Heron vs. Rivendell?

[Mark H.]

I've read the respective websites. Does anyone have opinion/experience on the performance
differences, or otherwise, between a Heron Road and a Rambouillet? Rivendell says there's no
performance difference between the Romulus and Rambouillet, that's another consideration.

Mark

 

[Twobooglie]

Both the Heron and the Rambouillet (and the Romulus for that matter) would be great choices for
riders looking for a good, solid, all-around versatile road bike with a comfortable riding position.
And all are beautiful to look at with great lugwork.

The Heron was either designed by Rivendell's Grant Petersen, or designed with his input. In fact,
Herons used to be marketed and sold by Rivendell. The performance of the bike should be very similar
to the Ramboulliet. Both are designed as a good all-around road bike with room for wider tires and
fenders. The geometry probably isn't all that different between the two, but the websites should be
able to shed more light on that.

I guess you could make your choice based on the price, or on the somewhat more emotional basis of
which one you like the look of better - or color.

My own personal slant on this? I have a Rivendell "sport-touring" bike which is very similar to the
Rambouillet (virtually identical geometry), but just a tiny bit fancier in the lugs. I love it. And
if you get the Rambouillet, you get slightly more "deluxe" paint versus the other choices (as long
as you like orange - which I do).

>I've read the respective websites. Does anyone have opinion/experience on the performance
>differences, or otherwise, between a Heron Road and a Rambouillet? Rivendell says there's no
>performance difference between the Romulus and Rambouillet, that's another consideration.
>
>Mark

 

[Steve]

"Mark H." <[email protected]> wrote in message

> I've read the respective websites. Does anyone have opinion/experience on the performance
> differences, or otherwise, between a Heron Road and a Rambouillet? Rivendell says there's no
> performance difference between the Romulus and Rambouillet, that's another consideration.
>
> Mark

The Heron is made by Waterford (when last I checked), which is as fine a steel bike builder you can
find, thus no issues with build quality. It used to represent a design by Grant for a lower cost
version of a typical Rivendell, but is now changed a bit with a slightly steeper seat tube and a
longer TT, as example (in the 56). The Rambouillet is made in Japan by Toyo, also to Grants design
and spec's.

The Heron now comes in 4 colors, but seemingly has a plainer paint and design. The Rambouillet comes
in orange with cream head tube and other embellishments, and is a very nice design to the eye - if
you like orange.

The Rambouillet has longer chainstays and a slacker angle HT (in 56 sizes) and probably a longer
wheel base. I would guess that the Rambouillet also has more clearance for larger tires, as I know
that despite how the Heron was marketed a few years back, I would be hard pressed to get a tire
larger then 28mm with fenders on mine. The Rambouillet seems to take advantage of the newer Shimano
Ultegra longer reach dual pivot brakes, which weren't available when the Heron was conceived.

I would guess that the Rambouillet is a slightly less quick handling bike, but also more stable ?,
due to the different geometry and angles. In essence, the Rambouillet is a more laid back version of
the Heron, which seems a bit more like a typical road racer.

In a few weeks I will find out if Klein is going to replace under warranty my 7 year old Quantum
who's seat tube pinch bolt assembly cracked. I don't really want a replacement at this point -
hating the '03 models, and may take an older '01/'02 if offered, or may get nothing at which
point I have permission from the SO to replace it. At which point I'll get a Rambo to go along
with my Heron.

Seems I've been assimilated.

Steve Bailey

 

[Joseph Kubera]

There was a very similar discussion on the internet-BOB mailing list within the past month,
comparing the Rambouillet, Heron (Touring model -- I realize you're looking for a Road) and a Gunnar
model. Maybe it will be helpful. See:

www.bikelist.org/pipermail/internet-bob

and search for "Heron" and "Rambouillet" (typed like that, as a string) on the internet-bob list.

Joe Kubera

 

[Jon Isaacs]

>The Rambouillet seems to take advantage of the newer Shimano Ultegra longer reach dual pivot
>brakes, which weren't available when the Heron was conceived.

47-57 mm reach RX-100's were available or at least Sheldon Brown has been carrying them for quite
some time. When a friend bought a Heron, I had already put set of the 57mm reach dual pivot RX-100
brakes on my old Specialized Sequoia.

I think it is silly to build a non racing road bike that uses short reach brakes, there is no
advantage as far as i can see and the inability to fit true 28 mm width tires and fenders is a major
disadvantage.

I was a bit surprised to see something from Grant Peterson that used short reach brakes.

