Hincapie's broken fork in Paris-Roubaix

[G.T.]

spin156 wrote:
>
>
> I just wanted to give my regards to Greg and others who resorted to
> name calling and swearing. Those are most impressive traits for
> people who think they should be stated seriously. Hey, I made it
> quite clear that what I had to say was speculation, but that did not
> stop the excoriation. I guess just having an opposing opinion
> about something is not an option for many who frequent this forum.
> That's pretty sad.

No, it's sad that someone would continue in the face of much guidance
otherwise to spout such misinformation in a public forum.

>
> The fact that several of you support the notion that common courtesy is
> an option is also a pretty sad commentary about today's world.

And clearly you don't have the common courtesy to listen to other who
know better than you.

Tell us how the top cap or expander holds the stem onto the steerer?

Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

 

[Derk]

Sheldon Brown wrote:

> Could have been:
>
> "Broken fork in Paris-Roubaix" or "Mechanical failure in Paris-Roubaix"
> but mentioning Hincapie's name in the "Subject:" heading was totally
> unnecessary and thoughtless.
Nowhere did I write: "Hincapie out of Paris-Roubaix". He could have been
handed another bike and could have continued the race on that spare bike.
You concluded yourself he was out of the race.

If you know chances are someone will speak about an event on a newsgroup, I
would stay away from it till I had seen the TV broadcast. That's the reason
I never read Teletekst on TV when I haven't seen a rerun of a race.

Maybe we could all send a message to the TdF organisation asking not to air
anything live anymore , but to broadcast with delay in the evening, so that
people in other continents can do things first that they consider more
important without risking to hear the result of the race?

Gr, Derk

 

[Jan Bijma]

[email protected] wrote:
> Sheldon Brown wrote:
< cut >
> Yes, you must mean Boonen's group. They took a risk to duck around
> those crossing barriers after the first train had passed. What if
> there'd been a second train?!? I can't understand why they weren't
> disqualified for the same infraction as the others.
>

There could not have been a second train. It was a single track railway.
It is unsafe to pass BEFORE the train passed, but safe after that.

J.

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On 10 Apr 2006 21:09:57 -0700, "spin156" <[email protected]> wrote:


>I am certainly guilty of a little gloating here, but my point is
>(again) that maybe a little tolerance of differing opinions is not such
>a bad idea until all the facts are in. No one, including me, is
>right all the time.

Well, going by rbtech conventional wisdom, several things are
*certain.* Here they are:

He wasn't on a steel bike. Big mistake -- does weight of the frame
really matter? He should've looked at losing a little weight himself.
Poser. I mean poseur. And there weren't even big hills in the event.

And the fork. It had carbon in it. Big mistake. Nuff said.

Plus he had a 12 cog (or maybe even an 11 -- gasp). It's well known
that almost no one can use gears like that, and it's faster to just
tuck anyway. Or learn to spin.

Plus, especially in a race like that, why the brifters? The riders
are going to crash and brifters are so fragile.

Those guys are such dumbasses -- caught up in all the marketing hype.

JT

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On 10 Apr 2006 20:06:55 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Sally wrote:
>> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>> > The official press release, from Zapata Espinosa at Trek, 4/10/06
>>
>> That's a pretty quick CYA.
>
>That's what all those lawyers on retainer are for.

You're so nuts. Did some bike shop employee working for Trek steal
your wife or something? Where does this bitterness come from?

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > And didn't ya just love Bruyneel's kiss-the-sponsor's-ass statement?
>
> You might try to make a case for that with Bruyneel... maybe... but this
> one?
>
> "The cobbles do not discriminate", said Julien De Vriese, a forty year
> veteran mechanic and the teams Head Mechanic.
>
> Anyone who knows Julien would know better than to suggest that of something
> he said.
>
>

Sorry, Mike, but I don't see the connection here.

I didn't mean to imply any kind of knock on Trek *products*; P-R is a
tough test and stuff breaks. If they were playing with fork columns to
save ~50-100 grams, now they know better.

OTOH, I found Bruyneel's eagerness/willingness to pucker up and kiss
Corporate ass a little distasteful. YMMV.

