HIIT help, please



Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> On 2006-01-09, Dally <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Depending on your conditioning, this might mean you jog at 4.0 mph for 5
>>minutes, then sprint at 7.0 mph, then walk at 3.0 for 30 seconds, ramp
>>it back up to 4.0 as soon as possible, and then go up to 5.5 before you
>>hit 7.0 again.

>
>
> Please don't use 7.0mph and "sprint" in the same sentence (unless 7.0 refers
> to a recovery plod in between sprints!) Even you can "sprint" faster than
> that (I hope!).


Yes, I "sprint" at faster than 7.0. But not much - I've got stumpy legs
and am pitifully slow. But I've also been training for a couple of
years and can run for miles and miles. The OP is walking in between
"sprints". I suspect his conditioning is pretty poor.

I also acknowledge that these aren't sprints. Accelerations might be a
better term.

Dally
 
Donovan Rebbechi <[email protected]> writes:

> On 2006-01-09, Jason Earl <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Where can I get more info on GXP? Personally, I don't see Tabata
>> sprints as being much more dangerous than a rousing game of soccer,

>
> One of the main differences is that if you're playing that rousing
> game of soccer, you have a fairly solid base of "soccer
> running". Most of the people who start doing these interval workouts
> are coming from doing absolutely no running.


Yeah, if you have trouble jogging for a mile without walking then you
probably shouldn't jump into Tabata sprints. On the other hand you
could probably do worse than try to lumber through a few sets of
sprints. Especially if you are still young and don't have a history
of heart problems.

I mean, seriously, it's only 4 minutes, right? :)

Jason
 
On 2006-01-10, Jason Earl <[email protected]> wrote:

> Yeah, if you have trouble jogging for a mile without walking then you
> probably shouldn't jump into Tabata sprints. On the other hand you
> could probably do worse than try to lumber through a few sets of
> sprints. Especially if you are still young and don't have a history
> of heart problems.


Not really the issue, you're more likely to hurt your connective tissues than
your heart. My understanding is that most running related fatalities are
related to hydration and electrolytes during long races (especially in warm
weather).

> I mean, seriously, it's only 4 minutes, right? :)


I take it you've never raced a mile. 4 minutes can be a really long time.


Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
Donovan Rebbechi <[email protected]> writes:

> On 2006-01-10, Jason Earl <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, if you have trouble jogging for a mile without walking then
>> you probably shouldn't jump into Tabata sprints. On the other hand
>> you could probably do worse than try to lumber through a few sets
>> of sprints. Especially if you are still young and don't have a
>> history of heart problems.

>
> Not really the issue, you're more likely to hurt your connective
> tissues than your heart. My understanding is that most running
> related fatalities are related to hydration and electrolytes during
> long races (especially in warm weather).


Ah, that makes much more sense. So is four minutes of sprinting
really that much more damaging than jogging for twenty minutes or so?
Honestly, I don't have a clue.

>> I mean, seriously, it's only 4 minutes, right? :)

>
> I take it you've never raced a mile. 4 minutes can be a really long
> time.


If I could run a 4 minute mile, I wouldn't be so down on long distance
running. A huge part of the reason I don't like distance running is I
don't like losing :).

That being the case, I am planning on racing several of my
brothers-in-law in a 10K race at the end of July. Any pointers on
getting prepared? I've never raced anywhere near that far.
Theoretically I could ask in a running newsgroup, but I wouldn't know
which of those crazies are trustworthy :). Besides, most of the stuff
I have seen on the web for preparing for a 10K seems to assume that I
won't be doing anything but running, and I don't like the idea of
giving up weight training.

Thanks
Jason
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> okay:
>
> I'm 13 years old.
>
> I'm in FREAKING TERRIBLE shape. I can only JOG a little more than a
> quarter of a mile.


Sorry to hear that. Are you a bit overweight as well? What is your diet
like? Do you play any sports? Don't worry, we'll have you in shape in no
time.
 
On 2006-01-10, Jason Earl <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ah, that makes much more sense. So is four minutes of sprinting
> really that much more damaging than jogging for twenty minutes or so?


