High Intensity & Weightloss

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by FatguyRacer, Mar 10, 2006.

  1. FatguyRacer

    FatguyRacer New Member

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    Hi All,

    I have a general question that i couldnt find doing a search.

    Is it better to lose weight first before focusing on a high intensity phase?

    Reason i ask is im still heading downwards from 255lbs to 175lbs. Right now I'm at around 210. I started this June 1, 2005. I got down to 205 by October. My background as a cyclist is that i've been riding since toe clips&straps and nailed-on cletes were de riguer (im 43). I stopped racing in 2001 and spent 5 years getting fat. I targeted 2006 as the year to start competeing, but a new Ducati Monster in Sept. plus winter sloth has put me behind the 8 ball. Instead of being at around 180 lbs, had i stuck to the plan, im at 210 right now.

    My base training since January has been ok, but not the high milage i was putting out last summer. In the last couple of weeks, i had been doing some group spinerval type workouts and hill reapeats. Last weekend i was absolutely destroyed and got dropped off the group ride in less than 10 miles. I had no top end.

    It got me to thinking that maybe i dont have enough base. And that im not getting the calories needed to do high intensity workouts. Right now im running a deficit sufficient to lose 1-2 lbs a week. My thinking is that i should continue to work on endurance doing light intensity and middle intensity cruise type intervals while im losing the weight and worry about the super high efforts like sprints, 100% LT and hill repeats once i can stop dieting.

    I want to hit the races around late May. By then i will be back at the same racing weight when i stopped, about 185-190lbs. My goal is to be better than i was before, and being 190 is not good enough, i always suffered in road races that had hills. I would like to right that wrong.

    Am i one the right track here? I could use some suggestions if anyone has some good input to offer.

    Thanks
     
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  2. frenchyge

    frenchyge New Member

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    First, welcome and congrats. Better reserve "SkinnyGuy Racer" now, if it's still available. :)

    There are tons of threads regarding weight loss, but for your specific question I'd say there's no reason to try to lose the weight *first*. Higher intensity work will help continue the weight loss that you're already experiencing, and you'll be improving your race fitness at the same time so that you're ready to compete when you hit your target weight. Your concerns about sufficient calorie intake are valid, and you may need to increase your intake (especially carbs) somewhat as you ratchet up the training intensity and burn. Just maintain the same sensible deficit that you have already established, and you should get enough energy while still maintaining your weight loss.

    Sounds like you're on a good plan, and there's no reason you can't work on both goals at the same time. Good luck.
     
  3. Powerful Pete

    Powerful Pete New Member

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    Wow, I would agree with frenchyge... in any event, congratulations on your weight loss so far... in spite of the new Ducati Monster (which one?)!

    Keep up the good work and keep us posted on your improvements! :)
     
  4. FatguyRacer

    FatguyRacer New Member

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    Thanks guys!

    Pete - The girlie one. The 620. The red one of course. Its the fastest. :p

    I got an S2R1000 in my sights...
     
  5. WarrenG

    WarrenG New Member

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    You may want to go to analyticcycling.com and plug in some various weights and road slopes to see just how much more power you need to generate for an extra one pound of weight.

    Since you haven't raced in a long time I'd say get ready to race soon and let the weight come off more gradually than the 1-2 pounds you were aiming at. You can still have some fun racing on flatter courses in the meantime and you'll be learning about racing sooner than if you waited to lose x more pounds first.

    I can think of lots or reasons you should not let your diet restrict your training since the training will help you more (at this point in time) than the more extreme weight loss.

    Once you start having fun racing again you may be more encouraged to train and eat properly.
     
  6. ptooey

    ptooey New Member

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    First off, good job FGR on the huge weight loss since June - that is quite an accomplishment by itself. However, I don't think the replies so far have answered FGRs question. He said that he had gotten dropped 10mi into his last group ride and, if I understood him correctly, was wondering if he was getting enough calories to recover properly from his workouts. Im also trying to drop a few more lbs before the races begin. It is easiest for me to lose weight by upping the protein and eating LOTS of veggies so I can feel full but my total carb % drops to about 45%. Lately my high end workouts have SUCKED (can't put out the power that I think I should be able to) and I was wondering the same thing - should I forget about losing the weight for now? Is it possible to lose weight and still be in a high intensity (Z5) training block without sacrificing the quality of the workouts? Thanks.
     
  7. FatguyRacer

    FatguyRacer New Member

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    Thanks Ptooey!

    You are right on about what i wanted to know, but the other points made are vaild and have been validated by me. I took a week off from really intense efforts and grouprides last week. As a consequence my rides were very enjoyable, but also much easier at a higher pace. Those LT and hill repeat workouts from before are showing fruit. Even at my high weight, my perceived effort up some of the hills on my routes were not as bad or hard as i remember them from rides past.