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 10 Apr 2006 20:06:55 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >Sally wrote:
> >> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> news:[email protected]:
> >>
> >> > The official press release, from Zapata Espinosa at Trek, 4/10/06
> >>
> >> That's a pretty quick CYA.
> >
> >That's what all those lawyers on retainer are for.
>
> You're so nuts. Did some bike shop employee working for Trek steal
> your wife or something? Where does this bitterness come from?
>
>

So, you don't think that statement from Trek was cleared through
lawyers, JackAss?

 

[spin156]

G.T. wrote:

>
> Tell us again how a properly tightened top cap would have prevented his
> crash?
>
> Greg


For the record, I never said that a properly tigthened top cap would
have prevented his crash. What I said was that it might have not
been tightenned properly and may have contributed to the crash.

Try quoting properly without the editorializing. You'd have made a
great historian back in the days of the old U.S.S.R.

Cheers,
Bill

 

[[email protected]]

Tim McNamara wrote:

> I've been following bike racing for years and I remember no broken steel
> forks in P-R. (Doesn't mean it didn't happen, of course, and it'd be
> interesting to hear of any). Broken handlebars and broken stems aplenty.

During the OLN coverage, P. Sherwen said something about Sean Kelly
breaking his fork at a certain place, I believe a pave corner. --D-y

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

spin156 wrote:
> G.T. wrote:
>
> >
> > Tell us again how a properly tightened top cap would have prevented his
> > crash?
> >
> > Greg
>
>
> For the record, I never said that a properly tigthened top cap would
> have prevented his crash. What I said was that it might have not
> been tightenned properly and may have contributed to the crash.
>
> Try quoting properly without the editorializing. You'd have made a
> great historian back in the days of the old U.S.S.R.
>
>


Didn't Dubya and Co hire all those unemployed Soviet "historians"?

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On 11 Apr 2006 04:15:32 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>> On 10 Apr 2006 20:06:55 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Sally wrote:
>> >> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> >> news:[email protected]:
>> >>
>> >> > The official press release, from Zapata Espinosa at Trek, 4/10/06
>> >>
>> >> That's a pretty quick CYA.
>> >
>> >That's what all those lawyers on retainer are for.
>>
>> You're so nuts. Did some bike shop employee working for Trek steal
>> your wife or something? Where does this bitterness come from?
>>
>>
>
>So, you don't think that statement from Trek was cleared through
>lawyers, JackAss?

Sure it might be, but that's so tangential to the discussion here,
especially considering Hincapie isn't about to sue Trek. Your
comments demonstrate such anti-lawyner, anti-marketing contempt it's
nutty. There are times those sentiments might be appropriate, but you
seem to relish displaying them. So I ask again -- why the bitterness?

JT


****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

 

[D'ohBoy]

JFT asked OB:

> Your comments demonstrate such anti-lawyner, anti-marketing contempt it's
> nutty. There are times those sentiments might be appropriate, but you
> seem to relish displaying them. So I ask again -- why the bitterness?

Probably the carbon. OB has a thing - he keeps spouting about
"soul-less" bikes which he, apparently, has extrapolated to the mfr's
of same.

Plus, lawyers and marketeers ARE frequently agents of Satan.

D'ohBoy

 

[[email protected]]

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> I didn't mean to imply any kind of knock on Trek *products*; P-R is a
> tough test and stuff breaks. If they were playing with fork columns to
> save ~50-100 grams, now they know better.

Crashed aluminum?

> OTOH, I found Bruyneel's eagerness/willingness to pucker up and kiss
> Corporate ass a little distasteful. YMMV.

