Hincapies career as a leader over?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by The Black Adder, Oct 12, 2003.

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  1. Unless he manages to pull off some surprises in the classics next year, it looks to me like he's
    going to be relegated to the role of super-domestique for the rest of his time in the peloton.

    - BA
     
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  2. "The Black Adder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Unless he manages to pull off some surprises in the classics next year, it looks to me like he's
    > going to be relegated to the role of super-domestique for the rest of his time in the peloton.

    Dumbass -

    Can't say that until he's well into his 30's. Usually winners of RVV or P-R don't do so until after
    30 years of age - experience/tactics is so very important in those races.
     
  3. Graham

    Graham Guest

    "The Black Adder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Unless he manages to pull off some surprises in the classics next year, it looks to me like he's
    > going to be relegated to the role of
    super-domestique
    > for the rest of his time in the peloton.
    >
    > - BA
    >
    >
    What career was that ?

    Graham
     
  4. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "The Black Adder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Unless he manages to pull off some surprises in the classics next year, it looks to me like he's
    > going to be relegated to the role of
    super-domestique
    > for the rest of his time in the peloton.
    >
    > - BA

    It will be over when another ON HIS TEAM surpasses him.
     
  5. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "The Black Adder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Unless he manages to pull off some surprises in the classics next year,
    it
    > > looks to me like he's going to be relegated to the role of
    super-domestique
    > > for the rest of his time in the peloton.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Dumbass -
    >
    > Can't say that until he's well into his 30's. Usually winners of RVV or
    P-R
    > don't do so until after 30 years of age - experience/tactics is so very important in those races.

    You can expect me to repost this next spring when young Tom Boonen places ahead of Hincapie in both.

    ;-)

    - BA
     
  6. "The Black Adder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "The Black Adder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Unless he manages to pull off some surprises in the classics next year,
    > it
    > > > looks to me like he's going to be relegated to the role of
    > super-domestique
    > > > for the rest of his time in the peloton.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Dumbass -
    > >
    > > Can't say that until he's well into his 30's. Usually winners of RVV or
    > P-R
    > > don't do so until after 30 years of age - experience/tactics is so very important in those
    > > races.
    >
    > You can expect me to repost this next spring when young Tom Boonen places ahead of Hincapie
    > in both.

    Dumbass -

    Boonen may very well do that, but it's still a fact that most first-time winners of those 2 races
    are in their 30's. We've discussed this a few times before already.
     
  7. "Graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "The Black Adder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Unless he manages to pull off some surprises in the classics next year,
    it
    > > looks to me like he's going to be relegated to the role of
    > super-domestique
    > > for the rest of his time in the peloton.
    > >
    > > - BA
    > >
    > >
    > What career was that ?

    Well.. he got at least nominal support as USPS leader in the spring and managed to place decently in
    a few classics. I see your point though; he'll probably do another 5 -7 years in the 4th -> 15th
    classics spots whatever team he's on.

    - BA

    > Graham
     
  8. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Boonen may very well do that, but it's still a fact that most first-time winners of those 2 races
    > are in their 30's. We've discussed this a few
    times
    > before already.

    In their 30s. Hmmmmm. Well, lets take a look at ages of a few riders at the time of their first
    Flanders win. Since 1949:

    Magni 29 Decock 25 Impanis 29
    L. Bobet 30
    M. Forestier 26
    N. De Bruyne 27 van Looy 26 Altig 27 Godefroote 25 Merckx 24
    O. Martens 27
    P. Vanderaerdan 23 Museeuw 28

    Maybe Hapless is going to be a very late bloomer, but more likely not. And Henry, once again you're
    wrong on the facts. Do you even think and check before you post?
     
