Hey Lance



jhuskey said:
I won't ask where you found the photo.My mind is filled with responses right now but I will sit back and hope this thread doesn't turn any more hostile than it already has.


yeah, about that, my fault. i was besides myself with angst yesterday so if you want to go and delete those posts of mine, i'd gladly accept your decision to do just that.
 
kjaf said:
Agree with most of it, except the last part. Some of the last statement I totally agree with, but it has been proves expecially in the NBA that that the fans are mostly white even though the players are mostly black. Even though I agree for the americans to like a sport, an american has to be on top. I still think Lance did a helluva job in getting cycling a name in the US, how long it will last idk.

You have a fair point there although obviously I was trying to generalise and when you do that you do pick up anomolies.
What you have done there though in fact has highlighted another major reason cycling is different.
For cycling to be polular there has to be heroes and tales of human sacrifice and endeavour. People have to do things us mere mortals could only dream of or at least realise reaistically what they can do is far beyond our physical capabilities.
In this way cycling is q very individual sport and no doubt for Lance coming back from cancer and beating the odds added undoubtedly to world interest. While cycling may not be popular people do recognise it is a supreme endurance sport in fact the whole modus operandis of the Tour de France is to present a situation where one man will conquer and others will crack.
There can be no other sport recognised to be a tougher test of will not even marathon running.
Getting back to your point in cycling there are no local teams to support. No Green Bay Packers vs Dallas Cowboys etc.
Yes the LA Lakers may have black stars but the local demographic will be white supporters as you said. Cycling will never have a team element. Even in Europe noone really cares wether Garmin Beat Euskatel in a team competition in fact I don't even know wether race organisers even keep track. Its allways been a sport for individuals.
 
fastalarms said:
There can be no other sport recognised to be a tougher test of will not even marathon running.

Really? So, cycling--or the TdF--is the test of will non plus ultra, eh?

Even in Europe noone really cares wether Garmin Beat Euskatel in a team competition in fact I don't even know wether race organisers even keep track. Its allways been a sport for individuals.

That would explain why every tour has a team classification and why the UCI also has a team classification.....must be because no one cares about the team.

Cycling is a team sport, not an individual sport. If Alberto Contador were at the TdF all by his lonesome, he wouldn't win, and he wouldn't have won what he has.
 
alienator said:
1-Really? So, cycling--or the TdF--is the test of will non plus ultra, eh?

2-That would explain why every tour has a team classification and why the UCI also has a team classification.....must be because no one cares about the team.

3-Cycling is a team sport, not an individual sport. If Alberto Contador were at the TdF all by his lonesome, he wouldn't win, and he wouldn't have won what he has.

re your points
1 - Yes that is my opinion. There are other tests of human endurance of course. Personally I can't think of any other regulated sport that knowingly pushes its competitors harder but I am open to suggestions
2. Of course the UCI keep team points but the point I was making was that as a fan noone really cares. There are no daily prizes for the team getting the most points the Jerseys are all individual and the podium is for individuals.
3 Cycling is a team sport of course I never said it wasn't.Individual riders need the support of their team but the media focus and the interest of the fans is all about individual riders. In all my years of discussing the TDF with other fans I have had many conversations about who dropped who and where and how will this guy do or didn't he do well , but strangely I have never had a conversation based around a particular teams performance not even on the team time trial stages.
 
and the individual winner of a cycling event, especially in the Tour De France, gets the biggest bonus, not the entire team.

such as it is when Kobe Bryant gets the mvp awards. he is by far the standout player, the go to guy, the leader on that team as Lance has always been on his.

as a rider myself, i don't pay much attention to anyone else on teams, only the big names who are big names because they lead.
 
Wow. "No one really cares." That's a pretty definitive statement. As such, it must be true in all cases, because no one really cares. There are no Brits that are Team Sky fans. There are no Spaniards that bleed red and yellow for Spanish teams.

No one really cares.

