Hey Simon, where's Serguei/Herguey?

  • Thread starter Ryan John Cousineau
  • Start date



Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> Simon Brooke wrote:
> >
> > I think such a scenario is entirely possible. The /only/ team which
> > hasn't run into very severe questionmarks is Rabobank - what on earth is
> > a team from /Holland/ doing being so good in the mountains? I was joking
> > last year about Rasmussen practising in the mountains of Jutland, but
> > Boogerd - how does a boy from 's-Gravenhage learn to climb like /that/?

>
> <snip>
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> Riders from Holland have won the stage to Alpe d' Huez eight out of the
> twenty three times the TdF has included that climb.


Totaly true...

But look when it happend the last time...

Martin (dutch, who cannot climb...)
 
trg wrote:
> I'm sure that a rider (was it de la fuente?) punched someone a couple of
> days ago. I was lying in my hospital bed, still groggy from the aftereffects
> of the aenesthesia (no, really), sort of nodding in and out, so I didn't
> catch all the details, but I'm pretty sure it really happened. Anyone?


Perhaps you're thinking of this incident from the CN Live Update
(http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006//tour06/?id=live/tour0610):

"16:32 CEST
Laura Weislo has sent us her idea of how things might be, in a
parallel universe. We'd certainly like to see this race : )


16:08 CEST 143.5km/47km to go - So far, T-Mobile have been doing all
of the
work. Simoni has just punctured but got a new back wheel from one of
his
team-mates. He's chasing now and has a team-mate waiting for him. At
the front
Mick Rogers does a hard turn and Gonchar grabs his jersey and the two
exchange
heated words! Meanwhile Hincapie tries a dig at the front.

16:22 CEST 153.5km/42km to go - The issue between Gonchar and Rogers
has
grown to a full on slapping fight on the bike. Gonchar swings like a
girl while
the Aussie lands blow after telling blow. Meanwhile Landis has
attacked."

Lots of folks, including myself, were temporarily fooled by this (in
fact, it was mentioned on the next stage's LU). But note well the
first sentence.

(You had a connected computer in your hospital bed? Well, I've been
known to do the same.)

--
Tony Rall
 
"Tony Rall" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
| trg wrote:
| > I'm sure that a rider (was it de la fuente?) punched someone a couple of
| > days ago. I was lying in my hospital bed, still groggy from the
aftereffects
| > of the aenesthesia (no, really), sort of nodding in and out, so I didn't
| > catch all the details, but I'm pretty sure it really happened. Anyone?
|
| Perhaps you're thinking of this incident from the CN Live Update
| (http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006//tour06/?id=live/tour0610):
|
| "16:32 CEST
| Laura Weislo has sent us her idea of how things might be, in a
| parallel universe. We'd certainly like to see this race : )
|
|
| 16:08 CEST 143.5km/47km to go - So far, T-Mobile have been doing all
| of the
| work. Simoni has just punctured but got a new back wheel from one of
| his
| team-mates. He's chasing now and has a team-mate waiting for him. At
| the front
| Mick Rogers does a hard turn and Gonchar grabs his jersey and the two
| exchange
| heated words! Meanwhile Hincapie tries a dig at the front.
|
| 16:22 CEST 153.5km/42km to go - The issue between Gonchar and Rogers
| has
| grown to a full on slapping fight on the bike. Gonchar swings like a
| girl while
| the Aussie lands blow after telling blow. Meanwhile Landis has
| attacked."
|
| Lots of folks, including myself, were temporarily fooled by this (in
| fact, it was mentioned on the next stage's LU). But note well the
| first sentence.
|
| (You had a connected computer in your hospital bed? Well, I've been
| known to do the same.)
|
| --
| Tony Rall

No, I was watching it on the tele, in French. I remember the commentators
saying that the target of the "gesture" made no response but either did, or
would, go over to the commisar. I wished I had had a computer, but there was
no internet access from the room. And there's only so much minesweeper one
can stand.
 
On 13 Jul 2006 21:24:02 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>weakened team, and a group attacks on the climb before
>the last one and forces the MJ to burn up his team chasing,
>leaving him isolated before the last climb, that's a weak spot.
>
>I don't think this would happen on stage 15 to Alpe d'Huez -
>the second climb, the Lauteret, is probably not hard enough.


