history of individual pursuit?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by [email protected], Jan 18, 2006.

  1. Can anybody point me to some good resources (books, articles, websites)
    covering the history of the individual pursuit? I'm writing a
    scientific article on the demands and determinants of performance in
    the event, and would like to throw a bit of its history into my
    introduction. Thanks!

    P.S. Yes, I've already thought to search the UCI website...just hoping
    that there might be some more detailed info out there somewhere.
     
    Tags:


  2. [email protected] wrote:
    > Can anybody point me to some good resources (books, articles, websites)
    > covering the history of the individual pursuit?


    World podiums since the first one in 1966:
    http://www.velo-club.net/article.php?sid=18767 or
    http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Championnat_du_monde_de_Cyclisme_sur_Piste

    Sercu was the fastest ever indoor in 1964 with 1:06.76
    http://www.velo-club.net/article.php?sid=4477

    Do you think Bos is an anomaly with his (relatively) slender legs? Perhaps
    more so for the sprint.

    --
    E. Dronkert
     
  3. Thank you!!

    So I have the pursuit debuting at Worlds in 1946 (I take it your 1966
    date was a typo) and at the Olympics in 1964...anybody have any info
    re. earlier competitions? For example, does anyone know if the
    individual pursuit was regularly contested in the hayday of track
    cycling back in the late 19th/early 20th century?
     
  4. [email protected] wrote:
    > So I have the pursuit debuting at Worlds in 1946 (I take it your 1966
    > date was a typo)


    Sorry, completely wrongly, I was looking at the kilometre (hence Bos).

    --
    E. Dronkert
     
  5. Les Earnest

    Les Earnest Guest

    Having read quite a bit about late 19th and early 20th century racing, I
    recall no mentions of pursuit events.

    -Les Earnest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > So I have the pursuit debuting at Worlds in 1946 (I take it your 1966
    > date was a typo) and at the Olympics in 1964...anybody have any info
    > re. earlier competitions? For example, does anyone know if the
    > individual pursuit was regularly contested in the hayday of track
    > cycling back in the late 19th/early 20th century?
    >
     
  6. benjo maso

    benjo maso Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:1137[email protected]
    > Thank you!!
    >
    > So I have the pursuit debuting at Worlds in 1946 (I take it your 1966
    > date was a typo) and at the Olympics in 1964...anybody have any info
    > re. earlier competitions? For example, does anyone know if the
    > individual pursuit was regularly contested in the hayday of track
    > cycling back in the late 19th/early 20th century?



    I don't know much about track racing, but I'm almost certain it was already
    contested in 1900. First of all: at the Olympic Games of 1900 there was
    already a pursuitrace for teams (won by the USA), so I can hardly imagine
    that individual pursuit didn't exist. Anyhow, the Swiss Oscar Egg was a
    famous pursuit rider, in his long career (1912-26) beaten only once (by the
    Australian Reggie McNamara). In the 1930's it was very popular and in 1939
    it should have had its first worldchampion (almost certainly the Dutch
    Six-Day specialist Jan Pijnenburg), but it was cancelled because of the
    outbreak of the Second WW.

    Benjo
     
  7. Andy Coggan

    Andy Coggan Guest

    A follow-up question: can somebody (Shaun?) tell me what years the pros
    raced 5000 m instead of 4000 m?

    Andy Coggan
     
  8. "Andy Coggan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >A follow-up question: can somebody (Shaun?) tell me what years the pros
    >raced 5000 m instead of 4000 m?
    >
    > Andy Coggan


    I'm thinking that pros did not compete at 4k until the event became open in
    1994. Very rarely did you see top pros compete in the pursuit at the top of
    their game partially because the event was held about 2 weeks prior to the
    world's road race, making it difficult to peak for both events.
    Consequently, the event was often filled with 6 day riders not dedicated to
    the pro road season and second echelon road pros who would enter at the last
    minute, depending on who else was on the start list and how they weighed
    their chances of success. Unlike amateur riders, there were very, very few
    dedicated pro pursuit riders and the team/financial support they received
    was not especially great.

    IMO, the reason the pros rode 5k while the amateurs rode 4k is that you had
    many nations who cultivated and supported specialized amateur pursuit
    riders. Especially in eastern Europe where riding worlds and olympics was
    the pinnacle of your career, not a step toward a pro road contract. The
    amateur riders would beat the times of the pro riders at the 4k distance
    often enough to make the pros look silly. Add 25% more distance for the pros
    so you can't compare apples to oranges.
     
