Hey John!!! (Vaccination site)

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Peter Moran, Jan 25, 2004.

  1. Peter Moran

    Peter Moran Guest

    Tags:


  2. David Wright

    David Wright Guest

    In article <[email protected]rks.com.au>,
    Peter Moran <[email protected]> wrote:
    >John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top billing for making claims their
    >own purported evidence contradicts.
    >
    >http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html

    Peter, this is a wonderful site! It's really handy to have all our favorite liars conveniently
    dissected in one place.

    Interestingly, it seems even the odious John has occasionally cleaned up misstatements on the
    whale.to site. I wouldn't have thought he had it in him, but I'm glad to know I was wrong.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always
    correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
    shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
     
  3. Jan

    Jan Guest

    >Subject: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date: 1/24/2004
    >11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]
    >02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au>
    >
    >John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top billing for making claims their
    >own purported evidence contradicts.
    >
    >http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    >
    >
    >Peter Moran

    Thankks once again for showing us the tactics of organized medicine.

    You know, they stoned and killed Jesus Christ, for telling the truth.

    Jan
     
  4. Jan

    Jan Guest

    >Subject: Re: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site)
    >From: [email protected] (David Wright)
    >Date: 1/25/2004 8:20 AM Pacific Standard Time
    >Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >
    >In article <[email protected]rks.com.au>, Peter
    >Moran <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top billing for making claims their
    >>own purported evidence contradicts.
    >>
    >>http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    >
    >Peter, this is a wonderful site!

    Yes indeedy, and once again shows the purpose of the *gang*.

    Jan
     
  5. Peter Moran

    Peter Moran Guest

    "Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >Subject: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date: 1/24/2004
    > >11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    >
    ><[email protected]rks.com.au
    >
    > >
    > >John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top
    billing
    > >for making claims their own purported evidence contradicts.
    > >
    > >http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    > >
    > >
    > >Peter Moran
    >
    > Thankks once again for showing us the tactics of organized medicine.
    >
    > You know, they stoned and killed Jesus Christ, for telling the truth.
    >
    > Jan

    They probably beat their wives and abuse cjildren too. And who better to run the international drug
    trade? Keep it up Jan. You parody yourself almost daily.

    Peter Moran
     
  6. Mark Probert

    Mark Probert Guest

    "Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >Subject: Re: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: [email protected] (David Wright) Date:
    > >1/25/2004 8:20 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    > ><[email protected]>
    > >
    > >In article
    >
    ><[email protected]rks.com.au ,
    > >Peter Moran <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >>John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top
    billing
    > >>for making claims their own purported evidence contradicts.
    > >>
    > >>http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    > >
    > >Peter, this is a wonderful site!
    >
    > Yes indeedy, and once again shows the purpose of the *gang*.

    Purpose: Dissemination of fact based information and to identify sources of dangerous and erroneous
    information.
     
  7. David Wright

    David Wright Guest

    In article <%[email protected]>,
    Mark Probert <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >"Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> >Subject: Re: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: [email protected] (David Wright) Date:
    >> >1/25/2004 8:20 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    >> ><[email protected]>
    >> >
    >> >In article
    >>
    >><[email protected]rks.com.au ,
    >> >Peter Moran <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >>John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top
    >billing
    >> >>for making claims their own purported evidence contradicts.
    >> >>
    >> >>http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    >> >
    >> >Peter, this is a wonderful site!
    >>
    >> Yes indeedy, and once again shows the purpose of the *gang*.
    >
    >Purpose: Dissemination of fact based information and to identify sources of dangerous and erroneous
    >information.

    We're a sinister group, no question about it. How dare we disseminate facts and explode myths?

    By the way, I'm now part of a gang? I'm flattered. Do we have colors or leather jackets or anything
    like that? And someone will have to teach me the secret handshake.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always
    correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
    shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
     
  8. "Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >Subject: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date: 1/24/2004
    > >11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    >
    ><[email protected]rks.com.au
    >
    > >
    > >John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top
    billing
    > >for making claims their own purported evidence contradicts.
    > >
    > >http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    > >
    > >
    > >Peter Moran
    >
    > Thankks once again for showing us the tactics of organized medicine.
    >
    > You know, they stoned and killed Jesus Christ, for telling the truth.
    >

    Is that you, Mel?
     
