Heras suspended

The Roberto-bashers here are just displaying blatant anti-Spanishism.
This is a disgrace. No Spanish would ever take drugs. You can just
tell. Why do people always resort to blaming Spain? Must be jealousy of
Spain's economic dominance.

Jason Spaceman said:

Roberto Heras has been suspended by Liberty Seguros after a positive A sample
EPO test ---> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/nov05/nov08news

Yawn.
<http://groups.google.co.nz/group/rec.bicycles.racing/browse_frm/thread/9222e3b330027ceb/80b111873d61bea3?lnk=st&q=group:rec.bicycles.racing+Fleming+[censored]&rnum=9&hl=en#80b111873d61bea3>

Bill C said:

Quoted message said:

And once again it became public through leaks before the B sample had
been tested. Once again we've got s preliminary result, a trial in the
court of public opinion, and a damaged reputation and earning capacity.
Not even going into the questions about the test itself, once again we
have a confidentiality problem.

B. Lafferty said:

So, assuming that there was a leak (we have only the team's word for that as
nothing was in fact published until the press release from Roberto's team),
the leak must have come from someone in the UCI, the Spanish cycling
federation, Heras or his team.

You've got opportunity now all you need is motive.

Scott said:

hardly matters if they've got it wrong or not. He'll be skewered in
the court of public (aka RBR) opinion regardless. No need to wait for
the B sample results.

I suspect you're more likely to get a hung jury if you select the right
rbr posters as the jury members.

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hardly matters if they've got it wrong or not. He'll be skewered in
the court of public (aka RBR)

No, Heras should have stayed with US Postal, then he would have been another
false positive.

"Patricio Carlos" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Roberto-bashers here are just displaying blatant anti-Spanishism.
This is a disgrace. No Spanish would ever take drugs. You can just
tell. Why do people always resort to blaming Spain? Must be jealousy of
Spain's economic dominance.

And they hate freedom.

Scott said:

I don't know if it's true, but there's an interesting point that's
brought up on www.cyclocosm.com. Supposedly he couldn't have injected
the EPO for more than 4 days prior to the test (or it wouldn't have
shown up) and yet it wouldn't have taken effect for more than two weeks
(which is after Heras' season would be over). Why the hell would he
take a banned substance that would in no way help him?

Ah, the old "but it would be illogical to dope!" defense. Look at the
genius defending Hondo:

Herr Franke, "German doping expert", and his 21st century defense on
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/nov05/nov05news

1) The amount found is inconsistent with producing optimal results!
2) He knew he would be tested!
3) Carphedon is hard to come by!
And to top it off:
4) It must have been a contaminated water bottle!

I had to laugh.

--
E. Dronkert

Patricio Carlos said:

Quoted message said:

The Roberto-bashers here are just displaying blatant anti-Spanishism.
This is a disgrace. No Spanish would ever take drugs. You can just
tell. Why do people always resort to blaming Spain? Must be jealousy of
Spain's economic dominance.

Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

And they hate freedom.

Freedom fries from mcdonalds.

Scott said:

Quoted message said:

(which is after Heras' season would be over). Why the hell would he
take a banned substance that would in no way help him?

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Ah, the old "but it would be illogical to dope!" defense. Look at the
genius defending Hondo:

3) Carphedon is hard to come by!
And to top it off:
4) It must have been a contaminated water bottle!

That explains everything ! I was wondering why I could suddenly memorise
the entire WADA banned list and the karma sutra after drinking
from a water bottle that hadn't been cleaned for a week.

Walrus said:

This is massive. I hope the B sample comes back negative...cycling
doesn't need this right now.

--
Walrus

oh come on. It isn't that bad. Cycling has a lot of top level, young
riders who are giving cycling a young, fresh, appealing and positive
look (Cunego, Valverde, Boonen, Pozzato, Dekker II, ...). Those are
the new stars. Over here Boonen made cycling even more popular than
during the domination of Museeuw in the mid 90's cycling (especially
women's attention has been drawn to cycling). In Italy Cunego is the
new Messiah after Pantani. Valverde still has a GT to win but i think
in terms of popularity (women!) and marketing he's past Indurain. And
Dekker II is most pure talent in the peloton right now. What's there
to whine about??

Kenny

Donald Munro said:

Scott said:

hardly matters if they've got it wrong or not. He'll be skewered in
the court of public (aka RBR) opinion regardless. No need to wait for
the B sample results.

I suspect you're more likely to get a hung jury if you select the right
rbr posters as the jury members.

Well hung members, to boot.

Patricio Carlos said:

The Roberto-bashers here are just displaying blatant anti-Spanishism.
This is a disgrace. No Spanish would ever take drugs. You can just
tell. Why do people always resort to blaming Spain? Must be jealousy of
Spain's economic dominance.