  9. benjo maso

    benjo maso Guest

    "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Andy Coggan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >>A follow-up question: can somebody (Shaun?) tell me what years the pros
    >>raced 5000 m instead of 4000 m?
    >>
    >> Andy Coggan

    >
    > I'm thinking that pros did not compete at 4k until the event became open
    > in 1994. Very rarely did you see top pros compete in the pursuit at the
    > top of their game partially because the event was held about 2 weeks prior
    > to the world's road race, making it difficult to peak for both events.
    > Consequently, the event was often filled with 6 day riders not dedicated
    > to the pro road season and second echelon road pros who would enter at the
    > last minute, depending on who else was on the start list and how they
    > weighed their chances of success. Unlike amateur riders, there were very,
    > very few dedicated pro pursuit riders and the team/financial support they
    > received was not especially great.
    >
    > IMO, the reason the pros rode 5k while the amateurs rode 4k is that you
    > had many nations who cultivated and supported specialized amateur pursuit
    > riders. Especially in eastern Europe where riding worlds and olympics was
    > the pinnacle of your career, not a step toward a pro road contract. The
    > amateur riders would beat the times of the pro riders at the 4k distance
    > often enough to make the pros look silly. Add 25% more distance for the
    > pros so you can't compare apples to oranges.


    No, it was a little different. In the time of the first worldchampionships
    pursuit (1939, 1946) amateurs were generally cyclists not yet old enough to
    become pro. So it was very simple: 5 km for the pro's and only 4 fot the
    amateurs (and 3 km for the women). In the heighdays the world title was
    usually contested between some 6 day specialists (Peters, Schulte, Faggin,
    Messina, etc.). and the best TT-riders among the road pros (Coppi, Koblet,
    Anquetil, Rivière, Wim van Est, Baldini, Altig, etc., etc.). They usually
    partcipated also to the world's road race, although that event wasn't two
    weeks but only a few days, but because "peaking" wasn't yet invented, nobody
    cared. In 1949 Coppi became worldchampion pusuit and a few days later third
    in the world's road race. In 1976 Francecso Moser did even better:
    worldchampion pursuit and second in the road race.

    Benjo
     
  10. "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>
    >> I'm thinking that pros did not compete at 4k until the event became open
    >> in 1994. Very rarely did you see top pros compete in the pursuit at the
    >> top of their game partially because the event was held about 2 weeks
    >> prior to the world's road race, making it difficult to peak for both
    >> events. Consequently, the event was often filled with 6 day riders not
    >> dedicated to the pro road season and second echelon road pros who would
    >> enter at the last minute, depending on who else was on the start list and
    >> how they weighed their chances of success. Unlike amateur riders, there
    >> were very, very few dedicated pro pursuit riders and the team/financial
    >> support they received was not especially great.
    >>
    >> IMO, the reason the pros rode 5k while the amateurs rode 4k is that you
    >> had many nations who cultivated and supported specialized amateur pursuit
    >> riders. Especially in eastern Europe where riding worlds and olympics was
    >> the pinnacle of your career, not a step toward a pro road contract. The
    >> amateur riders would beat the times of the pro riders at the 4k distance
    >> often enough to make the pros look silly. Add 25% more distance for the
    >> pros so you can't compare apples to oranges.

    >
    > No, it was a little different. In the time of the first worldchampionships
    > pursuit (1939, 1946) amateurs were generally cyclists not yet old enough
    > to become pro. So it was very simple: 5 km for the pro's and only 4 fot
    > the amateurs (and 3 km for the women). In the heighdays the world title
    > was usually contested between some 6 day specialists (Peters, Schulte,
    > Faggin, Messina, etc.). and the best TT-riders among the road pros (Coppi,
    > Koblet, Anquetil, Rivière, Wim van Est, Baldini, Altig, etc., etc.). They
    > usually partcipated also to the world's road race, although that event
    > wasn't two weeks but only a few days, but because "peaking" wasn't yet
    > invented, nobody cared. In 1949 Coppi became worldchampion pusuit and a
    > few days later third in the world's road race. In 1976 Francecso Moser did
    > even better: worldchampion pursuit and second in the road race.
    >


    Thanks for the correction Benjo. I knew of Moser's instance, but was not
    familiar of the others farther back.
     
  11. Andy Coggan

    Andy Coggan Guest

    "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > In the time of the first worldchampionships pursuit (1939, 1946)


    The information I've seen indicates that the first world championships were
    held in 1946 - was there an earlier competition in 1939?

    Andy Coggan
     
  12. benjo maso

    benjo maso Guest

    "Andy Coggan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >>
    >> In the time of the first worldchampionships pursuit (1939, 1946)

    >
    > The information I've seen indicates that the first world championships
    > were held in 1946 - was there an earlier competition in 1939?



