessed
up, big time, and has been quite up-front about what he did, and repentent
as well. Heras? What have we heard from him during his suspension? David
Millar managed to put himself into the position of poster-child for the
reformed doper. I think that's a significant difference.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
 
R

Ryan Cousineau

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Tom Kunich" <[email protected] com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> >> Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> >> (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html )
> >>
> >> Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> >> any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> >> insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> >> maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> >> Basso fiasco.

> >
> > So what you're saying is that signing David Millar means that you're a
> > clean team but signing Heras means the opposite?

>
> One not-entirely-subtle difference is that David Millar eventually fessed
> up, big time, and has been quite up-front about what he did, and repentent
> as well. Heras? What have we heard from him during his suspension? David
> Millar managed to put himself into the position of poster-child for the
> reformed doper. I think that's a significant difference.


What's that line from Gone With the Wind? It's a scene between Ben
Franklin and Scarlett O'Hara:

BEN FRANKLIN: You are not sorry you committed wrong, but you are very
sorry you got caught.

In fairness to Millar, his repentance seems sincere, but I haven't heard
much of Heras since his conviction, and that may have a lot to do with
him being a Spaniard as opposed to a member of the Anglosphere. Millar's
interviews and feelings have been well-reported in the English press.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing
 
Let's be clear about this. It makes no sense for a team that has had
doping problems to go and hire another doper who just came off
suspension. There has been serious damage done to the sport by the
dopers. They have shown callous disregard for the sport. It has gotten
much more difficult to find sponsors now. The media and other are
calling the tdf the "Tour de Farce". We need a lifetime ban now for
any rider who tests positive.

Hera's will be allowed to ride again, but I doubt the tour organizers
will allow him to participate.

On Oct 13, 2:26 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)

>
> > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> > Basso fiasco.

>
> Hardly. Heras has served his time, and will be watched like a hawk. Or are
> you suggesting that the ban for doping should be life? Or that there should
> only be certain teams convicted dopers are allowed to be part of, kind of a
> halfway-house sort of deal?
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]
>
> > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)

>
> > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> > Basso fiasco.
 
T

Tom Kunich

Guest
"Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Tom Kunich" <[email protected] com> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]
>> >> Heras may sign with Astana..!!
>> >> (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html )
>> >>
>> >> Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
>> >> any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
>> >> insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
>> >> maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
>> >> Basso fiasco.
>> >
>> > So what you're saying is that signing David Millar means that you're a
>> > clean team but signing Heras means the opposite?

>>
>> One not-entirely-subtle difference is that David Millar eventually fessed
>> up, big time, and has been quite up-front about what he did, and
>> repentent
>> as well. Heras? What have we heard from him during his suspension? David
>> Millar managed to put himself into the position of poster-child for the
>> reformed doper. I think that's a significant difference.

>
> What's that line from Gone With the Wind? It's a scene between Ben
> Franklin and Scarlett O'Hara:
>
> BEN FRANKLIN: You are not sorry you committed wrong, but you are very
> sorry you got caught.
>
> In fairness to Millar, his repentance seems sincere, but I haven't heard
> much of Heras since his conviction, and that may have a lot to do with
> him being a Spaniard as opposed to a member of the Anglosphere. Millar's
> interviews and feelings have been well-reported in the English press.


How's your Spanish? What Spanish sports newspapers do you subscribe to? I
mean, you seem so interested in Heras and yet my guess is that you wouldn't
bother one second to actually look it up.
 
L

lewdvig

Guest
On Oct 13, 5:25 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> >> > > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> >> > > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> >> > > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> >> > > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> >> > > Basso fiasco.

>
> >> Maybe he's suggesting what the Stuttgart people did, that people be
> >> banned because they belong to an era where doping is prevalent.

>
> >> -ilan

>
> > The 'optics' of this will look so bad to the regular media. I hope a
> > couple of years pass without an american at the pinnacle of the sport
> > so that cycling gets a chance to flush this **** out.

>
> This thread has dealt with Heras, Bruyneel and Basso. Where do the Americans
> come into it?
>


The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
American at the top of the sport. It would be nice to have their
attention focused somewhere else. The only thing they report on re:
cycling are the scandals. So no news would be good news IMO.

Astana will have a big bullseye on their jerseys. WADA will be
hounding these guys all year. They will dope, and without Lance's
extreme paranoia they will be caught, and then everything will be
linked back to Lance (with or without proof). You read it here first.
 
M

Mike Jacoubowsky

Guest
>> This thread has dealt with Heras, Bruyneel and Basso. Where do the
>> Americans
>> come into it?
>>

>
> The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
> American at the top of the sport. It would be nice to have their
> attention focused somewhere else. The only thing they report on re:
> cycling are the scandals. So no news would be good news IMO.


Ah, I see. So those creating the scandals, by leaking information, bear no
responsibility? Probably not, because they're not American.

It's not as if American media is doing any real investigative reporting
that's turning up anything new. Most assuredly they are NOT. All they're
doing is reporting whatever L'Equipe or David Walsh or whomever have to say.

> Astana will have a big bullseye on their jerseys. WADA will be
> hounding these guys all year. They will dope, and without Lance's
> extreme paranoia they will be caught, and then everything will be
> linked back to Lance (with or without proof). You read it here first.


Just because I read it here first doesn't mean I understand it. And if I
don't understand it, it's tough to validate it.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"lewdvig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Oct 13, 5:25 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> >> > > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will
>> >> > > lose
>> >> > > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
>> >> > > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
>> >> > > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
>> >> > > Basso fiasco.

>>
>> >> Maybe he's suggesting what the Stuttgart people did, that people be
>> >> banned because they belong to an era where doping is prevalent.

>>
>> >> -ilan

>>
>> > The 'optics' of this will look so bad to the regular media. I hope a
>> > couple of years pass without an american at the pinnacle of the sport
>> > so that cycling gets a chance to flush this **** out.

>>
>> This thread has dealt with Heras, Bruyneel and Basso. Where do the
>> Americans
>> come into it?
>>

>
> The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
> American at the top of the sport. It would be nice to have their
> attention focused somewhere else. The only thing they report on re:
> cycling are the scandals. So no news would be good news IMO.
>
> Astana will have a big bullseye on their jerseys. WADA will be
> hounding these guys all year. They will dope, and without Lance's
> extreme paranoia they will be caught, and then everything will be
> linked back to Lance (with or without proof). You read it here first.
>
>