Yeah, the conspiration against Vuelta winners is obvious.
2000 - Heras wins, and he's now positive
2001 - Casero wins, and soon there are news about "special cranks"
(sic) given to him by Kelme's doctor
2002 - Aitor Gonzalez wins, and he's now positive
2003 - Heras wins again. Nozal, who failed a hemtocrit test this
summer, was second.
2004 - Heras wins again. Santi Perez is sanctioned for two years soon
after finishing second in GC
2005 - Heras wins again.

This makes Ullrich the last clean winner -for a given definition of
clean- of both Vuelta and Tour.

Jenko

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Yeah, it was obvious all along. I mean, c'mon, look at his hair.
Plus that position. And he won the Tour of Spain three times for
three different teams -- everyone knows what that means. And some
years he won stages and other years he didn't. That's an obvious
sign.

How can a 60 kg climber drop everyone in a steep descent? That's not
humanly possible; it breaks several physics laws. Heras must have
doped.

Jenko

"Patricio Carlos" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Roberto-bashers here are just displaying blatant anti-Spanishism.
This is a disgrace. No Spanish would ever take drugs. You can just
tell. Why do people always resort to blaming Spain? Must be jealousy of
Spain's economic dominance.

It's a Neo-Franco conspiracy.

"Jenko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Yeah, it was obvious all along. I mean, c'mon, look at his hair.
Plus that position. And he won the Tour of Spain three times for
three different teams -- everyone knows what that means. And some
years he won stages and other years he didn't. That's an obvious
sign.

How can a 60 kg climber drop everyone in a steep descent? That's not
humanly possible; it breaks several physics laws. Heras must have
doped.

Jenko

No, it was just an A-sample that tested positive. That is not proof. Because
there is no proof, Heras must be innocent. Because he's innocent, the test
must be a false positive.

"Jenko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Yeah, it was obvious all along. I mean, c'mon, look at his hair.
Plus that position. And he won the Tour of Spain three times for
three different teams -- everyone knows what that means. And some
years he won stages and other years he didn't. That's an obvious
sign.

How can a 60 kg climber drop everyone in a steep descent? That's not
humanly possible; it breaks several physics laws. Heras must have
doped.

Jenko

Who was it that demonstrated that objects of different weights fall at the
same rate? Descending has more to do with aerodynamics and skill that
weight. Remember Pantani chasing Indurain downhill in '94(?). He couldn't
close on Indurain but he wasn't losing ground either. I think Mig was
bigger than Marco.

B. Lafferty said:

"Patricio Carlos" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Roberto-bashers here are just displaying blatant anti-Spanishism.
This is a disgrace. No Spanish would ever take drugs. You can just
tell. Why do people always resort to blaming Spain? Must be jealousy of
Spain's economic dominance.

It's a Neo-Franco conspiracy.

No - has to be Opus Dei....

B. Lafferty said:

"Patricio Carlos" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Roberto-bashers here are just displaying blatant anti-Spanishism.
This is a disgrace. No Spanish would ever take drugs. You can just
tell. Why do people always resort to blaming Spain? Must be jealousy of
Spain's economic dominance.

It's a Neo-Franco conspiracy.

No - has to be Opus Dei....

B. Lafferty said:

Who was it that demonstrated that objects of different weights fall at the
same rate? Descending has more to do with aerodynamics and skill that
weight.

If no pedaling or turning is involved, it actually depends on the
weight / CdA ratio, which usually goes in favour of bigger riders. If
the descent can be pedalled, the power difference gives them additional
advantage. Turning is a different matter. Light riders can hit the
brakes later, and my intuition tells me they can also go faster through
the turn. I'm not sure about who has an edge in accelerations. Of
course, in practice, turning skills are more important than physics, I
fully agree on that.

Quoted message said:

Remember Pantani chasing Indurain downhill in '94(?). He couldn't
close on Indurain but he wasn't losing ground either. I think Mig was
bigger than Marco.

Pantani chasing Indurain? Could that be down the Mortirolo? If yes, it
was the other way around: Indurain chased and caught Pantani. I don't
remember if that was in the descent or in the flat that followed.
Having said that, Indurain was more an exception than the rule among
big riders, which tend to be less skilled than lighter ones. There are
excellent descenders among small guys (Pantani was a good example,
Etxebarria and Bettini too), not so much among taller ones ... or maybe
it is only that we don't watch them in TV.

Jenko

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hardly matters if they've got it wrong or not. He'll be skewered in
the court of public (aka RBR)

No, Heras should have stayed with US Postal, then he would have been

another

Quoted message said:

false positive.

Another snide remark from an insecure European. Just don't ask us Americans
to save your ass the next time the Germans take over your country.