Yes. Put it this way -- I can do about 90 min jogging a day, as long as
the "jogging" is slow enough.

But I doubt I could do 4 minutes of real sprinting in a day. I suppose I could
do something like 8x200m but they wouldn't really be all out sprints (maybe
about 800m pace)

>>> I mean, seriously, it's only 4 minutes, right? :)

>>
>> I take it you've never raced a mile. 4 minutes can be a really long
>> time.

>
> If I could run a 4 minute mile, I wouldn't be so down on long distance
> running.


It's OK, it doesn't start to hurt until after the first quarter or half of
the race. But the last part is realllllly long.

> A huge part of the reason I don't like distance running is I
> don't like losing :).
>
> That being the case, I am planning on racing several of my
> brothers-in-law in a 10K race at the end of July. Any pointers on
> getting prepared?


That gives you enough time to prepare pretty well. Some basics:

- do a lot of easy running, and a small amount of hard running.
- make the easy running really easy. My 10k race pace is ~5:30/mile and I
do my easy runs at 7:30-8:30/mile.
- do everything gradually. For example, start at a comfortable amount of
mileage, and increase by say 10% every 3 weeks.
- you don't need two days to recover from a training run, so you can run
5-6 days a week. Just keep intervals and squats as far apart as possible.
- don't make each run the same length. Make some shorter, and some longer.
- intervals: maybe one interval session a week is good. For a 10k, a total of
about 15 minutes of hard running is about right. For example, 4-6x800m
depending on how fast you are. If you're running 5x a week, add a fartlek
session as well.

> which of those crazies are trustworthy :). Besides, most of the stuff
> I have seen on the web for preparing for a 10K seems to assume that I
> won't be doing anything but running, and I don't like the idea of
> giving up weight training.


Weight training isn't a problem. What I'd recommend is doing easy runs after
weight training sessions as a cool down. But do your interval workouts on
days you're not lifting.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
On 2006-01-10, Dally <[email protected]> wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>> On 2006-01-09, Dally <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Depending on your conditioning, this might mean you jog at 4.0 mph for 5
>>>minutes, then sprint at 7.0 mph, then walk at 3.0 for 30 seconds, ramp
>>>it back up to 4.0 as soon as possible, and then go up to 5.5 before you
>>>hit 7.0 again.

>>
>>
>> Please don't use 7.0mph and "sprint" in the same sentence (unless 7.0 refers
>> to a recovery plod in between sprints!) Even you can "sprint" faster than
>> that (I hope!).

>
> Yes, I "sprint" at faster than 7.0. But not much - I've got stumpy legs
> and am pitifully slow.


You'd probably surprise yourself. Put it this way -- pace for a hard interval
workout (e.g. 6-7x 70 seconds for a total of 8 min hard running or so) would
put me around mile pace (about 4:40 of all-out running -- so that's 800m
pace or so for the slowpokes ... ) But I can certainly sprint quite a bit
faster than my mile pace (35s/200m) I'd say I'd start to feel like I'm
sprinting at around 30s/200m. So I'm guessing you could sprint another 20%
faster too.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
On 2006-01-11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> okay:
>
> I'm 13 years old.
>
> I'm in FREAKING TERRIBLE shape. I can only JOG a little more than a
> quarter of a mile.


First, if you want to try running, I'd suggest the following:

Jog really slowly.

Take walk breaks as needed. In fact start by putting "jogging breaks" into
walking.

The aim is just to cover some distance. In fact, walk all the way if you like.
Just cover distance. The more distance you can cover, the better. I cover as
much as 90 miles in a week, and I can assure anyone that it really is easier
to cover that distance by running -- so eventually you will get to the point
where you are fit enough to run all the time. But more importantly, even if I
did cover that distance by walking, I'd still burn a lot of calories (though
it would take forever ... ) So focus on covering distance, and don't sweat it
too much if you need to take some walk breaks in the process.

Training is a daily grind, you don't need to make every training session a big
athletic achievement in itself. Just get better at covering distance.