A very confident team could do it on the Izoard. You're right, the
Lautaret will be a non-event but on the other hand both downhills are
easy and leave little room for coming back. The biggest problem of the
escapees would be the fairly long semi-flat run-in to the Alp.

Though probably it will just be a breakaway day for non-contenders.

--
E. Dronkert
 
<[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
| Ryan John Cousineau wrote:
|
| > Stage 18, the day before the final TT, and the day after they leave the
big
| > mountains. Landis has a couple of minutes on GC against all comers, the
| > T-Mobile team have all had their mandatory jours sans, and after a
[random
| > misfortune] Kloden is not in contention. The stage starts out tired, but
| > somewhere around the first sprint point, a group of ten riders takes
off,
| > with no Phonak representation, and . . . Christophe Moreau and Eddy
| > Mazzoleni have snuck into the bunch!
| >
| > Nightmare scenario for Landis: his team sucks, so the hopes to chase
down
| > and control such a break are marginal. This isn't an obvious stage for
| > sprinters, so those teams won't help. T-Mobile is strong, but if they're
| > represented in the break, they'll sit in.
| >
| > The break works well together, and the decimated Phonak cannot catch
the
| > break. Landis ends up trying to pull the peloton himself.
|
| In addition to the other objections people raised to this
| possibility, you're exaggerating Phonak's incapacity.
| Phonak has Axel, Perdiguero, Mourenhout, Jalabert,
| Bert Grabsch, Hunter, Moos and Pena. There are some
| pretty good rouleurs in that bunch (Axel, Grabsch, Pena
| for starters). Their problem is that they don't have anybody
| who's showing climbing ability right now, except Axel,
| more or less.
|
| They'll be tired by stage 18, but so will everyone else. Also,
| stage 18 is fine for sprinters and one of their last chances,
| so if the MJ's team can keep a break within a few minutes,
| the sprinters' team will take over at the end.
|
| Their bigger problem is a lack of climbers. There are three
| hard Alpine stages in a row. If the MJ, whoever it is, has a
| weakened team, and a group attacks on the climb before
| the last one and forces the MJ to burn up his team chasing,
| leaving him isolated before the last climb, that's a weak spot.
|
| I don't think this would happen on stage 15 to Alpe d'Huez -
| the second climb, the Lauteret, is probably not hard enough.
| But on stage 17 to Morzine, there is a section of flat after the
| first series of cols and before the Joux-Plane. If the leader
| arrives here with a break up the road, no teammates, and
| everyone looking at him to chase, forcing him to the front
| for 15 km, he's got problems.
|
| For reasons other people gave, there will probably be
| other teams that help chase. And you can't count on
| T-Mobile to execute successfully. Still, don't risk bonking
| on the Joux-Plane, Floyd - take an extra clif bar.


Well spotted. That one section could give problems. I'm sure Rabobank and
Menchov haven't forgotten losing the Vuelta last year when Heras was able to
drop Mechov getting up a hard climb before a long flat, and gain some
precious extra seconds going all out on the descent in order to rejoin his
waiting teammates at the bottom and power away from an isolated Menchov on
the flats. If Menchov trails Landis at that point, I think they might try
something similar.

However, according to Floyd, he didn't have many teammates by design. All
but one were told to take it easy. Landis has said that now with the yellow
jersey, thats probably no longer possible. It could of course be BS to try
to cover up the team's weakness. Like Kloden's "cramp". If it were really a
strategy, I'd let the world go on thinking it was a problem. The cardinal
rule of racing is to make the other guy think that you're weak when you're
strong, and that you're strong when you're weak.
 
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> The Robert Millar type episode will never happen again unless a rider's
> own team is against him.


Like T-M/Vino.
 
trg wrote:
>> I'm sure that a rider (was it de la fuente?) punched someone a couple of
>> days ago. I was lying in my hospital bed,


Tony Rall wrote:
> (You had a connected computer in your hospital bed? Well, I've been
> known to do the same.)


Dumbass,
If he was a RealMan(tm) and not a rbr ***** he'd have had a nurse in bed
with him.
 
Simon Brooke wrote:

> Rasmussen was always an either/or bet with Menchov - Rabobank weren't
> going to back both of them.


And he did an ITT for menchov on the valley floor before the final climb.
Fortunately he wasn't riding his TT bike.
 
Ryan John Cousineau wrote:
>> I know, it's mean to gloat, so I guess this means I need to improve my
>> personality....


