Higher average speed training

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by Volnix, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. Volnix

    Volnix Well-Known Member

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    Hi /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

    I am not sure that this is the correct title for this but anyway.

    At the moment I am going for rides every now and then, maybe 4 times a week some times, of at least 20km for a standard 'jog" ride and sometimes I go for bigger distances of 40 or maybe 60km a few times. I done a 90km ride once and got exhausted, mainly psychologically and my back started to hurt a bit so on the way back I was mainly riding on the bar (not the drops or the hoods).

    The thing is that I havent noticed any improvement at all in my ability to keep a higher speed pace. Or at my speed in general that is.

    There is a segment of 10km that I have done about 15 times by now. First time I did it I did it in 20min. After 15 times of doing it my best time is still 20min. I havent tried to go faster but I thought that I would "naturally" get faster after all these km's.

    In normal conditions, with a 10kg road bike in alu, with 95psi 700x25 tires I keep an average speed of about 26km/h. I can make some short "bursts" to go to a higher speed, but I soon get tired (my lungs start going heavy and I get a bit dizzy) and I cannot keep a higher speed for long.

    What kind of exercise is recomended so I will be able to keep a higher speed for longer periods on time? Or to make my average speed in the normal pace higher? I dont have an indoor trainer.

    Thanks /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
     
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  2. scottz123

    scottz123 New Member

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    Do you have a heart rate monitor?

    I would think this may help you
    http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspotpartdeux.html
     
  3. gudujarlson

    gudujarlson New Member

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    With that amount of cycling I don't think you will see a lot of gains riding around casually. I suggest each workout follow a protocol something like this:

    10-15 min easy riding
    20-40 min of riding 90% of the fastest you can ride for 20-40 min
    10-15 min easy riding

    Try to do this 4-6 times a week if you can. You can mix in other types of rides (for example 2-3 hours at a slower pace) as well and it won't hurt anything.

    This will approximate what a lot of people on this forum are doing and have found successful. The theory is that you are riding very close to your "lactate threshold" but not at or above it and are thus getting the biggest gains in aerobic fitness per unit of fatigue you are inducing. I don't think you need a heart rate monitor or a power meter, but they might add some metrics to help you monitor your workouts and measure fitness progress. See this thread for more information:

    It's killing me but..........
    http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/314849/its-killing-me-but
     
  4. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    You will get better if you record your times and distances and try to excede them. (I used to be able to remember my times and distance well enough.)

    Riding more will help also. Riding with a group will also help - if the group is a bit above your ability.

    ---

    Backs hurt. Feet hurt. Arms hurt. Legs hurt. As time passes your body gets used to the hurt and the hurt goes away.
     
  5. Volnix

    Volnix Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm might try that... thanks. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
     
  6. Volnix

    Volnix Well-Known Member

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    No I dont have one...
     
  7. tomw1974

    tomw1974 New Member

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    As many people have found, "just riding" will not make you faster. At some point, you have to intentionally go faster in order to get faster in general.

    Whether its intervals, long steady state rides, races, hill climbs, Strava segments, or whatever other structured or unstructured method you choose, at some point the only way to go faster is to push well outside the intensity where you are comfortable.
     
  8. dhk2

    dhk2 Active Member

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    Volnix, you've asked the question we all ask at some point. This forum is all about training to go faster, as is the Training with Power forum. For you, I wouldn't change your daily rides much at all, since you seem to enjoy them. I think the schedule proposed by gudujarlson is on the right track. But it's a huge jump in intensity and training stress from where you are now, so I'd suggest doing something like that no more than twice a week. Start with one 20 min interval, at a pace which gets you breathing a bit hard, but controllably, not gasping for breath. My guess is that it will be 28-30 kph, not alot faster than you're going now. The right pace should take a bit of focus to hold for 20 min, but not leave you gasping or in pain at the end of it.

    A little bit of intensity goes a long way in your training. Just once or twice a week for this interval, added to your regular daily rides, with plenty of recovery time in between is what I'd advise. No need to go over the top with the stress levels since you're not a racer. Don't expect improvements from week-to-week, but believe you'll be surprised at the progress over a few months.
     
  9. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    A lot of good advice above, but these two sum it up nicely or to really get down to basics:

    - Ride your bike a lot
    - Don't be afraid to ride harder and challenge yourself to ride faster on days when you feel good
    - When you do ride faster and harder, focus on longer sustained efforts not thirty seconds or a minute of gut busting sprinting here and there but ten, fifteen, twenty minutes or even longer of riding a bit above your current comfort zone to the point where you're breathing deeply and steadily and it takes focus to avoid backing off the pace.
    - Don't do the harder stuff on every ride

    Do those things and your speed will increase but don't expect over night results as mentioned above, this stuff takes time.