    Yesterday I hit a milestone. I was able to a real easy/recovery ride for about 2 hrs at an avg HR of 119bpm (my max is 186) on a flatish course spinning mostly 39x19 & 39X17 gears and maintaining 15mph +/-. My HR never peaked over 135. For me that was a big deal. It means im getting fitter. When i was at my peak about 6 years ago, i could do easy/recovery effort rides at high 90's low 100s heart rates.

    The day before i did a solo Metric on a very hilly rolling route. I ride with a Garmin Legend C in my back pocket and upon review, it said that i did my highest sustained average during the last hour of the 3 1/2 hr ride. My legs were toast on Sunday, but my CV was working good. I think i just needed a break. And i lost another couple pounds too.

    Bottom line is im gonna recalculate my caloric needs and up them appropriately to allow for hard efforts and weight loss. Recovery is the lesson learned here for me.

    FYI - I do a 60/25/15 diet. Most of the carbs come from bagels, pastas, red & black beans and granola.
     
  8. Bobby Lex

    Bobby Lex New Member

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    Both LeMond and Armstrong point out in their books that Winter is the easiest time to lose weight because you're doing long, slower rides.

    Once you turn up the intensity in the Spring, your hunger pangs intensify so that it becomes extremely difficult to maintain the discipline necessary to restrict calories and keep losing weight.

    For the last two years I've lost 10 pounds each offseason from October to January, then maintained my weight throughout race season. It's the best I can do, because when I start doing intervals I have a barely-controllable urge to eat everything in sight.

    Bob
     
  9. Billsworld

    Billsworld New Member

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    I am trying to loose about 10 lbs right now too. My goals are a bit different than yours, and I can tell when I am too lean by whats happens when I squat in the gym. I never put much thought into carb sources untill the last year or two, but I have noticed that bread/pasta makes me a bit puffy.I can drop 6-7 lbs by just cutting way back on them. I sure miss my toaat and jam in the morning:( . If you have access to "competetive" bodybuilder (preferably a natural one that competes) they have decent advice as far as what time in the day to take in what carbs etc. Congrats on the progress
     
  10. FatguyRacer

    FatguyRacer New Member

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    Hi Bill,

    I dont have access, but i used to lift quite a bit during the 80's. My roommate at the time was a hard core bodybuilder. I've been spending all the years since then trying to lose all the bulk. Even during all my racing years during the 90's and upto 2001 I never was able to get below 185. It was all bad dieting. Im convinced of it. My change of eating habits over the last year has me convinced that i can get back to a reasonable 170-175 lbs. Im 6'0" tall. Had i not taken a break during Oct, Nov & Dec i would almost be there now. But my body needed the break after 4 months straight of riding and dropping nearly 20% of bodyweight. I was burned out to say the least. I did ride a couple of times to stay in touch, but not enough to maintain or lose weight. By January when i started to train in earnest again i had picked up 15 lbs. Frankly, i've had enough yo-yoing. The weight has got to go. If i dont get to peak race fitness by mid-summer, than so be it. I'll buy a cross-bike and give that a go in the fall and be ready for 2007.
     
  11. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    So did you put the part in about "natural one" to exclude me? :)


    (disclaimer: I've been clean since 1996)
     
  12. Billsworld

    Billsworld New Member

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    No, but you are are rare breed. You accually admit your......mistake?(I dnt know about your past exploits :) )I have found that the users had different advice and needs than I did. Am I out of line on that statement?
     
  13. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    I think you are on track with the statement.

    For lack of better words I would say the process is the same to meet the goal. The difference between the two is the ability to increase the intensity or training load with a potentially shorter recovery time.

    Training naturally is certainly a great challenge to find that fragile threshold of either training too hard resulting in injuries or burnout or training too easy and not keeping up with the competition.

    Now that I am away from the competitive scene (where I had to use) I can now enjoy training without using. I am enjoying the challenge both mentally and physically all though I hurt more and I am weaker. :)
     
  14. FatguyRacer

    FatguyRacer New Member

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    A little update.

    I decided to go with mixing intensity and endurance. As a result, im getting faster and losing weight. I guess i just needed to kick it up a notch.
     
  15. pepski

    pepski New Member

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    If somebody has mentioned this just ignore it, In my own experience, I find that a good heart rate monitor really helps a lot. when your biking, running or any cardio workout, try to keep your hr at a constant speed, when its slowing down
    increase the intesity of your workout vice versa. I'm using polar S150, can also be used as a bike computer! its an entry level monitor but it worked for me.
     
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