  9. "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Boonen may very well do that, but it's still a fact that most first-time winners of those 2
    > > races are in their 30's. We've discussed this a few
    > times
    > > before already.
    >
    > In their 30s. Hmmmmm. Well, lets take a look at ages of a few riders at the time of their first
    > Flanders win. Since 1949:

    <snip>

    Dumbass -

    In the last 10 years, the winners of Paris-Roubaix have been:

    2002 Johan Museeuw (Bel) 2001 Servais Knaven (Ned) 2000 Johan Museeuw (Bel) 1999 Andrea Tafi (Ita)
    1998 Franco Ballerini (Ita) 1997 Frederic Guesdon (Fra) 1996 Johan Museeuw (Bel) 1995 Franco
    Ballerini (Ita) 1994 Andrei Tchmil (Mol) 1993 Gilbert Duclos-Lassalle (Fra) 1992 Gilbert
    Duclos-Lassalle (Fra)

    The only one who was younger than 30 was Guesdon.
     
  10. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Boonen may very well do that, but it's still a fact that most
    first-time
    > > > winners of those 2 races are in their 30's. We've discussed this a few
    > > times
    > > > before already.
    > >
    > > In their 30s. Hmmmmm. Well, lets take a look at ages of a few riders
    at
    > > the time of their first Flanders win. Since 1949:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Dumbass -
    >
    >
    > In the last 10 years, the winners of Paris-Roubaix have been:
    >
    >
    > 2002 Johan Museeuw (Bel) 2001 Servais Knaven (Ned) 2000 Johan Museeuw (Bel) 1999 Andrea Tafi (Ita)
    > 1998 Franco Ballerini (Ita) 1997 Frederic Guesdon (Fra) 1996 Johan Museeuw (Bel) 1995 Franco
    > Ballerini (Ita) 1994 Andrei Tchmil (Mol) 1993 Gilbert Duclos-Lassalle (Fra) 1992 Gilbert
    > Duclos-Lassalle (Fra)

    Weren't most of those guys winning one day riders before their victories at PR? That is hardly the
    case with Hincapie. George seems to have demonstrated that his problem is lack of strength rather
    than lack of tactics, the embarrassingly bad PR he rode 2 years ago being the best example. Great
    position, very strong team mate... no legs.

    - BA

    >
    > The only one who was younger than 30 was Guesdon.
     
  11. "The Black Adder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >
    > > In the last 10 years, the winners of Paris-Roubaix have been:
    > >
    > >
    > > 2002 Johan Museeuw (Bel) 2001 Servais Knaven (Ned) 2000 Johan Museeuw (Bel) 1999 Andrea Tafi
    > > (Ita) 1998 Franco Ballerini (Ita) 1997 Frederic Guesdon (Fra) 1996 Johan Museeuw (Bel) 1995
    > > Franco Ballerini (Ita) 1994 Andrei Tchmil (Mol) 1993 Gilbert Duclos-Lassalle (Fra) 1992 Gilbert
    > > Duclos-Lassalle (Fra)
    >
    > Weren't most of those guys winning one day riders before their victories at PR?

    Dumbass -

    Museeuw, Tafi, Tchmil - yes.

    Knaven, Guesdon, Ballerini, Duclos-Lasalle - were never really contenders in Classics outside of
    P-R, although Ballerini was decent at Flanders.

    Guesdon hardly has done anything else. Duclos-Lasalle won his first P-R at the age of 38. Then he
    won another at 39 (at the expense of Ballerini).
     
  12. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Boonen may very well do that, but it's still a fact that most
    first-time
    > > > winners of those 2 races are in their 30's. We've discussed this a few
    > > times
    > > > before already.
    > >
    > > In their 30s. Hmmmmm. Well, lets take a look at ages of a few riders
    at
    > > the time of their first Flanders win. Since 1949:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Dumbass -
    >
    >
    > In the last 10 years, the winners of Paris-Roubaix have been:
    >
    >
    > 2002 Johan Museeuw (Bel) 2001 Servais Knaven (Ned) 2000 Johan Museeuw (Bel) 1999 Andrea Tafi (Ita)
    > 1998 Franco Ballerini (Ita) 1997 Frederic Guesdon (Fra) 1996 Johan Museeuw (Bel) 1995 Franco
    > Ballerini (Ita) 1994 Andrei Tchmil (Mol) 1993 Gilbert Duclos-Lassalle (Fra) 1992 Gilbert
    > Duclos-Lassalle (Fra)
    >
    >
    > The only one who was younger than 30 was Guesdon.

