High 'crit cert

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Oyvey1948, Jun 3, 2004.

  1. Oyvey1948

    Oyvey1948 Guest

    According to the cyclingnews.com piece on David Extebarria,
    he says "Like many other cyclists I have a certificate from
    the UCI that recognises that I have a haematocrit much
    higher than normal, up to 52%."

    How many?
     
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  2. Andy Coggan

    Andy Coggan Guest

    "oyvey1948" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > According to the cyclingnews.com piece on David
    > Extebarria, he says "Like many other cyclists I have a
    > certificate from the UCI that recognises that I have a
    > haematocrit much higher than normal, up to 52%."
    >
    > How many?

    I don't know, but here's another question: what evidence is
    there that naturally having a high hematocrit provides an
    individual with a competitve advantage in endurance sports?
    That is, while it is crystal-clear that *elevating*
    hematocrit (via EPO, blood doping, etc.) increases VO2max
    and improves performance, that doesn't necessarily mean that
    those whose "set points" run higher than average are any
    better off.

    To use my own self as an example: having a hematocrit of
    <40% when fit/training hard didn't prevent me from having a
    VO2max of >80 mL/min/kg when I was younger...

    Andy ("I'm truly curious") Coggan
     
  3. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Andy Coggan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "oyvey1948" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > According to the cyclingnews.com piece on David
    > > Extebarria, he says "Like many other cyclists I have a
    > > certificate from the UCI that recognises that I have a
    > > haematocrit much higher than normal, up to 52%."
    > >
    > > How many?
    >
    > I don't know, but here's another question: what evidence
    > is there that naturally having a high hematocrit provides
    > an individual with a
    competitve
    > advantage in endurance sports? That is, while it is crystal-
    > clear that *elevating* hematocrit (via EPO, blood doping,
    > etc.) increases VO2max and improves performance, that
    > doesn't necessarily mean that those whose "set points" run
    > higher than average are any better off.
    >
    > To use my own self as an example: having a hematocrit of
    > <40% when fit/training hard didn't prevent me from having
    > a VO2max of >80 mL/min/kg when I was younger...

    I keep trying to make this point clear but people don't seem
    to be listening - the whole point of blood doping is to
    increase oxygen flow to the muscles. However, it is the
    EXCHANGE of gases which are the limiting factor and not the
    hematocrit. This implies that there are a multitude of
    factors involved in which lowered hematocrit might be offset
    by total blood volume or by more efficient exchange of CO2
    and O2 through the lungs or muscle cell walls.

    Those with high hematocrits do NOT necessarily have any
    advantages though it doesn't hurt to be at the high end
    of normal.
     
  4. Sam

    Sam Guest

    Andy, you know that the UCI is only concerned about the
    safety of the riders
    :)
    "Andy Coggan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "oyvey1948" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > According to the cyclingnews.com piece on David
    > > Extebarria, he says "Like many other cyclists I have a
    > > certificate from the UCI that recognises that I have a
    > > haematocrit much higher than normal, up to 52%."
    > >
    > > How many?
    >
    > I don't know, but here's another question: what evidence
    > is there that naturally having a high hematocrit provides
    > an individual with a
    competitve
    > advantage in endurance sports? That is, while it is crystal-
    > clear that *elevating* hematocrit (via EPO, blood doping,
    > etc.) increases VO2max and improves performance, that
    > doesn't necessarily mean that those whose "set points" run
    > higher than average are any better off.
    >
    > To use my own self as an example: having a hematocrit of
    > <40% when fit/training hard didn't prevent me from having
    > a VO2max of >80 mL/min/kg when I was younger...
    >
    > Andy ("I'm truly curious") Coggan
     
  5. Phil Holman

    Phil Holman Guest

    "Andy Coggan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "oyvey1948" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]ng.google.com...
    > > According to the cyclingnews.com piece on David
    > > Extebarria, he says "Like many other cyclists I have a
    > > certificate from the UCI that recognises that I have a
    > > haematocrit much higher than normal, up to 52%."
    > >
    > > How many?
    >
    > I don't know, but here's another question: what evidence
    > is there that naturally having a high hematocrit provides
    > an individual with a competitve advantage in endurance
    > sports? That is, while it is crystal-clear that
    > *elevating* hematocrit (via EPO, blood doping, etc.)
    > increases VO2max and improves performance, that doesn't
    > necessarily mean that those whose "set points" run higher
    > than average are any better off.
    >
    > To use my own self as an example: having a hematocrit of
    > <40% when fit/training hard didn't prevent me from having
    > a VO2max of >80 mL/min/kg when I was younger...
    >
    Notionally I see it as being similar to a directional
    derivative in multivariable calculus. The maximum increase
    in a function, i.e. peak performance, is dependent on
    several factors (vectors). A significant decrease in one of
    the factors has a somewhat diminished effect on the overall
    result. I'm having to post this through google because
    Earthlink is unable to connect to the news reader. Anyone
    else having the same problem?

    Phil Holman
     
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