High humidity and cotton

[Rick Onanian]

On 11 Jun 2004 12:21:17 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Previously, you've basically said "it's ridiculous for you
>>not to be a transportational cyclist", quoted at the top
>>of this message
>
>No, I didn't, and your misreading of that is the core
>of the problem here. I pointed out that the
>(persistent) assumption on rbt that all bicycling is
>recreational is absurd.

Really? [note: quote-level incorrect]:
>>JP <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>Besides, it's also sensible, if at all possible, on those
>>>90/90 days to do your bike riding in the morning, unless
>>>you have a reason to train specifically for heat
>>>acclimatization.
>>Or, gosh, unless you actually have somewhere to go, rather
>>than using the bike exclusively as a toy.

That sure sounds like "you're a bad person for riding
recreationally", not "I don't have that problem because I
don't ride recreationally".

How about this: You intended to point out simply that the
aforementioned assumption is absurd, but it came across as
snide elitism, the opinion that EVERYBODY should ride
transportationally. This is partly because of your wording,
and partly because you misread the original quote, which was
simply offering advice on how recreational cyclists could
deal with heat.

That's my theory, anyway.
--
Rick Onanian

 

[Rick Onanian]

On 11 Jun 2004 05:09:00 -0700, [email protected] (Andy
M-S) wrote:
>> >>Or, gosh, unless you actually have something to do,
>> >>which precludes using the bike.
>
>parsed as [Or, gosh] [unless you actually have something to
>do] [which precludes using the bike]
>
>I read that (and so did others) as a snide remark that some
>people have "things to do" as opposed to riding a bike,
>which is implied to be unimportant by contrast to these
>other "things." That's what people are reacting to--the
>notion that bikes are purely recreational.

No kidding. For some people, bikes ARE purely recreational.
For others, they're not. Neither point of view is bad; it's
only the intolerance [of one or the other point of view]
which is a problem.

>So, two possible readings of the statement. The first is
>snotty and deserves all the flak it has received.

So, anybody who has things to do that are higher priorities
than biking, is snotty?
--
Rick Onanian

 

[Mark South]

"Rick Onanian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 11 Jun 2004 05:09:00 -0700, [email protected]
> (Andy M-S) wrote:
> >> >>Or, gosh, unless you actually have something to do,
> >> >>which precludes using the bike.
> >
> >parsed as [Or, gosh] [unless you actually have something
> >to do] [which precludes using the bike]
> >
> >I read that (and so did others) as a snide remark that
> >some people have "things to do" as opposed to riding a
> >bike, which is implied to be unimportant by contrast to
> >these other "things." That's what people are reacting to--
> >the notion that bikes are purely recreational.
>
> No kidding. For some people, bikes ARE purely
> recreational. For others, they're not. Neither point of
> view is bad; it's only the intolerance [of one or the
> other point of view] which is a problem.

You mistake the two viewpoints actually under discussion.
One is that only one of your viewpoints above is valid. The
other is that both of your viewpoints above are valid.

> >So, two possible readings of the statement. The first is
> >snotty and deserves all the flak it has received.
>
> So, anybody who has things to do that are higher
> priorities than biking, is snotty?

No, anyone who denies that biking can be recreational AND
transportational is being called snotty.
--
"A kilt opens up new possibilities."
- Gary D. Schwartz in rec.backcountry

 

[Jp]

[email protected] (Andy M-S) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (JP) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...

> > Yeah, for those who have the luxury of being able to
> > arrive somewhere smelling like the hippo exhibit at the
> > zoo. And whether training or commuting, you're still
> > sucking the same ozone into your lungs, at least around
> > here anyway.
>
> Hmm. I commute year round rain or shine or snow or heat
> and I never smell like a hippo. Of course, unlike some
> people, I shower regularly.

I don't care how often you shower, if you don't shower
*after* you commute in on a hot muggy day, arguing about
whether your BO qualifies as actually hippo-like is pretty
much missing the real issue. I wonder what your colleagues
think of the eccentric guy who commutes in every conceivable
kind of weather but refuses to shower afterwards.