    It was planned for the worldchampionship in Varese and (if I am not
    mistaken), even the first qualifying rounds were already held, when WW II
    broke out

    Benjo
     
  13. Carl Sundquist wrote:

    >
    > I'm thinking that pros did not compete at 4k until the event became open in
    > 1994. Very rarely did you see top pros compete in the pursuit at the top of
    > their game partially because the event was held about 2 weeks prior to the
    > world's road race, making it difficult to peak for both events.
    > Consequently, the event was often filled with 6 day riders not dedicated to
    > the pro road season and second echelon road pros who would enter at the last
    > minute, depending on who else was on the start list and how they weighed
    > their chances of success. Unlike amateur riders, there were very, very few
    > dedicated pro pursuit riders and the team/financial support they received
    > was not especially great.
    >
    > IMO, the reason the pros rode 5k while the amateurs rode 4k is that you had
    > many nations who cultivated and supported specialized amateur pursuit
    > riders. Especially in eastern Europe where riding worlds and olympics was
    > the pinnacle of your career, not a step toward a pro road contract. The
    > amateur riders would beat the times of the pro riders at the 4k distance
    > often enough to make the pros look silly. Add 25% more distance for the pros
    > so you can't compare apples to oranges.



    A bit of Trivia is that Mike McArthey was the final 5K professional
    champion.

    I was able to attend the 86 worlds in Colorado Springs and was
    dissapointed that
    Moser didn't ride the pursuit. But I did get to see Carl take on
    Ekimov with no bearings
    in his front wheel (Carl's wheel, not Eki's)....
     
  14. <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > I was able to attend the 86 worlds in Colorado Springs and was
    > dissapointed that
    > Moser didn't ride the pursuit. But I did get to see Carl take on
    > Ekimov with no bearings
    > in his front wheel (Carl's wheel, not Eki's)....


    The UCI threw out the handicapping rule after that year
     
  15. Did you see the pursuiter at the 86 Worlds that had the whole steering
    tube separate from the frame just after the start? A vicious face plant
    followed. I'm pretty sure it was a women? Might have been one of those
    setups with the handbars attached to the fork crown.

    Lasting memory of that event was Whitehead going from the gun in an
    attempt to get out of the sprints reps in a 3-up. One guy pretty much
    flipped Mark off while the other one set about pulling him back and
    passing on the last lap. Oh yeah, seeing Carl race was neat too.
     
  16. [email protected] wrote:
    > Did you see the pursuiter at the 86 Worlds that had the whole steering
    > tube separate from the frame just after the start? A vicious face plant
    > followed. I'm pretty sure it was a women? Might have been one of those
    > setups with the handbars attached to the fork crown.
    >
    > Lasting memory of that event was Whitehead going from the gun in an
    > attempt to get out of the sprints reps in a 3-up. One guy pretty much
    > flipped Mark off while the other one set about pulling him back and
    > passing on the last lap. Oh yeah, seeing Carl race was neat too.


    Yes, it was a woman, a dutchwoman I believe. There was a dramatic
    photo of her lying on the track motionless with her broken bike lying
    on top of her. She didn't make it 1/8 th of a lap.

    I remember seeing a sprinter fall during qualifying and describe a arc
    across the banked turn. That was on day one, about 1 hour after I set
    eyes on a velodrome for the first time.

    20th anniversery memories would make a good thread....
     
  17. [email protected] wrote:
    > Can anybody point me to some good resources (books, articles, websites)
    > covering the history of the individual pursuit? I'm writing a
    > scientific article on the demands and determinants of performance in
    > the event...


    Sounds interesting. Can you let us know where the article was
    published, once it is?

    Thanks,

    Jim
     
  18. [email protected] wrote:
    > Did you see the pursuiter at the 86 Worlds that had the whole steering
    > tube separate from the frame just after the start? A vicious face plant
    > followed. I'm pretty sure it was a women? Might have been one of those
    > setups with the handbars attached to the fork crown.
    >
    > Lasting memory of that event was Whitehead going from the gun in an
    > attempt to get out of the sprints reps in a 3-up. One guy pretty much
    > flipped Mark off while the other one set about pulling him back and
    > passing on the last lap. Oh yeah, seeing Carl race was neat too.


    And the Greek Tandem going the last half lap on the stoker's collarbone.
     
  19. Was Barryman's(sp?) sprint career pretty much ended after a mishap at
    that World's or was that later?
     
  20. [email protected] wrote:
    > Was Barryman's(sp?) sprint career pretty much ended after a mishap at
    > that World's or was that later?



    Berreyman continued to ride at a high level into the early 90's,
    although he was sort of eclipsed by Ken Carpenter as the top US
    sprinter. Wonder what he's doing now...
     
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