Heron vs. Rivendell?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Mark H., Mar 27, 2003.

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  1. Mark H.

    Mark H. Guest

    I've read the respective websites. Does anyone have opinion/experience on the performance
    differences, or otherwise, between a Heron Road and a Rambouillet? Rivendell says there's no
    performance difference between the Romulus and Rambouillet, that's another consideration.

    Mark
     
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  2. Twobooglie

    Twobooglie Guest

    Both the Heron and the Rambouillet (and the Romulus for that matter) would be great choices for
    riders looking for a good, solid, all-around versatile road bike with a comfortable riding position.
    And all are beautiful to look at with great lugwork.

    The Heron was either designed by Rivendell's Grant Petersen, or designed with his input. In fact,
    Herons used to be marketed and sold by Rivendell. The performance of the bike should be very similar
    to the Ramboulliet. Both are designed as a good all-around road bike with room for wider tires and
    fenders. The geometry probably isn't all that different between the two, but the websites should be
    able to shed more light on that.

    I guess you could make your choice based on the price, or on the somewhat more emotional basis of
    which one you like the look of better - or color.

    My own personal slant on this? I have a Rivendell "sport-touring" bike which is very similar to the
    Rambouillet (virtually identical geometry), but just a tiny bit fancier in the lugs. I love it. And
    if you get the Rambouillet, you get slightly more "deluxe" paint versus the other choices (as long
    as you like orange - which I do).

    >I've read the respective websites. Does anyone have opinion/experience on the performance
    >differences, or otherwise, between a Heron Road and a Rambouillet? Rivendell says there's no
    >performance difference between the Romulus and Rambouillet, that's another consideration.
    >
    >Mark
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Guest

    "Mark H." <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > I've read the respective websites. Does anyone have opinion/experience on the performance
    > differences, or otherwise, between a Heron Road and a Rambouillet? Rivendell says there's no
    > performance difference between the Romulus and Rambouillet, that's another consideration.
    >
    > Mark

    The Heron is made by Waterford (when last I checked), which is as fine a steel bike builder you can
    find, thus no issues with build quality. It used to represent a design by Grant for a lower cost
    version of a typical Rivendell, but is now changed a bit with a slightly steeper seat tube and a
    longer TT, as example (in the 56). The Rambouillet is made in Japan by Toyo, also to Grants design
    and spec's.

    The Heron now comes in 4 colors, but seemingly has a plainer paint and design. The Rambouillet comes
    in orange with cream head tube and other embellishments, and is a very nice design to the eye - if
    you like orange.

    The Rambouillet has longer chainstays and a slacker angle HT (in 56 sizes) and probably a longer
    wheel base. I would guess that the Rambouillet also has more clearance for larger tires, as I know
    that despite how the Heron was marketed a few years back, I would be hard pressed to get a tire
    larger then 28mm with fenders on mine. The Rambouillet seems to take advantage of the newer Shimano
    Ultegra longer reach dual pivot brakes, which weren't available when the Heron was conceived.

    I would guess that the Rambouillet is a slightly less quick handling bike, but also more stable ?,
    due to the different geometry and angles. In essence, the Rambouillet is a more laid back version of
    the Heron, which seems a bit more like a typical road racer.

    In a few weeks I will find out if Klein is going to replace under warranty my 7 year old Quantum
    who's seat tube pinch bolt assembly cracked. I don't really want a replacement at this point -
    hating the '03 models, and may take an older '01/'02 if offered, or may get nothing at which
    point I have permission from the SO to replace it. At which point I'll get a Rambo to go along
    with my Heron.

    Seems I've been assimilated.

    Steve Bailey
     
  4. There was a very similar discussion on the internet-BOB mailing list within the past month,
    comparing the Rambouillet, Heron (Touring model -- I realize you're looking for a Road) and a Gunnar
    model. Maybe it will be helpful. See:

    www.bikelist.org/pipermail/internet-bob

    and search for "Heron" and "Rambouillet" (typed like that, as a string) on the internet-bob list.

    Joe Kubera
     
  5. Jon Isaacs

    Jon Isaacs Guest

    >The Rambouillet seems to take advantage of the newer Shimano Ultegra longer reach dual pivot
    >brakes, which weren't available when the Heron was conceived.

    47-57 mm reach RX-100's were available or at least Sheldon Brown has been carrying them for quite
    some time. When a friend bought a Heron, I had already put set of the 57mm reach dual pivot RX-100
    brakes on my old Specialized Sequoia.

    I think it is silly to build a non racing road bike that uses short reach brakes, there is no
    advantage as far as i can see and the inability to fit true 28 mm width tires and fenders is a major
    disadvantage.

    I was a bit surprised to see something from Grant Peterson that used short reach brakes.