If you do shower after you ride, well good for you- you have
the luxury of being able to arrive somewhere smelly, because
you get to do something about it after you get there.

JP

 

[Chris Zacho "Th]

I've lived here (SC, USA) where the stuff (cotton) is grown
3 years now and I have yet to find any material that can
wick away sweat into an atmosphere as humid outside the
jersey as inside!

- -

"May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear
for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

 

[Robin Hubert]

[email protected] (Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I've lived here (SC, USA) where the stuff (cotton) is
> grown 3 years now and I have yet to find any material that
> can wick away sweat into an atmosphere as humid outside
> the jersey as inside!
>

Their is the rub of it, eh? Dewpoints are commonly in the
70's here in Chicagoland.

Robin Hubert [email protected]

 

[Robin Hubert]

[email protected] (Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I've lived here (SC, USA) where the stuff (cotton) is
> grown 3 years now and I have yet to find any material that
> can wick away sweat into an atmosphere as humid outside
> the jersey as inside!
>

One note on cotton is that I occasionally like to use a large-
ish, light-colored, long-sleeved cotton shirt on long,
sunny, hot rides. I wear it over my jersey. It's not aero,
but who cares? I will also carry a large cotton dish towel
to wear on my head and veil the sides of my face and neck
(shiekh, eh?). I started doing this for sun protection, but
soon found it helps keep me cool as well. Additionally, the
large towel can absorb an amazing amount of sweat.

Robin Hubert [email protected]

 

[Andy M-S]

[email protected] (JP) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Andy M-S) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (JP) wrote in message ne-
> > ws:<[email protected]>...
>
> > > Yeah, for those who have the luxury of being able to
> > > arrive somewhere smelling like the hippo exhibit at
> > > the zoo. And whether training or commuting, you're
> > > still sucking the same ozone into your lungs, at least
> > > around here anyway.
> >
> > Hmm. I commute year round rain or shine or snow or heat
> > and I never smell like a hippo. Of course, unlike some
> > people, I shower regularly.
>
> I don't care how often you shower, if you don't shower
> *after* you commute in on a hot muggy day, arguing about
> whether your BO qualifies as actually hippo-like is pretty
> much missing the real issue. I wonder what your colleagues
> think of the eccentric guy who commutes in every
> conceivable kind of weather but refuses to shower
> afterwards.
>
> If you do shower after you ride, well good for you- you
> have the luxury of being able to arrive somewhere
> smelly, because you get to do something about it after
> you get there.
>
> JP
JP:

I shower every morning prior to my commute, and I don't
stink. This is something that I'm constantly checking with
my spouse, family (I have a teenaged daughter who would not
hesitate to point out a problem) and my co-workers. I
shower, eat breakfast, ride hard, get to work a little
early, let the sweat dry, then change. Never a complaint--in
fact, some people don't realize that I am bicycle commuting
at all ("I'll bet you can't wait until the weather improves
so you can go back to riding," is a typical comment).

There are no showers at work, but that hasn't proved to be
a problem.

I've been commuting for six or seven years this way with no
complaints. And while I pride myself on being eccentric, I'm
by no means irreplaceable. If what I do was causing a
problem, I'd be out on the street before I could blink.

Tell me--have you ever tried this method, or are you
guessing?

 

[Tom Reingold]

[email protected] wrote:

> Tom Reingold writes:
>
>
>>Quite right. I gave my wool jerseys away a year or two ago
>>because they had shrunken and I had grown. (I promise both
>>happened. I'm not that much fatter, but my chest and
>>shoulders have really grown, honest.) I remember hearing
>>about wool jerseys and wondering if they would be hot in
>>the summer. Interestingly, they are not hot when riding,
>>because of the wicking action, but they were certainly hot
>>when I stopped.
>
>
> I think you are overlooking the ventilation effect because
> wool as synthetic knit-wear allows air passage that woven
> fabrics (that are offered these days) do not.