Forget about HIIT for now. Burn some calories and don't get injured. Covering
distance is what burns calories. Doesn't matter how fast you cover a mile, the
number of calories burned is about the same.

HTH,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
Jason Earl <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Hobbes <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Jason Earl <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> JRH <[email protected]> writes:
>>>
>>> > On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 11:44:44 -0600, Hobbes <[email protected]>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>In article <[email protected]>,
>>> >> [email protected] wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Would this workout be good for HIIT?
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Wake up at 5:30 AM, stretch, warm-up walking for 2-3
>>> >>> minutes, then sprint for a minute (making sure I'm out of
>>> >>> breath), walk for a minute and a half, and repeat until the
>>> >>> timer gets to 15. Then walk for 5 minutes at a slow pace, get
>>> >>> off the treadmill, and wait an hour to eat breakfast and then
>>> >>> go to school.
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>2 intervals isn't very much.
>>> >>
>>> >>Do a google search for "Tabata Interval" for a more scientific
>>> >>approach.
>>> >
>>> > It is considered that the Graded Exercise Protocol (GXP) can be
>>> > just as effective as Tabata, without the inherent health/heart
>>> > risks for the average person with limited time available.
>>>
>>> Where can I get more info on GXP? Personally, I don't see Tabata
>>> sprints as being much more dangerous than a rousing game of soccer,
>>> and I really like how Tabata-style drills make me feel (after I
>>> recover), but I am certainly interested in hearing more about
>>> something that is still effective without being as murderously
>>> intense.

>>
>> AFAIK there is no data supporting the effectiveness of the GXP,
>> unlike the Tabata which has been exhaustively studied. The main idea
>> is that it is easier for the average person to perform and effective
>> enough for normal fitness needs.

>
> Yeah, that's what I came up with too. However, I can see how GXP
> would be useful in cases where your goals didn't require much aerobic
> fitness (or if you just wanted to do the minimum amount necessary to
> gain most of the health benefits of exercise).
>
> Jason
>


Trouble with all those links is they all assume rolling around on the
floor howling with pain and struggling for breath is a BAD thing.

Seriously, I like the afterglow from Tabatas. And I want the extra aerobic
capacity for Aikido. I'm happier with something extreme--it wakes me up
and gets me to pay attention.

As a side note, I did Tabatas again this week after about 6 months off,
inspired by this thread and picked up pretty much where I left off--same
weight, same reps, same degree of exhaustion at the end. I assumed I'd
have lost more in that time.

Hugh



--
Exercise is a dirty word. Whenever I hear it, I wash my mouth out with
chocolate. ("Ladi")
 
[email protected] wrote:
> okay:
>
> I'm 13 years old.
>
> I'm in FREAKING TERRIBLE shape. I can only JOG a little more than a
> quarter of a mile.


Google the "Couch to 5K" program and work on that. You'll make
amazingly fast progress.

I'm concerned about a couple of things, though. I've got a couple of
kids your age and the chances of them getting up at 5:30 every morning
to exercise are vastly approximate to zero. Are you setting yourself up
for failure by requiring something unreasonable?

I like to do HIIT before my morning shower because I get the exercise
out of the way first thing, but your plan of "waiting an hour to eat
breakfast" is pretty suspect. How about you get off the treadmill and
put some oatmeal in the microwave, go shower, and come back and eat it?

Also, the treadmill is an excruciatingly boring way to get in exercise.
At your age you could be on a basketball team or skiing or some other
winter activity that involves being with friends and having fun. Think
about how to get in shape while enjoying yourself. What can you add to
your life?

If you must use the treadmill, consider listening to music. I find my
iPod really makes the minutes tick by.

I liked HIIT for fat loss and speed work, but for laying down an aerobic
base you're better off leaving intensity alone and just work on covering
the distance at a slow jog. Very, very, very slow jog. You should be
trying to go 30 minutes without stopping to walk, and the key to doing
that is to go so very slowly that you can keep it up for an entire 30
minutes. You'll be surprised at how fast you'll improve.

Good for you for getting off your butt, by the way.