I'm not "connected" with Trek. My neighbor is. People work there. I
think of Bruyneel's words as a reminder of lots of prior service, not
so much of a "pucker". By all means, call 'em as you see 'em. --D-y

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

spin156 wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > john wrote:
> > > I believe that I saw the right end of his drops penetrate the rt. side
> > > of his front wheel, locking up the front wheel. Either that or some how
> > > the front brake was activated. The front wheel was hopping as if it
> > > were restrained, to further add to the calamity. Has anyone heard how
> > > he is doing? I'm not wildly pro helmet, but I don't see how anyone
> > > could argue that he would have been better off, had he not been wearing
> > > one.
> > >
> > > John
> >
> > 29 posts and finally one asking if he broke his collarbone. I wonder
> > that too. Something breaks at P-R and keeps somebody from finsihing,
> > that has been happening for over a century....not news.
>
>
> >From today's CyclingNews.com:
>
> " Hincapie diagnosed with fracture
>
> George Hincapie, the man who probably suffered the worst fate of all in
> this 104th Paris-Roubaix - his steerer tube breaking when he had all
> the chances for a victory in the race - has been diagnosed with a
> fracture between his collarbone and shoulder blade. The Discovery rider
> will return to the United States on Monday to get an operation.
>
> "We don't know yet how long Hincapie will be out of competition," team
> director Dirk Demol told Belgian media. "It is a severe injury, that's
> for sure." X-rays in hospital reveled a fracture of about three
> centimetres. "
>
> >
> > If they ever published what actually broke on all the teams I think it
> > would be amazing. I'm amazed bikes make it at all.
>
> Yes, I agree. How about there was an expansion plug that was not
> adequately tight?
> If the stem bolts are tight, who's going to notice? Unless they
> actually check the allen bolt in the plug. Then, if the stem got
> damaged in the first crash and loosened what would happen? Hey, the
> whole bar/stem assy comes off in your hands. I am going to be very
> surprised if they don't tie the ultimate failure to the first crash.

Expansion plug is for HS adjust only. After adjusting, the expansion
plug and SFNut could be removed with no ill effect. The fork steerer
failed, nothing new at P-R...Point at anything on a bike and I am sure
at some point in some P-R, it has broken.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Brian Phillips wrote:
> According to this:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/apr06/roubaix06/?id=/tech/2006/features/hincapie_trek
> it's an aluminum steerer. Add an extra syllable if you're British.
> Boonen's bike on the other hand, has a steel steerer:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/apr06/roubaix06/index.php?id=boonen_time/IMG_9914
>
>
>
> "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Derk <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > My guess is that this event will be often cited in discussions about
> > > carbon forks.
> >
> > Well, at least not until we know more. The scanty information isn't
> > enough, basically per cyclingnews.com Belgian TV reported that the
> > aluminum steerer broke.

And some Willier frames were steel..so what, steel has broken before
also. Everything breaks at P-R
> >
> > There are other reports of catastrophic failure of carbon forks to talk
> > about already. ;-)

 

[Vee]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> spin156 wrote:
> > Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > > john wrote:
> > > > I believe that I saw the right end of his drops penetrate the rt. side
> > > > of his front wheel, locking up the front wheel. Either that or some how
> > > > the front brake was activated. The front wheel was hopping as if it
> > > > were restrained, to further add to the calamity. Has anyone heard how
> > > > he is doing? I'm not wildly pro helmet, but I don't see how anyone
> > > > could argue that he would have been better off, had he not been wearing
> > > > one.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > >
> > > 29 posts and finally one asking if he broke his collarbone. I wonder
> > > that too. Something breaks at P-R and keeps somebody from finsihing,
> > > that has been happening for over a century....not news.
> >
> >
> > >From today's CyclingNews.com:
> >
> > " Hincapie diagnosed with fracture
> >
> > George Hincapie, the man who probably suffered the worst fate of all in
> > this 104th Paris-Roubaix - his steerer tube breaking when he had all
> > the chances for a victory in the race - has been diagnosed with a
> > fracture between his collarbone and shoulder blade. The Discovery rider
> > will return to the United States on Monday to get an operation.
> >
> > "We don't know yet how long Hincapie will be out of competition," team
> > director Dirk Demol told Belgian media. "It is a severe injury, that's
> > for sure." X-rays in hospital reveled a fracture of about three
> > centimetres. "
> >
> > >
> > > If they ever published what actually broke on all the teams I think it
> > > would be amazing. I'm amazed bikes make it at all.
> >
> > Yes, I agree. How about there was an expansion plug that was not
> > adequately tight?
> > If the stem bolts are tight, who's going to notice? Unless they
> > actually check the allen bolt in the plug. Then, if the stem got
> > damaged in the first crash and loosened what would happen? Hey, the
> > whole bar/stem assy comes off in your hands. I am going to be very
> > surprised if they don't tie the ultimate failure to the first crash.
>
> Expansion plug is for HS adjust only. After adjusting, the expansion
> plug and SFNut could be removed with no ill effect. The fork steerer
> failed, nothing new at P-R...Point at anything on a bike and I am sure
> at some point in some P-R, it has broken.