I didn't overlook it, but I did forget to mention it.

And truth be told, I find cotton perfectly find for cycling.

> Hence the long zipper so they can be ridden wide open for
> ventilation. It's not the printing that makes these
> jerseys uncomfortable.

Did I say something to imply that the printing has any
effect? ;-)

>>Taken recently, I'm the guy named Tom on the right: http://whatexit.org/~tommy/tom-and-tom-in-yellow-
>>jerseys.jpg
>
>>http://tinyurl.com/3yree
>
>
> Do you work for the CIA/FBI? Why the welding goggles?

I said I'm the guy on the RIGHT, and those are normal
sunglasses. The other guy, also named Tom, is wearing the
goggle-ish sunglasses.

>
> http://tinyurl.com/2x2y6 http://tinyurl.com/3arss
>
> I'm the guy on the left.

You look very good.

Tom

 

[Jp]

[email protected] (Andy M-S) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (JP) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (Andy M-S) wrote in
> > message news:<[email protected]
> > ogle.com>...
> > > [email protected] (JP) wrote in message
> > > news:<[email protected]
> > > >...
>
> > > > Yeah, for those who have the luxury of being able to
> > > > arrive somewhere smelling like the hippo exhibit at
> > > > the zoo. And whether training or commuting, you're
> > > > still sucking the same ozone into your lungs, at
> > > > least around here anyway.
> > >
> > > Hmm. I commute year round rain or shine or snow or
> > > heat and I never smell like a hippo. Of course, unlike
> > > some people, I shower regularly.
> >
> > I don't care how often you shower, if you don't shower
> > *after* you commute in on a hot muggy day, arguing about
> > whether your BO qualifies as actually hippo-like is
> > pretty much missing the real issue. I wonder what your
> > colleagues think of the eccentric guy who commutes in
> > every conceivable kind of weather but refuses to shower
> > afterwards.
> >
> > If you do shower after you ride, well good for you- you
> > have the luxury of being able to arrive somewhere
> > smelly, because you get to do something about it after
> > you get there.
> >
> > JP
> JP:
>
> I shower every morning prior to my commute, and I don't
> stink. This is something that I'm constantly checking with
> my spouse, family (I have a teenaged daughter who would
> not hesitate to point out a problem) and my co-workers. I
> shower, eat breakfast, ride hard, get to work a little
> early, let the sweat dry, then change. Never a complaint--
> in fact, some people don't realize that I am bicycle
> commuting at all ("I'll bet you can't wait until the
> weather improves so you can go back to riding," is a
> typical comment).
>
> There are no showers at work, but that hasn't proved to be
> a problem.
>
> I've been commuting for six or seven years this way with
> no complaints. And while I pride myself on being
> eccentric, I'm by no means irreplaceable. If what I do
> was causing a problem, I'd be out on the street before I
> could blink.
>
> Tell me--have you ever tried this method, or are you
> guessing?

I haven't tried it and would never presume to try it in a
white collar setting. I and I would guess most of the people
I know would consider it rude and an imposition on our co-
workers, to say the least, to "let the sweat dry" at work
and then change. Glad it works for you. Wow.

JP

 

[David Damerell]

JP <[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] (Andy M-S) wrote
>>I shower every morning prior to my commute, and I don't
>>stink. Tell me--have you ever tried this method, or are
>>you guessing?
>I haven't tried it and would never presume to try it in a
>white collar setting.

His question's rhetorical; we _know_ you haven't tried it.
Sweaty clothes are what smell; if you dry off and change,
you don't.

I have verified that my colleagues cannot tell if I
have walked to the station and got the train in rather
than riding.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?

 

[Joe Riel]

David Damerell wrote:

> His question's rhetorical; we _know_ you haven't tried it.
> Sweaty clothes are what smell; if you dry off and change,
> you don't.
>
> I have verified that my colleagues cannot tell if I
> have walked to the station and got the train in rather
> than riding.