Dally
 
Donovan Rebbechi <[email protected]> writes:

> On 2006-01-10, Jason Earl <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ah, that makes much more sense. So is four minutes of sprinting
>> really that much more damaging than jogging for twenty minutes or so?

>
> Yes. Put it this way -- I can do about 90 min jogging a day, as long
> as the "jogging" is slow enough.
>
> But I doubt I could do 4 minutes of real sprinting in a day. I
> suppose I could do something like 8x200m but they wouldn't really be
> all out sprints (maybe about 800m pace)
>
>>>> I mean, seriously, it's only 4 minutes, right? :)
>>>
>>> I take it you've never raced a mile. 4 minutes can be a really
>>> long time.

>>
>> If I could run a 4 minute mile, I wouldn't be so down on long
>> distance running.

>
> It's OK, it doesn't start to hurt until after the first quarter or
> half of the race. But the last part is realllllly long.
>
>> A huge part of the reason I don't like distance running is I don't
>> like losing :).
>>
>> That being the case, I am planning on racing several of my
>> brothers-in-law in a 10K race at the end of July. Any pointers on
>> getting prepared?

>
> That gives you enough time to prepare pretty well. Some basics:


Well, that's encouraging.

> - do a lot of easy running, and a small amount of hard running.


I assume that the 800m intervals count as hard, right?

> - make the easy running really easy. My 10k race pace is ~5:30/mile and I
> do my easy runs at 7:30-8:30/mile.


Hmm... At some point it is hard to move any slower and still be
jogging.

> - do everything gradually. For example, start at a comfortable amount of
> mileage, and increase by say 10% every 3 weeks.


Ok, that makes sense. What would be the max I would want to work up
to? The full distance, twice the full distance, clear to California?

> - you don't need two days to recover from a training run, so you can
> run 5-6 days a week. Just keep intervals and squats as far apart as
> possible.


When I first started lifting I made the mistake of doing heavy
deadlifts and a big hill run on consecutive days. I nearly was forced
to hitchhike back home.

> - don't make each run the same length. Make some shorter, and some
> longer.


Vary run lengths. Perfect.

> - intervals: maybe one interval session a week is good. For a 10k, a
> total of about 15 minutes of hard running is about right. For
> example, 4-6x800m depending on how fast you are. If you're running
> 5x a week, add a fartlek session as well.


I am slow, but I won't need to be too very fast to dominate my
brothers-in-law. Two of them run a couple of times a week, and a
third is very active but not a runner. Between the four of us we are
probably currently fairly well matched (we are all slow :).

I don't know how to thank you for this. That ought to get me pointed
in the right direction.

>> which of those crazies are trustworthy :). Besides, most of the
>> stuff I have seen on the web for preparing for a 10K seems to
>> assume that I won't be doing anything but running, and I don't like
>> the idea of giving up weight training.

>
> Weight training isn't a problem. What I'd recommend is doing easy
> runs after weight training sessions as a cool down. But do your
> interval workouts on days you're not lifting.


I'll probably have to at least modify my weight training. My current
workout is heavy on front squats and power cleans. I can't imagine
going for an *easy* run when I finish. Then again, if I only have to
steer clear of the interval day, and I can vary the run lengths then I
should be able to come up with something. I'll try it this week, and
see how it goes.

Thanks again,
Jason
 
Hugh Beyer <[email protected]> writes:

<big snip>

> Trouble with all those links is they all assume rolling around on
> the floor howling with pain and struggling for breath is a BAD
> thing.
>
> Seriously, I like the afterglow from Tabatas. And I want the extra
> aerobic capacity for Aikido. I'm happier with something extreme--it
> wakes me up and gets me to pay attention.
>
> As a side note, I did Tabatas again this week after about 6 months
> off, inspired by this thread and picked up pretty much where I left
> off--same weight, same reps, same degree of exhaustion at the end. I
> assumed I'd have lost more in that time.
>
> Hugh


I agree. After a round of Tabata thrusters you certainly feel like
you have done something hard, and that's a good thing.