Jon Isaacs

 

[Steve]

"Jon Isaacs" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> 47-57 mm reach RX-100's were available or at least Sheldon Brown has been carrying them for quite
> some time. When a friend bought a Heron, I had
already
> put set of the 57mm reach dual pivot RX-100 brakes on my old Specialized Sequoia.
>
> I think it is silly to build a non racing road bike that uses short reach brakes, there is no
> advantage as far as i can see and the inability to fit
true
> 28 mm width tires and fenders is a major disadvantage.
>
> I was a bit surprised to see something from Grant Peterson that used short reach brakes.
>
> Jon Isaacs

All true, but my experience with my Heron is that the 47-57 RX100's don't use the full length of the
pad slot, thus there's less clearance for a fender/large tire combo. I suspect this may be a slight
design change on my particular Heron and I also suspect that Grant paid more attention to getting
the placement of the brake mounts more precise on the Rambouillet then on the Heron. It's actually
not too bad on the front - I run Ruffy Tuffy's and could maybe get a fender in, but I have little
clearance in the rear, which surprised me when I built the bike.

Steve Bailey

 

[Todd Kuzma]

Mark H. wrote:

> I've read the respective websites. Does anyone have opinion/experience on the performance
> differences, or otherwise, between a Heron Road and a Rambouillet? Rivendell says there's no
> performance difference between the Romulus and Rambouillet, that's another consideration.

Mark,

Your choice will probably depend on how you intend to use the bike. The Heron Road is the closest to
a racing bike. In fact, it is quite similar to the racing bikes of the early 80s and earlier. There
is a reason folks collect those old racers. Their geometries are not just well-suited for racing but
also for recreational riding. This was before the fashion became placing your handlebars 5" below
your saddle.

The Rambouillet is more of a sport-tourer. Handling will be more relaxed. You can fit a bit larger
tire and/or fenders.

Don't forget the Heron Touring. It takes the Rambouillet concept one more step: a bit more relaxed
and more tire clearance. I use a Touring as my everyday bike, and I love
it. Unlike some bikes built for loaded touring, it doesn't have that driving-a-bus feel when riding
without gear. It's probably the most versatile of the bunch.

Also, there is the Atlantis. It is like the Heron Touring, but has clearance for fat mountain bike
tires. This is useful for trail riding and "expedition" touring where you may come across unpaved
roads. The trade-off to the tire clearance is a bit more difficulty fitting some cranks. In order to
get the tire clearance, the chainstays are wider. This decreases the room available for a triple
crank without using a longer BB spindle. So, it fits the type of cranks used for loaded touring
quite well (something like a 44-24-22) but may not fit a conventional "road triple" (something like
a 50-40-30).

Of course, there is always the emotional aspect. If you like lugs, these are the frames for you!
Beyond that, you have to decide how the appearance of each hits you. Some folks love the
Rambouillet orange, and I'm sure that we have lost some sales from that. We have also gained some
sales from folks who just couldn't take that color. It's kind of a love-it-or-hate-it color. Same
with the Atlantis. I like the cream head tube and lug window fills, but some find it to be a
little too much. The Heron colors are a bit more subdued, and you have a choice of four.

Something for everyone!

Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles LaSalle, IL 815-223-1776 http://www.heronbicycles.com

 

[Todd Kuzma]

Steve wrote:

> The Heron is made by Waterford (when last I checked), which is as fine a steel bike builder you
> can find, thus no issues with build quality.

Yep. Still made by Waterford.

> It used to represent a design by Grant for a lower cost version of a typical Rivendell, but is now
> changed a bit with a slightly steeper seat tube and a longer TT, as example (in the 56).

The geometry is the same as always. The changes we made were from horizontal to vertical dropouts,
531OS to a double-butted cromoly with the same diameters and wall thickesses, and the addition of
two new colors.

The old website did list some of the frame measurements incorrectly, however. The geometry chart on
the current site is correct for Herons of both eras.

> The Heron now comes in 4 colors, but seemingly has a plainer paint and design. The Rambouillet
> comes in orange with cream head tube and other embellishments, and is a very nice design to the
> eye - if you like orange.

Manufacturing in Japan is a bit less expensive so Rivendell is able to have a bit fancier paint job.
Paint quality is comparable. However, building overseas is also a little less flexible so lead times
are longer and it is harder to offer more than one color. I'll call it an even split. I love the
colors of the Rambouillet and Atlantis, but not everyone does.

> The Rambouillet has longer chainstays and a slacker angle HT (in 56 sizes) and probably a longer
> wheel base. I would guess that the Rambouillet also has more clearance for larger tires, as I know
> that despite how the Heron was marketed a few years back, I would be hard pressed to get a tire
> larger then 28mm with fenders on mine.

The Rambouillet fits well between the Heron Road and Touring geometry-wise. The Heron Road is a bit
quicker handling. The Heron Touring a bit more relaxed. You also get more tire clearance as you go
from the Road to Rambouillet to Touring.

By the way, the Heron Road is designed to use short-reach calipers with the brake pads near the
bottom of the slot. So, it maximizes the clearance available with any given brake. With modern
dual-pivot brakes, I can fit true 700x28 tires, but fenders would be a tight fit without notching
them at the caliper arms. With short-reach single-pivot brakes, you can fit most 700x32 tires and
some 700x35. 70x28 with fenders should be no problem.

Todd Kuzma

Heron Bicycles LaSalle, IL 815-223-1776 http://www.heronbicycles.com