Maybe it's a little too vigorous walk to the train station,
so you smell equally bad either way . I'm kidding.

For my last two jobs (white-collar, in an office
environment) there were no showers. One was a 25 mile ride,
the other about a six mile ride, but over a significant
hill. I never got any complaints, though with the 25 mile
ride I had to wash up a bit in the bathroom, mainly to look
presentable. I had colleagues who rode to work the
equivalent distances and they didn't smell.

It is important to keep your bike clothes clean---I would
wash them each night. Another employer, who had showers,
also had a spin dryer (no heat, its a centrifuge) which
allowed me to hand wash the bike clothes in morning and then
quickly dry them (two minutes in the spin dryer would get
the bike clothes almost completely dry); that was especially
nice on rainy days.

Joe

 

[Chris B .]

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 18:39:43 GMT, Joe Riel <[email protected]> wrote:

>David Damerell wrote:
>
>> His question's rhetorical; we _know_ you haven't tried
>> it. Sweaty clothes are what smell; if you dry off and
>> change, you don't.
>>
>> I have verified that my colleagues cannot tell if I have
>> walked to the station and got the train in rather than
>> riding.
>
>Maybe it's a little too vigorous walk to the train station,
>so you smell equally bad either way .

Or even commuting in a car without air conditioning during
the summer in most parts of the world - and <GASP> *not*
changing clothes afterwards. One might wonder if these
people receive the same lecture from 'JP' (who might
consider capitalizing on his talents by pursuing a career as
an armpit sniffer)

http://www.thewavemag.com/pagegen.php?pagename=article&arti-
cleid=23394

 

[Rick Onanian]

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 02:36:26 GMT, Chris B.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Or even commuting in a car without air conditioning during
>the summer in most parts of the world - and <GASP> *not*
>changing clothes afterwards.

If it's hot enough to sweat profusely in a car with the
windows open, it's hot enough to sweat really awfully
profusely from riding a bike.
--
Rick Onanian

 

[Andy M-S]

"Father Time" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<EJ8xc.1010$ar.252@attbi_s04>...
> >"wle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > why would the $60 synthetics be any better than a white
> > cotton t shirt?
>
> Why $60 for a synthetic?
>
> With shipping included I paid $13.25 for a HighViz
> Alertshirt http://www.alertshirt.com/lonsleevmois.html.
>
> They are way more visible than a cotton shirt. They dry
> faster and keep their shape better than soggy cotton.
>
> From the Land of High Humdity and Heat (North Florida)
>
> Father Time

After seeing the reference here, I ordered a couple of
their T-shirts. The material doesn't dry nearly as fast as
a typical cycling jersey, but it's comfortable stuff. And
does it get attention! At less than $8/t-shirt, it's hard
to pass up.

 

[Chris B .]

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:30:16 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 02:36:26 GMT, Chris B. <bikerider@-no-spam-thanks-
>rogers.com> wrote:
>>Or even commuting in a car without air conditioning during
>>the summer in most parts of the world - and <GASP> *not*
>>changing clothes afterwards.
>
>If it's hot enough to sweat profusely in a car with the
>windows open, it's hot enough to sweat really awfully
>profusely from riding a bike.

Well, when your back is pressed to the seat in a car which
is even mildly hot, the back of your shirt will tend to get
soaked with sweat. The windows being open won't help as much
in bumper-to-bumper traffic on a day without a lot of wind
gusts. Since cycling is so efficient, if one is disciplined
enough to not ride too fast, one can generally arrive at
their destination without being a sweaty mess. Again, an
employee returning from walking outside to get lunch or even
just moving around an office that gets a little too warm in
the summer can lead to pit stains galore.

When you factor in the fact that this sub-thread referred
to a cyclist who cleans up and changes immediately
afterwards the faux incredulity on the part of JP and
others who don't use their bikes to go somewhere seems a
little forced. I love threads like these; it's always
amusing to see people's prejudices exposed apparently
without them even realizing it.