Jason
 
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:28:39 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2006-01-10, Jason Earl <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ah, that makes much more sense. So is four minutes of sprinting
>> really that much more damaging than jogging for twenty minutes or so?

>
>Yes. Put it this way -- I can do about 90 min jogging a day, as long as
>the "jogging" is slow enough.
>
>But I doubt I could do 4 minutes of real sprinting in a day. I suppose I could
>do something like 8x200m but they wouldn't really be all out sprints (maybe
>about 800m pace)


And therein lies the problem with Tabata and why GXP is probably more
advisable for the sedentary type wanting to try interval training. The
problem is that "sprinting" is essentially an anaerobic activity,
whereby an oxygen debt is built up, and if the heart and lungs aren't
capable of servicing that oxygen debt, then it's 'good-night' chaps.

http://www.cbass.com/Tabata_GXP.htm

>
>>>> I mean, seriously, it's only 4 minutes, right? :)
>>>
>>> I take it you've never raced a mile. 4 minutes can be a really long
>>> time.

>>
>> If I could run a 4 minute mile, I wouldn't be so down on long distance
>> running.

>
>It's OK, it doesn't start to hurt until after the first quarter or half of
>the race. But the last part is realllllly long.
>
>> A huge part of the reason I don't like distance running is I
>> don't like losing :).
>>
>> That being the case, I am planning on racing several of my
>> brothers-in-law in a 10K race at the end of July. Any pointers on
>> getting prepared?

>
>That gives you enough time to prepare pretty well. Some basics:
>
>- do a lot of easy running, and a small amount of hard running.
>- make the easy running really easy. My 10k race pace is ~5:30/mile and I
>do my easy runs at 7:30-8:30/mile.
>- do everything gradually. For example, start at a comfortable amount of
>mileage, and increase by say 10% every 3 weeks.
>- you don't need two days to recover from a training run, so you can run
>5-6 days a week. Just keep intervals and squats as far apart as possible.
>- don't make each run the same length. Make some shorter, and some longer.
>- intervals: maybe one interval session a week is good. For a 10k, a total of
>about 15 minutes of hard running is about right. For example, 4-6x800m
>depending on how fast you are. If you're running 5x a week, add a fartlek
>session as well.
>
>> which of those crazies are trustworthy :). Besides, most of the stuff
>> I have seen on the web for preparing for a 10K seems to assume that I
>> won't be doing anything but running, and I don't like the idea of
>> giving up weight training.

>
>Weight training isn't a problem. What I'd recommend is doing easy runs after
>weight training sessions as a cool down. But do your interval workouts on
>days you're not lifting.


Time is often a factor here and there is no reason why a 20-30 minute
CV session should not be incorporated into a workout following a
weight-training schedule. Thus, there is also no reason why interval
training shouldn't form the basis of that CV session, provided it is
not too strenuous.

While being aware of heart rate (HR) monitors I still recommend the
rate of perceived exertion a (RPE) s the simplest method of deciding
how hard to exercise.

See:
http://www.fitnwell.net/Your BMI.htm#RPE
 
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 04:00:36 GMT, Hugh Beyer <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Jason Earl <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> Hobbes <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> Jason Earl <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> JRH <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 11:44:44 -0600, Hobbes <[email protected]>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> >> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Would this workout be good for HIIT?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Wake up at 5:30 AM, stretch, warm-up walking for 2-3
>>>> >>> minutes, then sprint for a minute (making sure I'm out of
>>>> >>> breath), walk for a minute and a half, and repeat until the
>>>> >>> timer gets to 15. Then walk for 5 minutes at a slow pace, get
>>>> >>> off the treadmill, and wait an hour to eat breakfast and then
>>>> >>> go to school.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>2 intervals isn't very much.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Do a google search for "Tabata Interval" for a more scientific
>>>> >>approach.
>>>> >
>>>> > It is considered that the Graded Exercise Protocol (GXP) can be
>>>> > just as effective as Tabata, without the inherent health/heart
>>>> > risks for the average person with limited time available.
>>>>
>>>> Where can I get more info on GXP? Personally, I don't see Tabata
>>>> sprints as being much more dangerous than a rousing game of soccer,
>>>> and I really like how Tabata-style drills make me feel (after I
>>>> recover), but I am certainly interested in hearing more about
>>>> something that is still effective without being as murderously
>>>> intense.
>>>
>>> AFAIK there is no data supporting the effectiveness of the GXP,
>>> unlike the Tabata which has been exhaustively studied. The main idea
>>> is that it is easier for the average person to perform and effective
>>> enough for normal fitness needs.