  9. Mark

    Mark Guest

    [email protected] (Jan) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > >Subject: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date: 1/24/2004
    > >11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]
    > >02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au>
    > >
    > >John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top billing for making claims their
    > >own purported evidence contradicts.
    > >
    > >http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    > >
    > >
    > >Peter Moran
    >
    > Thankks once again for showing us the tactics of organized medicine.
    >
    > You know, they stoned and killed Jesus Christ, for telling the truth.
    >
    > Jan

    I didn't know that EOM stoned Jesus and killed him. I thought is was the Romans, and I thought he
    was crucified. I'll have to let my Sunday school teachers know that they're wrong.

    Mark, MD
     
  10. Rich

    Rich Guest

    On 26 Jan 2004 10:19:11 -0800, [email protected] (Mark) wrote:

    >[email protected] (Jan) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >> >Subject: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date: 1/24/2004
    >> >11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]
    >> >02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au>
    >> >
    >> >John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top billing for making claims their
    >> >own purported evidence contradicts.
    >> >
    >> >http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >Peter Moran
    >>
    >> Thankks once again for showing us the tactics of organized medicine.
    >>
    >> You know, they stoned and killed Jesus Christ, for telling the truth.
    >>
    >> Jan
    >
    >
    >I didn't know that EOM stoned Jesus and killed him. I thought is was the Romans, and I thought he
    >was crucified. I'll have to let my Sunday school teachers know that they're wrong.

    Well considering that Jan Drew thinks that "Jesus was there when God wrote the Ten Commandments" I
    would be circumspect about relying on Jan's biblical insights for accuracy.

    Actually though, I may be wrong, but I think Jan was referring to the evil organized jew boys
    (EOJB). Ask Jan and she will tell you how the Jews have taken over EOM.

    Jan believes that since Jews killed JC that generally (even today) lying comes second nature to
    Jews. She also agrees with Debbee that Hitler had the right idea about exterminating 6 million Jews.
    But Jan is not an antisemite. She is a good Christian who loves everyone. She even loves Jew Boys as
    is obvious from her posts here on mha.

    Aloha,

    Rich
    >
    >Mark, MD

    ------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------

    The best defense to logic is ignorance.
     
  11. [email protected] (Jan) wrote:

    >>Subject: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date: 1/24/2004
    >>11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]
    >>02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au>
    >>
    >>John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top billing for making claims their
    >>own purported evidence contradicts.
    >>
    >>http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    >>
    >>
    >>Peter Moran
    >
    >Thankks once again for showing us the tactics of organized medicine.
    >
    >You know, they stoned and killed Jesus Christ, for telling the truth.
    >
    >Jan

    "They stoned ... Jesus"? References please.

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 http://www.ratbags.com/loon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
     
  12. "Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >Subject: Re: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date:
    > >1/25/2004 11:11 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    >
    ><[email protected]rks.com.au
    >
    > >
    > >
    > >"Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >> >Subject: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date: 1/24/2004
    > >> >11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    > >>
    >
    >><[email protected]rks.com.a
    u
    > >>
    > >> >
    > >> >John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top
    > >billing
    > >> >for making claims their own purported evidence contradicts.
    > >> >
    > >> >http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >Peter Moran
    > >>
    > >> Thankks once again for showing us the tactics of organized medicine.
    > >>
    > >> You know, they stoned and killed Jesus Christ, for telling the truth.
    > >>
    > >> Jan
    > >
    > >They probably beat their wives and abuse cjildren too. And who better to run the international
    > >drug trade? Keep it up Jan. You parody yourself almost daily.
    > >
    > >Peter Moran
    >
    > No, I tell the truth. You can't deal with it.

    Truth? You would not know the truth if it were inserted into a cleanse.

    You would not know the truth even if we used a high power zapper.
     
  13. "Peter Bowditch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (Jan) wrote:
    >
    > >>Subject: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date: 1/24/2004
    > >>11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    >
    >><[email protected]rks.com.a
    u>
    > >>
    > >>John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top
    billing
    > >>for making claims their own purported evidence contradicts.
    > >>
    > >>http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>Peter Moran
    > >
    > >Thankks once again for showing us the tactics of organized medicine.
    > >
    > >You know, they stoned and killed Jesus Christ, for telling the truth.
    > >
    > >Jan
    >
    > "They stoned ... Jesus"? References please.

    Peter, you back down under yet? If so, when wil you update the web pages?
     