Tim Lines wrote:
> I didn't think people who need to improve their personality were allowed
> to post here.


I thought rbr was a training ground for developing an anti social
personality.
 
in message <[email protected]>,
[email protected] ('[email protected]') wrote:

> Ryan John Cousineau wrote:
>
>> Stage 18, the day before the final TT, and the day after they leave
>> the big mountains. Landis has a couple of minutes on GC against all
>> comers, the T-Mobile team have all had their mandatory jours sans, and
>> after a [random misfortune] Kloden is not in contention. The stage
>> starts out tired, but somewhere around the first sprint point, a group
>> of ten riders takes off, with no Phonak representation, and . . .
>> Christophe Moreau and Eddy Mazzoleni have snuck into the bunch!
>>
>> Nightmare scenario for Landis: his team sucks, so the hopes to chase
>> down and control such a break are marginal. This isn't an obvious
>> stage for sprinters, so those teams won't help. T-Mobile is strong,
>> but if they're
>> represented in the break, they'll sit in.
>>
>> The break works well together, and the decimated Phonak cannot catch
>> the break. Landis ends up trying to pull the peloton himself.

>
> Their bigger problem is a lack of climbers. There are three
> hard Alpine stages in a row. If the MJ, whoever it is, has a
> weakened team, and a group attacks on the climb before
> the last one and forces the MJ to burn up his team chasing,
> leaving him isolated before the last climb, that's a weak spot.


Agreed. Add to which, Landis is riding in at least some degree of pain.
It's not unlikely that he will have a day on which he isn't feeling
great, and needs support. If that happens in the mountains then frankly
he's stuffed, because the support isn't there.

> For reasons other people gave, there will probably be
> other teams that help chase. And you can't count on
> T-Mobile to execute successfully. Still, don't risk bonking
> on the Joux-Plane, Floyd - take an extra clif bar.


I don't think T-Mo are as incompetent as you do. But also, Sastre still
has the remnants of a great team behind him, and a DS who will /not/
screw up the tactics; Menchov has a greatly under-rated team behind him;
and even Gerolsteiner are proving themselves surprisingly strong. Each
of those teams has, IMHO, a better chance of winning than Phonak.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Let's have a moment of silence for all those Americans who are stuck
;; in traffic on their way to the gym to ride the stationary bicycle.
;; Rep. Earl Blumenauer (Dem, OR)
 
in message <[email protected]>, trg
('[email protected]') wrote:

> However, according to Floyd, he didn't have many teammates by design.
> All but one were told to take it easy.


He would say that, wouldn't he?

Today's stage is largely downhill, with one second category climb and
three little ones. Tomorrow's is (I think) flat. If you have climbers in
your team, and they burned their legs yesterday, they have two days to
sit in and recover before stage 14, and then a rest day after stage 14.

So anyone who didn't use the grimpeurs they had yesterday wasn't thinking
strategically.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; in faecibus sapiens rheum propagabit
 
"trg" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> "Tony Rall" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
> [email protected]...
>| trg wrote:
>| > I'm sure that a rider (was it de la fuente?) punched someone a
>| > couple of days ago. I was lying in my hospital bed, still groggy
>| > from the
> aftereffects
>| > of the aenesthesia (no, really), sort of nodding in and out, so I
>| > didn't catch all the details, but I'm pretty sure it really
>| > happened. Anyone?


> No, I was watching it on the tele, in French. I remember the
> commentators saying that the target of the "gesture" made no response
> but either did, or would, go over to the commisar. I wished I had had
> a computer, but there was no internet access from the room. And
> there's only so much minesweeper one can stand.


Either you weren't hallucinating or I was because I remember it too. I
don't recall actually seeing it, but either heard the Liggett and Sherwen
mention it or I read about it somewhere. And I think it was de la Fuente
swatting Wegmann, like after they had been away and then caught by the
bunch.

Looked like they kissed and made up yesterday.