>>
>> Yeah, that's what I came up with too. However, I can see how GXP
>> would be useful in cases where your goals didn't require much aerobic
>> fitness (or if you just wanted to do the minimum amount necessary to
>> gain most of the health benefits of exercise).
>>
>> Jason
>>

>
>Trouble with all those links is they all assume rolling around on the
>floor howling with pain and struggling for breath is a BAD thing.
>
>Seriously, I like the afterglow from Tabatas. And I want the extra aerobic
>capacity for Aikido. I'm happier with something extreme--it wakes me up
>and gets me to pay attention.
>
>As a side note, I did Tabatas again this week after about 6 months off,
>inspired by this thread and picked up pretty much where I left off--same
>weight, same reps, same degree of exhaustion at the end. I assumed I'd
>have lost more in that time.
>


That's fine for a trained athlete Hugh, but as I said earlier, one
size does not fit all. When giving general fitness advice here, one
should always be aware that many people of different levels of fitness
may be taking the advice that is offered, which may well be unsuitable
for them.
 
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:34:43 -0700, Jason Earl <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Hugh Beyer <[email protected]> writes:
>
><big snip>
>
>> Trouble with all those links is they all assume rolling around on
>> the floor howling with pain and struggling for breath is a BAD
>> thing.
>>
>> Seriously, I like the afterglow from Tabatas. And I want the extra
>> aerobic capacity for Aikido. I'm happier with something extreme--it
>> wakes me up and gets me to pay attention.
>>
>> As a side note, I did Tabatas again this week after about 6 months
>> off, inspired by this thread and picked up pretty much where I left
>> off--same weight, same reps, same degree of exhaustion at the end. I
>> assumed I'd have lost more in that time.
>>
>> Hugh

>
>I agree. After a round of Tabata thrusters you certainly feel like
>you have done something hard, and that's a good thing.
>


But not for everyone Jason; it's important not to encourage people who
do not already have a good standard of physical fitness, to adopt HIIT
with intense anaerobic content. ;o)
 
On 2006-01-11, Jason Earl <[email protected]> wrote:
>> - do a lot of easy running, and a small amount of hard running.

>
> I assume that the 800m intervals count as hard, right?


Yeah, that's a good workout to do.

>> - make the easy running really easy. My 10k race pace is ~5:30/mile and I
>> do my easy runs at 7:30-8:30/mile.

>
> Hmm... At some point it is hard to move any slower and still be
> jogging.


That point would be around 12 minutes a mile. If you can't comfortably
maintain 12 minutes per mile, take walk breaks until you can.

>> - do everything gradually. For example, start at a comfortable amount of
>> mileage, and increase by say 10% every 3 weeks.

>
> Ok, that makes sense. What would be the max I would want to work up
> to? The full distance, twice the full distance, clear to California?


Better to think in terms of time duration.

You should aim to do a "long run" every one to two weeks. Ultimately you
should build these up to around 90 minutes.

Other training runs should be in the 30-50 minute range. I'd recommend
starting with 30 minutes, taking walk breaks if necessary. There's absolutely
nothing wrong with taking walk breaks -- you're just aiming to cover the
distance. Running is inherently intense, you will get bored well before you
drop below the right intensity.

> When I first started lifting I made the mistake of doing heavy
> deadlifts and a big hill run on consecutive days. I nearly was forced
> to hitchhike back home.


Ouch!

> I am slow, but I won't need to be too very fast to dominate my
> brothers-in-law. Two of them run a couple of times a week, and a
> third is very active but not a runner. Between the four of us we are
> probably currently fairly well matched (we are all slow :).