    Jon Isaacs
     
  6. Steve

    Steve Guest

    "Jon Isaacs" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > 47-57 mm reach RX-100's were available or at least Sheldon Brown has been carrying them for quite
    > some time. When a friend bought a Heron, I had
    already
    > put set of the 57mm reach dual pivot RX-100 brakes on my old Specialized Sequoia.
    >
    > I think it is silly to build a non racing road bike that uses short reach brakes, there is no
    > advantage as far as i can see and the inability to fit
    true
    > 28 mm width tires and fenders is a major disadvantage.
    >
    > I was a bit surprised to see something from Grant Peterson that used short reach brakes.
    >
    > Jon Isaacs

    All true, but my experience with my Heron is that the 47-57 RX100's don't use the full length of the
    pad slot, thus there's less clearance for a fender/large tire combo. I suspect this may be a slight
    design change on my particular Heron and I also suspect that Grant paid more attention to getting
    the placement of the brake mounts more precise on the Rambouillet then on the Heron. It's actually
    not too bad on the front - I run Ruffy Tuffy's and could maybe get a fender in, but I have little
    clearance in the rear, which surprised me when I built the bike.

    Steve Bailey
     
  7. Todd Kuzma

    Todd Kuzma Guest

    Mark H. wrote:

    > I've read the respective websites. Does anyone have opinion/experience on the performance
    > differences, or otherwise, between a Heron Road and a Rambouillet? Rivendell says there's no
    > performance difference between the Romulus and Rambouillet, that's another consideration.

    Mark,

    Your choice will probably depend on how you intend to use the bike. The Heron Road is the closest to
    a racing bike. In fact, it is quite similar to the racing bikes of the early 80s and earlier. There
    is a reason folks collect those old racers. Their geometries are not just well-suited for racing but
    also for recreational riding. This was before the fashion became placing your handlebars 5" below
    your saddle.

    The Rambouillet is more of a sport-tourer. Handling will be more relaxed. You can fit a bit larger
    tire and/or fenders.

    Don't forget the Heron Touring. It takes the Rambouillet concept one more step: a bit more relaxed
    and more tire clearance. I use a Touring as my everyday bike, and I love
    it. Unlike some bikes built for loaded touring, it doesn't have that driving-a-bus feel when riding
    without gear. It's probably the most versatile of the bunch.

    Also, there is the Atlantis. It is like the Heron Touring, but has clearance for fat mountain bike
    tires. This is useful for trail riding and "expedition" touring where you may come across unpaved
    roads. The trade-off to the tire clearance is a bit more difficulty fitting some cranks. In order to
    get the tire clearance, the chainstays are wider. This decreases the room available for a triple
    crank without using a longer BB spindle. So, it fits the type of cranks used for loaded touring
    quite well (something like a 44-24-22) but may not fit a conventional "road triple" (something like
    a 50-40-30).

    Of course, there is always the emotional aspect. If you like lugs, these are the frames for you!
    Beyond that, you have to decide how the appearance of each hits you. Some folks love the
    Rambouillet orange, and I'm sure that we have lost some sales from that. We have also gained some
    sales from folks who just couldn't take that color. It's kind of a love-it-or-hate-it color. Same
    with the Atlantis. I like the cream head tube and lug window fills, but some find it to be a
    little too much. The Heron colors are a bit more subdued, and you have a choice of four.

    Something for everyone!

    Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles LaSalle, IL 815-223-1776 http://www.heronbicycles.com
     
  8. Todd Kuzma

    Todd Kuzma Guest

    Steve wrote:

    > The Heron is made by Waterford (when last I checked), which is as fine a steel bike builder you
    > can find, thus no issues with build quality.

    Yep. Still made by Waterford.

    > It used to represent a design by Grant for a lower cost version of a typical Rivendell, but is now
    > changed a bit with a slightly steeper seat tube and a longer TT, as example (in the 56).

    The geometry is the same as always. The changes we made were from horizontal to vertical dropouts,
    531OS to a double-butted cromoly with the same diameters and wall thickesses, and the addition of
    two new colors.

    The old website did list some of the frame measurements incorrectly, however. The geometry chart on
    the current site is correct for Herons of both eras.

    > The Heron now comes in 4 colors, but seemingly has a plainer paint and design. The Rambouillet
    > comes in orange with cream head tube and other embellishments, and is a very nice design to the
    > eye - if you like orange.

    Manufacturing in Japan is a bit less expensive so Rivendell is able to have a bit fancier paint job.
    Paint quality is comparable. However, building overseas is also a little less flexible so lead times
    are longer and it is harder to offer more than one color. I'll call it an even split. I love the
    colors of the Rambouillet and Atlantis, but not everyone does.

    > The Rambouillet has longer chainstays and a slacker angle HT (in 56 sizes) and probably a longer
    > wheel base. I would guess that the Rambouillet also has more clearance for larger tires, as I know
    > that despite how the Heron was marketed a few years back, I would be hard pressed to get a tire
    > larger then 28mm with fenders on mine.

    The Rambouillet fits well between the Heron Road and Touring geometry-wise. The Heron Road is a bit
    quicker handling. The Heron Touring a bit more relaxed. You also get more tire clearance as you go
    from the Road to Rambouillet to Touring.

    By the way, the Heron Road is designed to use short-reach calipers with the brake pads near the
    bottom of the slot. So, it maximizes the clearance available with any given brake. With modern
    dual-pivot brakes, I can fit true 700x28 tires, but fenders would be a tight fit without notching
    them at the caliper arms. With short-reach single-pivot brakes, you can fit most 700x32 tires and
    some 700x35. 70x28 with fenders should be no problem.

    Todd Kuzma

    Heron Bicycles LaSalle, IL 815-223-1776 http://www.heronbicycles.com
     
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