NS
 
"Nev Shea" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
| "trg" <[email protected]> wrote in
| news:[email protected]:
|
| > "Tony Rall" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
| > [email protected]...
| >| trg wrote:
| >| > I'm sure that a rider (was it de la fuente?) punched someone a
| >| > couple of days ago. I was lying in my hospital bed, still groggy
| >| > from the
| > aftereffects
| >| > of the aenesthesia (no, really), sort of nodding in and out, so I
| >| > didn't catch all the details, but I'm pretty sure it really
| >| > happened. Anyone?
|
| > No, I was watching it on the tele, in French. I remember the
| > commentators saying that the target of the "gesture" made no response
| > but either did, or would, go over to the commisar. I wished I had had
| > a computer, but there was no internet access from the room. And
| > there's only so much minesweeper one can stand.
|
| Either you weren't hallucinating or I was because I remember it too. I
| don't recall actually seeing it, but either heard the Liggett and Sherwen
| mention it or I read about it somewhere. And I think it was de la Fuente
| swatting Wegmann, like after they had been away and then caught by the
| bunch.
|
| Looked like they kissed and made up yesterday.
|
| NS

According to Dave Z, It was de la fuente and a rider for Bouygues

"But before all this craziness, I saw something even more crazy. I saw a guy
get punched in the face! Now that was weird since I've never seen anyone get
punched in the face before. But there we are in the Tour de France and all
of a sudden this Saunier Duval rider, De La Fuentes, just sat up and punched
this Bouygues Telekom guy in the face. Well the Telekom guy went back to the
medical car to report it, and I went back to confirm his story cause I don't
want to see guys hauling off and punching other guys in the face. The Tour
de France is crazy enough as it is."
 
trg wrote:
> According to Dave Z, It was de la fuente and a rider for Bouygues
>
> "But before all this craziness, I saw something even more crazy. I saw a guy
> get punched in the face! Now that was weird since I've never seen anyone get
> punched in the face before. But there we are in the Tour de France and all
> of a sudden this Saunier Duval rider, De La Fuentes, just sat up and punched
> this Bouygues Telekom guy in the face. Well the Telekom guy went back to the
> medical car to report it, and I went back to confirm his story cause I don't
> want to see guys hauling off and punching other guys in the face. The Tour
> de France is crazy enough as it is."


Perhaps De La Fuentes is a ringer for Clinger.
 
"Donald Munro" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
| trg wrote:
| > According to Dave Z, It was de la fuente and a rider for Bouygues
| >
| > "But before all this craziness, I saw something even more crazy. I saw a
guy
| > get punched in the face! Now that was weird since I've never seen anyone
get
| > punched in the face before. But there we are in the Tour de France and
all
| > of a sudden this Saunier Duval rider, De La Fuentes, just sat up and
punched
| > this Bouygues Telekom guy in the face. Well the Telekom guy went back to
the
| > medical car to report it, and I went back to confirm his story cause I
don't
| > want to see guys hauling off and punching other guys in the face. The
Tour
| > de France is crazy enough as it is."
|
| Perhaps De La Fuentes is a ringer for Clinger.
|

Did Dave Z finger a ringer for Clinger?
 
Donald Munro wrote:
> | Perhaps De La Fuentes is a ringer for Clinger.


trg wrote:
> Did Dave Z finger a ringer for Clinger?


3-2
 
Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Where you say Gonchar is about equal to Savoldelli in the mountains.


> I did, yes.


I agree, he usually is. On the particular day when savodelli sucked,
Gonchar just sucked even more.

> > Michael Rasmussen (what were you people thinking?)


> Rasmussen was always an either/or bet with Menchov - Rabobank weren't
> going to back both of them.


true, Rasmussen burned himself on purpose by pulling the peloton not
only on the second last climb, and the beginning of the last climb,
but also all the way on the flat.

btw his primary goal this year is Alpe d'huez, not GC.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

PowerMac G5: 1.6GHz, 1,25GB RAM, 300+300GB SATA, 16xDVD DL, Bluetooth
mus+tastatur, R9600PRO, iSight, eyeTV200 & LaCie Photon18Vision TFT.
 
Donald Munro <[email protected]> wrote:
> Simon Brooke wrote:


> > Rasmussen was always an either/or bet with Menchov - Rabobank weren't
> > going to back both of them.


> And he did an ITT for menchov on the valley floor before the final climb.
> Fortunately he wasn't riding his TT bike.


That 50km pull was a deposite in the (Rabo)bank, expect him to make
his withdraw on stage 15.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

PowerMac G5: 1.6GHz, 1,25GB RAM, 300+300GB SATA, 16xDVD DL, Bluetooth
mus+tastatur, R9600PRO, iSight, eyeTV200 & LaCie Photon18Vision TFT.