Hills - the ruse?

[i2ambler]

Originally posted by TheDude
9% is a pretty steep hill, so feel good about it! Fitness is important, but so is proper gearing on your cassette. If you'll be riding lots of hills, you'll want to make sure you have a wide enough range to avoid heart burst...

I dont think I have a wide enough range for these hills.. I also noted later that my freaking rear brake was rubbing ever so slightly. I bought a 2002 bike from a guy who did all crits, and its geared for all flats. How do I find out what Im running in the back? Its a dura-ace cassette.. He said he 'swapped it out' because he never rode hills. I, however, want to increase fitness by riding some hills.

 

[TheDude]

Originally posted by i2ambler
I dont think I have a wide enough range for these hills.. I also noted later that my freaking rear brake was rubbing ever so slightly. I bought a 2002 bike from a guy who did all crits, and its geared for all flats. How do I find out what Im running in the back? Its a dura-ace cassette.. He said he 'swapped it out' because he never rode hills. I, however, want to increase fitness by riding some hills.

If he did crits, then he's probably got something like an 11-21. That means 11 teeth on the small ring and 21 on the large. If the cassette is clean, you can read the markings on the side to see how many teeth. Otherwise, you'll have to count them. You might want to get a cassette with a 12-25 range, or even bigger if necessary.

BTW, if you're new to cycling, cassettes and chains wear out, and they wear together. Here's a good discussion on chain wear link

 

[i2ambler]

Originally posted by TheDude
If he did crits, then he's probably got something like an 11-21. That means 11 teeth on the small ring and 21 on the large. If the cassette is clean, you can read the markings on the side to see how many teeth. Otherwise, you'll have to count them. You might want to get a cassette with a 12-25 range, or even bigger if necessary.

BTW, if you're new to cycling, cassettes and chains wear out, and they wear together. Here's a good discussion on chain wear link

ahh I looked for markings, but didnt see any. I dont want to take apart the cassette to see them. I will count and find out. if its 21, then I surely need something like a 25.

WIll there be a /great/ difference between the 21 and 25?

 

[TheDude]

Originally posted by i2ambler
WIll there be a /great/ difference between the 21 and 25?

Absolutely. Cycling and gears is all about what's called 'gear-inches'. Basically, it's the number of inches your bike will go forward for one pedal stroke in any given gear combination. The longer the distance, the harder it is to push the pedals; the shorter the distance the easier to push the pedals.

Go to this page and enter your gear information for both the front and back. You'll also need to measure your wheel diameter. After doing so, you'll get a nice little custom report explaining just what the difference is between gears. Print one for your bike setup, and then change the cassette numbers to something you might like to try. You'll then be able to compare the two.

If you're not sure what 'standard' cassette offerings are available, you can go to www.coloradocyclist.com and look up Durace cassettes and check out the different sizes.

 

[VeloFlash]

Originally posted by Spider1977
Use an instrument called a clinometer. You can make a simple one a protractor (one of those things you used to measure angles in high school) and a plumb bob. Just line the flat axis of the protractor parallel with the hill, drop the plumb bob from the centre and read off the angle. Alternatively you can go and buy a clinometer for about $200. Some swanky 4WD's have them on the dash.
Otherwise just forget it and go surfing - it's more fun.

The instrument is known as an inclinometer but it only measures angles in degrees. It is also used to assist in installing satellite dishes.

To obtain a % gradient you would need to know the base distance on the horizontal, elevation at starting point and elevation at finishing point.

The problem with calculating the base or horizontal is that roads up high hills/mountains meander so a direct horizontal from A to B would result in a steeper gradient than actual.

I would consider surveyors would use GPS equipment to measure horizontal distance and height over each straight section of the climb and aggregate the distances to calculate an average gradient.

J-Mat - I was only pulling your chain!

 

[TheDude]

Originally posted by VeloFlash
The instrument is known as an inclinometer but it only measures angles in degrees. It is also used to assist in installing satellite dishes.

To obtain a % gradient you would need to know the base distance on the horizontal, elevation at starting point and elevation at finishing point.

Unless I'm missing something, can't you just convert radians to % grade? It will, of course, only be the angle/grade at any given point.

 

[VeloFlash]

Originally posted by TheDude
Unless I'm missing something, can't you just convert radians to % grade? It will, of course, only be the angle/grade at any given point.

Of course. There are angle tools around that will provide this information to calculate percentage gradients. But remember that unless a detailed profile of the hill/mountain is displayed showing percentage grades over sections, the majority of gradient information relates to an average percentage of the total climb.

 

[i2ambler]

Originally posted by VeloFlash
Of course. There are angle tools around that will provide this information to calculate percentage gradients. But remember that unless a detailed profile of the hill/mountain is displayed showing percentage grades over sections, the majority of gradient information relates to an average percentage of the total climb.

We can, instead of using scientific rhetoric, just use this measuring device!!

Easiest
Easy
heartrates a risin'
hmm legs feeling hot
ouch, legs REALLY burning now!
Whoa, heart exploding
'Dead'

 

[Spider1977]

Originally posted by VeloFlash
The instrument is known as an inclinometer but it only measures angles in degrees. It is also used to assist in installing satellite dishes.

To obtain a % gradient you would need to know the base distance on the horizontal, elevation at starting point and elevation at finishing point.