OK, make sure you post a race report when it happens. Sounds like you have
the beginnings of a good story.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
On 2006-01-11, Hugh Beyer <[email protected]> wrote:

> Trouble with all those links is they all assume rolling around on the
> floor howling with pain and struggling for breath is a BAD thing.


Hahahaha ... the trouble with the knucklehead crowd is that they think that
the goal of the workout is to prove ones manhood.

Theatrical displays of pain might give one a sense of achievement but it's
really not necessary or even effective.

> Seriously, I like the afterglow from Tabatas. And I want the extra aerobic
> capacity for Aikido. I'm happier with something extreme--


See above

> it wakes me up and gets me to pay attention.
>
> As a side note, I did Tabatas again this week after about 6 months off,


That's pretty silly (from a training perspective that is. From a "proving your
manhood" perspective, maybe it's ingeneous)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
Donovan Rebbechi <[email protected]> writes:

> On 2006-01-11, Jason Earl <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> - do a lot of easy running, and a small amount of hard running.

>>
>> I assume that the 800m intervals count as hard, right?

>
> Yeah, that's a good workout to do.
>
>>> - make the easy running really easy. My 10k race pace is
>>> ~5:30/mile and I do my easy runs at 7:30-8:30/mile.

>>
>> Hmm... At some point it is hard to move any slower and still be
>> jogging.

>
> That point would be around 12 minutes a mile. If you can't
> comfortably maintain 12 minutes per mile, take walk breaks until you
> can.


OK, that's good to know. I believe that I can maintain that speed for
quite a while already.

>>> - do everything gradually. For example, start at a comfortable amount of
>>> mileage, and increase by say 10% every 3 weeks.

>>
>> Ok, that makes sense. What would be the max I would want to work
>> up to? The full distance, twice the full distance, clear to
>> California?

>
> Better to think in terms of time duration.


<light dawns> Ah, I get it. Heck, even when I used to run I always
had a distance that I was going to run and I tried to decrease the
time. It would appear now that the goal is to run for a certain
amount of time and increase the distance (slowly over time).

> You should aim to do a "long run" every one to two weeks. Ultimately
> you should build these up to around 90 minutes.


90 minutes is what you mean by "long run" and I don't have to do this
every week. That sounds perfectly manageable.

> Other training runs should be in the 30-50 minute range. I'd
> recommend starting with 30 minutes, taking walk breaks if
> necessary. There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking walk breaks
> -- you're just aiming to cover the distance. Running is inherently
> intense, you will get bored well before you drop below the right
> intensity.


Watch out for boredom, check.

>> When I first started lifting I made the mistake of doing heavy
>> deadlifts and a big hill run on consecutive days. I nearly was
>> forced to hitchhike back home.

>
> Ouch!


Yeah, that was double plus ungood.

>> I am slow, but I won't need to be too very fast to dominate my
>> brothers-in-law. Two of them run a couple of times a week, and a
>> third is very active but not a runner. Between the four of us we
>> are probably currently fairly well matched (we are all slow :).

>
> OK, make sure you post a race report when it happens. Sounds like
> you have the beginnings of a good story.


You know Donovan, I am actually starting to look forward to this.
I've got one more of my regular scheduled programs to do (I am hoping
to set some unofficial PRs today), and tomorrow I will start. I will
definitely post reports on my progress. Thanks again.

Jason
 
On 2006-01-11, Jason Earl <[email protected]> wrote:

><light dawns> Ah, I get it. Heck, even when I used to run I always
> had a distance that I was going to run and I tried to decrease the
> time. It would appear now that the goal is to run for a certain
> amount of time and increase the distance (slowly over time).


Exactly. You can use your interval workouts to check up on your progress
but don't worry about training runs. Also, that encourages you to hammer
your intervals (good) and not hammer your aerobic training runs (which is bad)

For what it's worth, I don't do my training runs any faster now (34:xx for 10k)
than when I started out (20:xx for 5k). I've always done most of them in the
7-8 minute per mile range. Your training runs may well get faster as your
fitness improves, but it doesn't matter if they don't.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/