    Looking at the period from 1960 onward, the average age of first time winners is older than for
    Flanders. However, I think you'll see that most older first time P-R winners had already shown
    themselves as winners of significant other classics, unlike Hapless. Post 32 van Loy 28 Gimondi24
    Jansen 27 Merckx 23 de Vlaninik 25 de Meyer 26 Moser 27 Raas 30 Hinault 27 Kuiper 34 Madiot 26
    Duclos 38 Museeuw 31 Ballerini 34 Tafi 33 Guesdon 26
    E. Planckert 32 Knaven 30

    And the average age of the above P-R winners on the first win is 29 years old. Hapless is now 30,
    IIRC. 2004 should be his year.

    Nice try but your still a Moron.
     
  13. "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > Dumbass -
    > >
    > >
    > > In the last 10 years, the winners of Paris-Roubaix have been:
    > >
    > >
    > > 2002 Johan Museeuw (Bel) 2001 Servais Knaven (Ned) 2000 Johan Museeuw (Bel) 1999 Andrea Tafi
    > > (Ita) 1998 Franco Ballerini (Ita) 1997 Frederic Guesdon (Fra) 1996 Johan Museeuw (Bel) 1995
    > > Franco Ballerini (Ita) 1994 Andrei Tchmil (Mol) 1993 Gilbert Duclos-Lassalle (Fra) 1992 Gilbert
    > > Duclos-Lassalle (Fra)
    > >
    > >
    > > The only one who was younger than 30 was Guesdon.
    >
    > Looking at the period from 1960 onward, the average age of first time winners is older than for
    > Flanders.

    <snip>

    Dumbass -

    The past 10 years is what's important. The sport has changed.
     
  14. Paulo

    Paulo Guest

    Don't forget George had a rough Spring with his illness.

    He is a good rider.Better than most with a few great wins.

    Don't mess with George. I bet none of you could hang with him on an easy ride!
     
  15. Sonarrat

    Sonarrat Guest

    "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "The Black Adder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Unless he manages to pull off some surprises in the classics next year, it looks to me like he's
    > > going to be relegated to the role of
    > super-domestique
    > > for the rest of his time in the peloton.
    > >
    > > - BA
    >
    > It will be over when another ON HIS TEAM surpasses him.

    I will be very surprised if USPS fails to sweep up Chris Horner - unless he's already signed
    something.

    -Sonarrat.
     
  16. "Sonarrat" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "The Black Adder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Unless he manages to pull off some surprises in the classics next year,
    it
    > > > looks to me like he's going to be relegated to the role of
    > > super-domestique
    > > > for the rest of his time in the peloton.
    > > >
    > > > - BA
    > >
    > > It will be over when another ON HIS TEAM surpasses him.
    >
    > I will be very surprised if USPS fails to sweep up Chris Horner - unless
    he's
    > already signed something.

    Grapevine says he already signed something.
     
  17. "PaulO" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > Don't mess with George. I bet none of you could hang with him on an easy ride!

    I'll bet you're wrong. Besides, how relevant is that?
     
  18. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    >
    > "Sonarrat" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >> "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >> >
    >> > "The Black Adder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> > news:[email protected]...
    >> > > Unless he manages to pull off some surprises in the classics next year,
    > it
    >> > > looks to me like he's going to be relegated to the role of
    >> > super-domestique
    >> > > for the rest of his time in the peloton.
    >> > >
    >> > > - BA
    >> >
    >> > It will be over when another ON HIS TEAM surpasses him.
    >>
    >> I will be very surprised if USPS fails to sweep up Chris Horner - unless
    > he's
    >> already signed something.
    >
    >
    >
    > Grapevine says he already signed something.
    >
    >

    with who? I dont think he would go to europe as a domestique what US team could sign and use him?
     
  19. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "Chris version 2" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > with who? I dont think he would go to europe as a domestique what US team could sign and use him?

    No kidding. He already tried that in France for a few years and did terrible.
     
  20. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > Looking at the period from 1960 onward, the average age of first
    time
    > winners is older than for Flanders.

    So, Brian, when did they change P-R from a flat road race to the mud and pave' festival it is today?
     
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