Obviously, cycling fans are super duper easy to categorize.
 
i never said that no one cares about teams, it's more than obvious that you do Alienator and i'm sure you of all people could show stats for every single pro rider that ever lived, i just admit that i don't care.
 
fastalarms said:
The fundemental key reason a sport reaches popularity in the USA is down to a few ground rules that unfortunately cycling doesn't cover.

1. Easy access to a seat and a cola and corn dog stand
Wether it's Basketball , Ice Hockey , Baseball , American Football or even NASCAR the ability for fans to sit down and gorge themselves is an absolute prerequisite. Watching a sport purely on TV or travelling abroad to see a quick glimpse just doesn't cut the mustard. It has to be a sit down and eat experience just like going to the movies.

2. It has to be played out in the USA
All the top rated American sports are played right there in America.
How many American fans would attend or be interested in the Superbowl if it was played out in a Stadium in Venice or Barcelona?


3. The best competitors have to be Americans
Ok having Lance is great but Contador-Schleck-Basso etc are complete unknowns outside the USA to all but a few. A few more Yanks scrapping for the top places would definately help

4.The competitors have to have a relevance to the fans.
NASCAR racers have to be at least partly rednecks and top Basketball and Football players have to be Black. As a Texan Lance may have drawn huge support if he had been a Rodeo star but a cyclist doesn't build up a base of home fans to start the ball rolling.

These are but just a few of the reasons why cycling will struggle to lift off in the USA. Even in Europe cycling is not a huge sport in comparison to Football and it is barely on the radar at all in England.

Cycling is more a sport for those who have taken an interest because as leisure or racing cyclists themselves they can appreciate the effort.

Good thoughts.

but according to your number 1 reason would mean that Velodrome racing would be watched a lot since you have a captive audience and you could sell the junk food. But how does golf attract a lot of people to the majors to watch? You have to walk the entire green to keep watching your favorite golfer; and where's the nearest junk food stand?

Number 2, then why not just create a bicycle sports league, like football etc, and compete here in the states along with rideoffs (playoffs) complete with finals to see who's the best in America.

3, yes we need more yanks, would a American bicycle league (ABL) do that?

4, Quite true, but one wonders if there was an ABL would interest get generated? When basketball, baseball, and football first started there wasn't a whole lot of interest in either, and the players weren't payed squat. Fortunantely in todays world even if the ABL couldn't pay a lot initially, endorsements very well could make a few very rich.

When I had comcast cable tv they wouldn't even show the highlights of the tour, Verizon at least shows a condensed version of the tour, newspaper is void of any tour reports, and I haven't been able to hear anything on radio news either. There's very little publicity here, you have to follow it the internet. And you can't find nothing concerning races in America except the internet. Again publicity needs to be generated.

Personally I think, though I could be wrong, that even if you had the all 4 of your objections eliminated the sport still would not go anywhere here. We would rather watch golf...snore!
 
jhuskey said:
I won't ask where you found the photo.My mind is filled with responses right now but I will sit back and hope this thread doesn't turn any more hostile than it already has.
+1.

roadhouse said:
yeah, about that, my fault. i was besides myself with angst yesterday so if you want to go and delete those posts of mine, i'd gladly accept your decision to do just that.
No need to do that - yet... :p
 
roadhouse said:
i never said that no one cares about teams, it's more than obvious that you do Alienator and i'm sure you of all people could show stats for every single pro rider that ever lived, i just admit that i don't care.

Note the quoted statement in my post. Now go back and find who made that quoted statement. You'll find that it wasn't you. That indicates my response was not directed toward you. Nothing that you said was a factor in my post.
 
alienator said:
Wow. "No one really cares." That's a pretty definitive statement. As such, it must be true in all cases, because no one really cares. There are no Brits that are Team Sky fans. There are no Spaniards that bleed red and yellow for Spanish teams.

No one really cares.