  14. Carabelli

    Carabelli Guest

    "Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >Subject: Re: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: Peter Bowditch [email protected] Date:
    > >1/26/2004 1:27 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <ld1b10p[email protected]>
    > >
    > >[email protected] (Jan) wrote:
    > >
    > >>>Subject: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date: 1/24/2004
    > >>>11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    > >
    >
    >>><[email protected]rks.com.
    au>
    > >>>
    > >>>John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top
    billing
    > >>>for making claims their own purported evidence contradicts.
    > >>>
    > >>>http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>Peter Moran
    > >>
    > >>Thankks once again for showing us the tactics of organized medicine.
    > >>
    > >>You know, they stoned and killed Jesus Christ, for telling the truth.
    > >>
    > >>Jan
    > >
    > >"They stoned ... Jesus"? References please.
    >
    > Look it up in your bible and learn what examples are.
    >
    > Jan

    Would that be the version published by Marvel?

    carabelli
     
  15. Mark

    Mark Guest

    [email protected] (Jan) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > >Subject: Re: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: [email protected] (Mark) Date: 1/26/2004
    > >10:19 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    > >
    > >[email protected] (Jan) wrote in message news:<[email protected]m29.aol.com>...
    > >> >Subject: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date: 1/24/2004
    > >> >11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    > >>
    > >><[email protected]rks.com.au>
    > >> >
    > >> >John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top billing for making claims
    > >> >their own purported evidence contradicts.
    > >> >
    > >> >http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >Peter Moran
    > >>
    > >> Thankks once again for showing us the tactics of organized medicine.
    > >>
    > >> You know, they stoned and killed Jesus Christ, for telling the truth.
    > >>
    > >> Jan
    > >
    > >
    > >I didn't know that EOM stoned Jesus and killed him.
    >
    > Sorry you can't folow an example.
    >
    > > I thought is was the Romans, and I thought he was crucified. I'll have to let my Sunday school
    > > teachers know that they're wrong.
    > >
    > >Mark, MD
    >
    > They probably are already aleerted to your, natural pugnacious tendency.
    >
    > Perhaps, they could help you with that.
    >
    > Jan

    Perhaps, you could, tell me where, it says, in the Bible, where Jesus, was stoned, to death...

    Thanks.

    Mark, MD
     
  16. [email protected] (Jan) wrote:

    >>Subject: Re: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: Peter Bowditch [email protected] Date:
    >>1/26/2004 1:27 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >>
    >>[email protected] (Jan) wrote:
    >>
    >>>>Subject: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date: 1/24/2004
    >>>>11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    >>
    >>>><[email protected]rks.com.au>
    >>>>
    >>>>John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top billing for making claims their
    >>>>own purported evidence contradicts.
    >>>>
    >>>>http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Peter Moran
    >>>
    >>>Thankks once again for showing us the tactics of organized medicine.
    >>>
    >>>You know, they stoned and killed Jesus Christ, for telling the truth.
    >>>
    >>>Jan
    >>
    >>"They stoned ... Jesus"? References please.
    >
    >Look it up in your bible and learn what examples are.
    >
    >Jan

    The only place that the words "stoned" and "Jesus" appear together in the New Testament are in
    Acts 7:59, which says: "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus,
    receive my spirit".

    Jesus was scourged and then crucified. Stoning had nothing to do with it.

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 http://www.ratbags.com/loon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
     
  17. "Mark ProbertJanuary 26, 2004" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >
    >"Peter Bowditch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> [email protected] (Jan) wrote:
    >>
    >> >>Subject: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date: 1/24/2004
    >> >>11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    >>
    >>><[email protected]rks.com.a
    >u>
    >> >>
    >> >>John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top
    >billing
    >> >>for making claims their own purported evidence contradicts.
    >> >>
    >> >>http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >>Peter Moran
    >> >
    >> >Thankks once again for showing us the tactics of organized medicine.
    >> >
    >> >You know, they stoned and killed Jesus Christ, for telling the truth.
    >> >
    >> >Jan
    >>
    >> "They stoned ... Jesus"? References please.
    >
    >Peter, you back down under yet? If so, when wil you update the web pages?
    >
    >

    Back home and almost back to normal diurnal rhythm. The Millenium Project will be updated in about
    four hours from now, but I have to go to see an Evil Organised Doctor to get an Evil Organised
    Xray because I may have broken a bone in my foot. Unfortunately, I will probably have to rely on
    some of the enormous percentage of conventional medicine which has not been proven by double-blind
    clinical trials.