Yeah, it seems like there are always plenty of mechanicals to go around
on this race. My question is, why don't they ride bikes that are
suitable for the cobbles? Would the 5-6 pound weight penalty of a
sturdy cross bike slow them down? Surely 700x38 or 700x42 tires would
be much easier on the bikes and riders than
kasillyum-race-lite-4000-tubie tires.

-Vee

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 11 Apr 2006 04:15:32 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> >> On 10 Apr 2006 20:06:55 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Sally wrote:
> >> >> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> >> news:[email protected]:
> >> >>
> >> >> > The official press release, from Zapata Espinosa at Trek, 4/10/06
> >> >>
> >> >> That's a pretty quick CYA.
> >> >
> >> >That's what all those lawyers on retainer are for.
> >>
> >> You're so nuts. Did some bike shop employee working for Trek steal
> >> your wife or something? Where does this bitterness come from?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >So, you don't think that statement from Trek was cleared through
> >lawyers, JackAss?
>
> Sure it might be, but that's so tangential to the discussion here,
> especially considering Hincapie isn't about to sue Trek. Your
> comments demonstrate such anti-lawyner, anti-marketing contempt it's
> nutty. There are times those sentiments might be appropriate, but you
> seem to relish displaying them. So I ask again -- why the bitterness?
>
>
I wasn't the one who wrote "That's a pretty quick CYA". Learn to read.
Take your time, JackAss.

 

[[email protected]]

This is just bizarre, blanket, anti-lawyer statement. What kind of
suit would exist here? What kind of information would lawyers parse in
this kind of situation? I'm not a lawyer in the US, so I understand
you folks are a little more sensitive (mostly from tv lawyering than
reality, IMHO), but calling out us lawyers in this kind of situation is
just absurd. Now if we are going to bash marketers, I'll get in
line...

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

D'ohBoy wrote:
> JFT asked OB:
>
> > Your comments demonstrate such anti-lawyner, anti-marketing contempt it's
> > nutty. There are times those sentiments might be appropriate, but you
> > seem to relish displaying them. So I ask again -- why the bitterness?
>
> Probably the carbon.

This pretty clearly *was not* a CF fork failure. The only question I
have is: did Trek change the fork column on the Bontrager Satellite
fork in an attempt to save weight? If the answer is "yes", then the
decision looks a bit foolish now. If the answer is "no" and that is the
stock fork column, I would have big time reservations about commuting
on that fork (that's apparently how it is positioned: as a "commuter"
fork). And, maybe a voluntary product recall is in order.



> OB has a thing - he keeps spouting about
> "soul-less" bikes which he, apparently, has extrapolated to the mfr's
> of same.
>

Hey, Trek makes what Trek makes. Most of their stuff leaves me cold,
but lotsa folks love 'em. BFD.


> Plus, lawyers and marketeers ARE frequently agents of Satan.
>
>

Ya think!?!

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

[email protected] wrote:
> This is just bizarre, blanket, anti-lawyer statement. What kind of
> suit would exist here? What kind of information would lawyers parse in
> this kind of situation? I'm not a lawyer in the US, so I understand
> you folks are a little more sensitive (mostly from tv lawyering than
> reality, IMHO), but calling out us lawyers in this kind of situation is
> just absurd. Now if we are going to bash marketers, I'll get in
> line...


It's not clear to whom or what you are specifically replying.

If it was to my comment about "lawyers on retainer", I merely meant
that Trek almost surely passed the statement regarding the Hincapie
incident by their lawyers to be sure they were minimizing their legal
exposure. IOW, the lawyers were just doing their job.

FWIW, in the lawsuit happy USA, it's not inconceivable that a Trek
customer with a broken fork would use the already notorious Hincapie
incident to bolster their claim in a defective product suit.