The problem with calculating the base or horizontal is that roads up high hills/mountains meander so a direct horizontal from A to B would result in a steeper gradient than actual.

I would consider surveyors would use GPS equipment to measure horizontal distance and height over each straight section of the climb and aggregate the distances to calculate an average gradient.

J-Mat - I was only pulling your chain!

No the instrument is called a Clinometer, they are made by Suunto and they have a degree and percentage scale. Ask any forester because they use them to measure the height of trees as well as the grade of slopes.

 

[VeloFlash]

Originally posted by Spider1977
No the instrument is called a Clinometer, they are made by Suunto and they have a degree and percentage scale. Ask any forester because they use them to measure the height of trees as well as the grade of slopes.

Actually, we are both right. My source is from surveyors who call them inclinometers as is also the instrument on dash boards in four wheel drives. The dictionary defines both.

http://www.geodetic.com.au/category497_1.htm

 

[neilcooper]

Aztec, I think you should stay behind after school and write 100 times Measuring a gradient as a percentage results in a different figure than an angle of slope expressed as degrees

45 degrees expressed as a gradient percentage is about 26.5% (from memory). That is the error, comparing degrees to percentage gradient, in the article you are basing your patriotic "fake foreign" outcry......

Actually, I think you might be the one needing the schooling.

45º is NOT 26.5% gradient. 45º is actually 100% gradient.

Maybe you meant the other way around?

Think of it this way, the percent grade is the rise as a percentage of the level distance.

Lets say you are about to travel up a hill from sea level. The summit of the hill is 50m above sea level. Lets also assume you are traveling in an easterly direction (you'll see why in a moment).

Assume you have GPS that is perfectly accurate (not invented yet) and at the summit it tells you that you've moved 50m east. You've moved the same amount vertically as you did horizontally. The horizontal distance was 100% of the vertical distance. 100% grade. If you draw 2 lines on a piece of paper that are the same length, one horizontal & one vertical and then draw a third line to join them up (forming a triangle) the angle from the horizontal to the line you drew last is 45º. Therefore a 100% grade is 45º.

The sharpest hill you can have expressed in terms of degrees (angle) is 90º. Not really a hill actually, more like a vertical cliff face.

However if grade is expressed in terms of percentage it can be a lot more than 100%.

 

[Spider1977]

The instrument is known as an inclinometer but it only measures angles in degrees. It is also used to assist in installing satellite dishes.

To obtain a % gradient you would need to know the base distance on the horizontal, elevation at starting point and elevation at finishing point.

Veloflash as I'm a professional forester who uses one of these instruments nearly every day I do know what I'm talking about!

The CLINOMETER does not need knowledge of any distances to measure slope - you simply look through the instrument up the slope. Also it has a degrees and percentage slope scale on it. The most common ones are made by Suunto, you can go to their web site and have a look.

If you want to measure the height of something (in my case a tree), then of course you need to know the distance from the base of the tree. Then, through trigonometry you can calculate the height.

I suggest you stick to riding your bike!

 

[VeloFlash]

Veloflash as I'm a professional forester who uses one of these instruments nearly every day I do know what I'm talking about!

The CLINOMETER does not need knowledge of any distances to measure slope - you simply look through the instrument up the slope. Also it has a degrees and percentage slope scale on it. The most common ones are made by Suunto, you can go to their web site and have a look.

If you want to measure the height of something (in my case a tree), then of course you need to know the distance from the base of the tree. Then, through trigonometry you can calculate the height.

I suggest you stick to riding your bike!

I have been riding my bike in the nearly four years it took you to reply the second time!

 

[neilcooper]

I have been riding my bike in the nearly four years it took you to reply the second time!

Long enough to now understand the difference between degrees & percentage gradient?

 

[Sillyoldtwit]

I do enjoy a good fight, especially when I'm at the ringside like this. Tyson

 

[neilcooper]

I do enjoy a good fight, especially when I'm at the ringside like this. Tyson

Not much of a fight goin' really. More like 'The Sounds of Silence".

Silence frequently occurs when someone's ego is just a tad bigger than their capacity to realise or acknowledge they don't know everything, or have made a mistake or ....

 

[neilcooper]

Come back Velo, it was all in good fun.

 

[frenchyge]

Silence frequently occurs when someone's ego is just a tad bigger than their capacity to realise or acknowledge they don't know everything, or have made a mistake or ....

....or when it's been 4.5 years since the conversation has had any relevance and one party has decided to just let it go....

(echoes) ...let it go...

(echoes) ...let it go...

(echoes) ...let it go.

 

[neilcooper]

....or when it's been 4.5 years since the conversation has had any relevance and one party has decided to just let it go....

(echoes) ...let it go...

(echoes) ...let it go...

(echoes) ...let it go.

Firstly, I had clicked on his profile and noticed that he hadn't posted at this forum since 24th of May which was only a day or two after my last comment to him. I just hated to think I may have been the reason he was staying away (or at least stopped posting). It was my peace offering.

Secondly, in a thread on the subject of hills, the discussion of gradients will be relevant even ten years from now. If you think the thread should die, why bump it?

 

[mikesbytes]

I've driven a car up Baldwin st and you feel like you are going to flip over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldwin_Street,_Dunedin