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 http://www.ratbags.com/loon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
     
  18. "Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >Subject: Re: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: Peter Bowditch [email protected] Date:
    > >1/26/2004 7:40 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    > >
    > >[email protected] (Jan) wrote:
    > >
    > >>>Subject: Re: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: Peter Bowditch [email protected] Date:
    > >>>1/26/2004 1:27 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    > >>><[email protected]>
    > >>>
    > >>>[email protected] (Jan) wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>>>Subject: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date:
    > >>>>>1/24/2004 11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    > >>>
    > >
    > >>>>><[email protected]rks.
    > com.au>
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top
    > >billing
    > >>>>>for making claims their own purported evidence contradicts.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>Peter Moran
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Thankks once again for showing us the tactics of organized medicine.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>You know, they stoned and killed Jesus Christ, for telling the truth.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Jan
    > >>>
    > >>>"They stoned ... Jesus"? References please.
    > >>
    > >>Look it up in your bible and learn what examples are.
    > >>
    > >>Jan
    > >
    > >The only place that the words "stoned" and "Jesus" appear together in the New Testament are in
    > >Acts 7:59, which says: "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus,
    > >receive my spirit".
    > >
    > >Jesus was scourged and then crucified. Stoning had nothing to do with it.
    >
    > http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/mb-ston.htm
    >
    LOL! That was written by an atheist, Jan!! Whassamatta, couldn't find it in thuh Buybull?
     
  19. [email protected] (Jan) wrote:

    >>Subject: Re: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: Peter Bowditch [email protected] Date:
    >>1/26/2004 7:40 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >>
    >>[email protected] (Jan) wrote:
    >>
    >>>>Subject: Re: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: Peter Bowditch [email protected] Date:
    >>>>1/26/2004 1:27 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >>>>
    >>>>[email protected] (Jan) wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>>Subject: Hey John!!! (Vaccination site) From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date: 1/24/2004
    >>>>>>11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    >>>>
    >>
    >>>>>><[email protected]rks.
    >com.au>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>John's whaleto site gets prominence here. He and Mercola get top
    >>billing
    >>>>>>for making claims their own purported evidence contradicts.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>http://pages.ivillage.com/vaccinesupport/antivaxsites.html
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Peter Moran
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Thankks once again for showing us the tactics of organized medicine.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>You know, they stoned and killed Jesus Christ, for telling the truth.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Jan
    >>>>
    >>>>"They stoned ... Jesus"? References please.
    >>>
    >>>Look it up in your bible and learn what examples are.
    >>>
    >>>Jan
    >>
    >>The only place that the words "stoned" and "Jesus" appear together in the New Testament are in
    >>Acts 7:59, which says: "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus,
    >>receive my spirit".
    >>
    >>Jesus was scourged and then crucified. Stoning had nothing to do with it.
    >
    >http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/mb-ston.htm
    >
    >Jan

    This is freakin' priceless.

    Jan sends us to Shy David's web site to read stuff by Robert Sheaffer about how Jesus was not
    crucified. Is this the third sign today that Jan has come over to the dark side of the force? Or is
    it further evidence that she simply doesn't read what she posts?

    The authority whom Jan has cited on the method of Jesus' death is a CSICOP Fellow, a regular
    contributor to Skeptical Inquirer, and runs a web site called The Debunker's Domain where he
    describes himself as "Skeptical to the Max". See http://www.debunker.com

    I quote again from Robert's site: Remember: a thing cannot be "debunked" unless it is filled with
    bunk to begin with!

    Keep up the good work, Jan.

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 http://www.ratbags.com/loon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
     
  20. Rich

    Rich Guest

    On 26 Jan 2004 19:10:24 -0800, [email protected] (Mark) wrote:

    >
    >Perhaps, you could, tell me where, it says, in the Bible, where Jesus, was stoned, to death...

    Maybe the problem was that Jan was "stoned" when she read the bible. It sure would explain why she
    *also* thinks that Jesus was there when God wrote the Ten Commandments. OTOH I think that Jan is
    perpetually "stoned":)))

    "One toke over the line sweet Jesus, one toke over the line. Sittin' down there in a railway station
    one toke over the line".

    Aloha,

    Rich
    >
    >Thanks.
    >
    >Mark, MD

    ------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------

    The best defense to logic is ignorance.
     
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