    Good luck,
    -Dave
     
  10. Volnix

    Volnix Well-Known Member

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    I might try to find a nice segment to do some sprinting once in a while, problem is that I live in a "Borg cube" type of city and if I dont want to train in hundreds of cars and potholes I have to cycle for 20min to get to an open road first..

    Might try to do the 20 min as a "warming up" then make a small sprint in the open and then have another relaxed 20min back... Or maybe just get an indoor trainer. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif
     
  11. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    Did you miss the part above about NOT making your harder efforts short sprint type work?

    If you want to ride faster then occasionally push beyond your comfort zone with SUSTAINED efforts, ideally sustained efforts 15, 20, 30 minutes or longer at a stretch that get you breathing deeply and steadily and require focus but save the short intense sprinting work for icing on the cake AFTER you've developed quite a bit of sustainable speed, power and general aerobic fitness on the bike.

    Maybe by 'small sprint in the open' you mean a sustained higher speed effort, but if you really want to move your fitness and general riding speed forward you should focus on sustained efforts, not 30 seconds or a minute here and there of all out speed.

    FWIW, I also live in a city and it's 45 minutes to the closest stretch of road where I can do a 20 minute interval without traffic lights or interruptions. PITA for sure but find ways to work it into your training and you'll get faster.

    -Dave
     
    Dave Cutter likes this.
  12. Volnix

    Volnix Well-Known Member

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    Yeah basically thats what I ment. I was not talking about very short crazy speed sprints, just a few minutes of more then regular effort, after which I can still ride home without being exhausted.

    Yeah its pretty bad in the cities, I might have a look for an indoor trainer...
     
  13. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    That makes more sense, just keep an emphasis on that sustainable part as in make those faster than normal efforts in the range of 15 minutes or longer at the very minimum shoot for at least 10 uninterrupted minutes of steady faster than normal riding that gets you breathing deeply and steadily and requires a lot of focus to stay on task. You shouldn't be totally blowing up or gasping with out of control breathing or you're trying for too much. Think 'steady hard' pacing and if you can stretch those sections longer without long pauses (keep all pauses much less than 30 seconds if possible or try to find alternate routes that allow longer stretches).

    That's how you build sustainable power and overall cycling fitness to ride faster speeds, through sustained efforts just above your current comfort zone but not crazy hard that you can't actually sustain for more than a couple of minutes at a time.

    Good luck and let us know how the training goes,
    -Dave
     
  14. Bigpikle

    Bigpikle New Member

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    Dave's advice above is spot on.

    I think you need to do 2 things:

    1. ride a lot more Km's - either more regularly or more likely you need to make your typical 'jog' ride 40-50km, with 70-100km as a long ride

    2. find a way to do 10/20/30 min steady hard efforts above your normally sustainable pace

    Best thing I ever did was find some good flat routes with minimal junctions and stops and just ride 1-3 hours non-stop with lots and lots of time spent at that 20 min hard pace, in blocks of a minimum 10-12 mins. It boosted my endurance, av speed and hill climbing and has transformed my riding over the last couple of years. The key is the sustained efforts that Dave talks about, combined with lots of distance.
     
  15. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    Most people train with what they have. There is no need to do 20-30 minute efforts. They are helpful, but not necessary.

    When I was young, I had a job. Every morning and every evening I rode 14 miles. A stop sign every mile. More traffic than I would like. Every 3 minutes - sprint up to 25mph, hold what I could until the next stop sign, stop and wait for my turn to go.

    ---

    It is getting warm enough now and I do have some open roads around. 4 - 30 minute efforts seems like a nice daily ride.
     
  16. Volnix

    Volnix Well-Known Member

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    Thats the problem at the moment (finding a place to make the 15-30 min uninterrupted efforts). But by making a longer ride I might be able to go somewhere where there is no traffic - traffic lights etc...
     
  17. TShame

    TShame New Member

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    Doing 10 km in 20 minutes and looking to improve.
    Ok so that's 26-30 km per hour.
    Regardless of speed, if you aren't improving, try this:

    Break your ride in half a-c becomes a-b/ rest 5 minutes/ b-c (where point b is the middle)

    The sum of those two times is what you are capable of in one ride.
    Some will ride again and do just one minute of rest.

    Then try the ride in 4 pieces (3k, 3k, 3k, 1k).
    Then try the 3k pace for two 5k sections.

    You have to force yourself to go faster, even if your second half is slower than your first half.
     
  18. edd

    edd New Member

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    Having better higher speed is not only about general fitness, there is bike specific issues as well. Obviously you will have a less higher average speed on a hilly ride than you will on a flatter road or if you encounter wind.

    Maintaining a high cadence (95-110) at high bike speeds will do wonders to improve higher average speeds, however you have to train yourself at this to be able to do this.
     
  19. edd

    edd New Member

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    no copy right on this, it's my file
     

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