Obviously, cycling fans are super duper easy to categorize.


i can't believe it but you've done it, you've found a way to be a complete asshat yet again. this post i now quoted of yours doesn't have you quoting anyone and so i thought you were talking to me seeing as how you posted it directly after i posted.

eh, no biggy.
 
Froze said:
Number 2, then why not just create a bicycle sports league, like football etc, and compete here in the states along with rideoffs (playoffs) complete with finals to see who's the best in America.

3, yes we need more yanks, would a American bicycle league (ABL) do that?

4, Quite true, but one wonders if there was an ABL would interest get generated?
Uh, the answer to 2 and 3"essentially already done"; and the answer to 4 is "little to none."

After all, there are PLENTY of opportunities to watch bike racing (or race yourself, for that matter)....here in Wisconsin, there are 3 significant pro events (Tour of America's Dairyland, International Cycling Classic (aka Superweek), and the Nature Valley Grand Prix just across the border in Minnesota). The coasts have even more stuff going on. So if you so desire, you can wander out and see riders like Rory Sutherland (7th in the Tour of California) or National Crit Champion Rahsaan Bahati.

But sadly there isn't all that much interest aside from bike enthusiasts.

When I had comcast cable tv they wouldn't even show the highlights of the tour, Verizon at least shows a condensed version of the tour, newspaper is void of any tour reports, and I haven't been able to hear anything on radio news either. There's very little publicity here, you have to follow it the internet. And you can't find nothing concerning races in America except the internet. Again publicity needs to be generated.

Really? Versus has 2-3 hrs of coverage of the TdF every day; ESPN usually does stage highlights on Sportscenter; and most prominent newspapers will contain a daily short item about the TdF; granted, articles about OTHER races - the national championships, the Giro, local events - tends to be much more spotty.
Personally I think, though I could be wrong, that even if you had the all 4 of your objections eliminated the sport still would not go anywhere here. We would rather watch golf...snore!

Like I said, cycling is clearly a niche sport...but with more people bicycling themselves, maybe it will grow. Or maybe not.
 
roadhouse said:
i can't believe it but you've done it, you've found a way to be a complete asshat yet again. this post i now quoted of yours doesn't have you quoting anyone and so i thought you were talking to me seeing as how you posted it directly after i posted.

eh, no biggy.

So, the quotation in the post wasn't a clue that it wasn't directed at you and had nothing to do with you, eh? Where did you think the quote came from? Do you not remember what you've said or typed?
 
alienator said:
So, the quotation in the post wasn't a clue that it wasn't directed at you and had nothing to do with you, eh? Where did you think the quote came from? Do you not remember what you've said or typed?


what farkin' quotation in what farkin' post? you didn't farkin' quote anyone? yes, i farkin' know what i said and thought it odd that you said something about me saying no one cares yadda yadda yadda and ah, fark it.
 
roadhouse said:
what farkin' quotation in what farkin' post? you didn't farkin' quote anyone? yes, i farkin' know what i said and thought it odd that you said something about me saying no one cares yadda yadda yadda and ah, fark it.

Quotes, as in " ". If you had read carefully before you had made this post,
i never said that no one cares about teams, it's more than obvious that you do Alienator and i'm sure you of all people could show stats for every single pro rider that ever lived, i just admit that i don't care.
you'd have known straight off that my post wasn't directed at you. The words included in the quotes, having not come from you, would have been the very first clue.

You should read more carefully.
 
Hey Alienator !! I never said that everyone cares, I just said that "I" care, ok ?!?! :mad:

Look at my previous post !
 
gman0482 said:
Hey Alienator !! I never said that everyone cares, I just said that "I" care, ok ?!?! :mad:

Look at my previous post !

Yeah, but it was the way you said "I", the forceful, angry, yet royal and all inclusive way you typed that obviously showed that you didn't mean "I" but instead "every human being."

Your backhanded use of "I" to mean "everyone" was so obvious as to be an afront to everyone that was only kind of reading, you know....skimming without comprehension.

You have a lot for which you need to answer.