Holy shatz! Cop stops bicycle!

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>, usenet-
[email protected] says...

....

> well and good to bleat about personal freedoms and the value of liberty,
> but those things need to be balanced by a sense of responsibility or
> they're worse than worthless, they become a liability to the community
> as a whole when abused by those who don't fully value them.
>
> </rant>

Well said!

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[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
Resound <[email protected]> writes:

> Now most of you are making the point that a cyclist hitting a car is,
> apart from a little panel damage, not going to do anyone any significant
> harm other than themselves.

Actually the original point in the original post was the
bicycles and cyclists should be licensed & registered and
maybe insured so that cyclist traffic law offenders could
be punished. Especially since bicycles have the alleged
potential of causing much damage and injury to motor
vehicles and their drivers.

Is the added governmental bureaucracy Non-Motor Vehicle
Departments etc. would create really so necessary?


cheers,
Tom

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[keydates]

On a slightly different topic, how do traffic lights work? I ask this
because sometimes at stoplights, I don't trigger a green light and end
up waiting 10 minutes for it (no, I'm not impatient).



--

 

[Resound]

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Resound <usenet-
> [email protected]> writes:
> > Now most of you are making the point that a cyclist hitting a car is,
> > apart from a little panel damage, not going to do anyone any
> > significant harm other than themselves.
> Actually the original point in the original post was the bicycles and
> cyclists should be licensed & registered and maybe insured so that
> cyclist traffic law offenders could be punished. Especially since
> bicycles have the alleged potential of causing much damage and injury to
> motor vehicles and their drivers.
> Is the added governmental bureaucracy Non-Motor Vehicle Departments etc.
> would create really so necessary?
> cheers, Tom
> --
> -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really
> at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca



I wouldn't go along with the registration and licensing of riders part.
It would put a lot of people off cycling, which is the last thing
needed. As someone else pointed out, offences committed by cyclists can
be dealt with in exactly the same way as any other offence committed by
someone who isn't carrying ID. I suppose that I'm neither specifically
for nor against the parent post, but I do hold some opinions that I felt
were relevant.



--

 

[Resound]

keydates wrote:
> On a slightly different topic, how do traffic lights work? I ask this
> because sometimes at stoplights, I don't trigger a green light and end
> up waiting 10 minutes for it (no, I'm not impatient).



In most places it counts as a non-functioning traffic signal. Proceed
with caution, and the law is most likely on your side in any case
(IANAL). If there aren't any cars around to trigger it for you then it's
a fair bet that the traffic is hardly murderous



--

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <NXnzc.23065$R%[email protected]>,
keydates <[email protected]> writes:
> On a slightly different topic, how do traffic lights work? I ask this
> because sometimes at stoplights, I don't trigger a green light and end
> up waiting 10 minutes for it (no, I'm not impatient).

http://bikesense.bc.ca/ch4.htm
and scroll down to the section titled: 'Traffic Signals'
(it's near the bottom of the page.)

Actually the whole Bike Sense manual is pretty good,
but it's in the context of British Columbia traffic law;
other jurisdications might differ on some of the legal
topics covered.


cheers,
Tom

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[John David Galt]

> Must be different where you live. As a 100% legally riding bicyclist
> I can say that the majority of drivers treat geese better than bicyclists.

Geese can't be expected to know what they're doing.

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
Resound <[email protected]> writes:

> I wouldn't go along with the registration and licensing of riders part.

Same here. But every once in awhile some officious driver such as
the original poster gets it into their head that it's a good idea.
Then they start trying to promote that idea. I'm compelled to do
all I can to keep them from getting very far with it.

> It would put a lot of people off cycling, which is the last thing
> needed. As someone else pointed out, offences committed by cyclists can
> be dealt with in exactly the same way as any other offence committed by
> someone who isn't carrying ID. I suppose that I'm neither specifically
> for nor against the parent post, but I do hold some opinions that I felt
> were relevant.

And I respect your opinions, and I think we're more or less
of the same mind. Scary, eh?


cheers again,
Tom

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[Brent P]

In article <[email protected]>, John David Galt wrote:
>> Must be different where you live. As a 100% legally riding bicyclist
>> I can say that the majority of drivers treat geese better than bicyclists.
>
> Geese can't be expected to know what they're doing.

I don't stop for geese, they then either abort their road crossing
nonsense or get out of the way before I reach them. Even if not so,
it's no excuse for treating them better than a legal road user.

 

[Kevan Smith]

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:32:45 GMT, keydates <[email protected]>
from cyclingforums.com wrote:

>On a slightly different topic, how do traffic lights work?

In a lot of different ways, none very bicycle oriented

If you are looking for ways to reduce your wait or make them all while they
are green, then the key is repetition. Ride the same routes each time and over
a period of a few weeks you will learn the speeds you need to ride between
various lights. I play it like a game now. My goal is to ride crosstown on my
fixie without putting a foot down -- trackstands don't count. In other words,
go crosstown making all the lights and not stopping. It's not an impossible
goal, I don't think.


--
Kevan Smith
[email protected]

 

[Tanya]

"Daniel J. Stern" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Tanya wrote:
>
> > The cops in Toronto are in the midst right now of their "Cycle Right"
> > campaign which basically means stopping bicycles for *any* sort of
> > infraction. More stories here:
> > http://www.web.net/~lukmar/BLD/B1398152979/C258049906/E1050780882/index.html
>
> Interesting!

Surely not interesting to the folks that find themselves with big fat
tickets for not having a bell or for doing a rolling stop at a stop
sign.

> > > Be nice if cops could/would (they probably can) write tickets and impound
> > > bicycles until the ticket is paid.
> >
> > Do you think they should do the same for automobiles?
>
> That's essentially what refusal to renew registration amounts to.

Ah but the difference is there is a grace period. I'm assuming you are
talking about impounding the bicycle on the spot. Also refusal to
renew registration only amounts to an effective impounding if you
actually get caught driving the car without the renewed registration.

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Brent P wrote:

> They slam on the brakes for the geese, wait untold minutes for the geese
> to cross the road...

Geese misuse the road out of ignorance and without malice. Too many
cyclists misuse the road knowingly and with malice. Perhaps that explains
why some motorists behave more benignly towards geese than towards
cyclists.

-Stern

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Tanya wrote:

> > > http://www.web.net/~lukmar/BLD/B1398152979/C258049906/E1050780882/index.html

> > Interesting!

> Surely not interesting to the folks that find themselves with big fat
> tickets for not having a bell or for doing a rolling stop at a stop
> sign.

Well, neither is it "interesting" for a motorist to receive a ticket
for rolling through a stop sign (there is no such thing as a "rolling
stop" -- if you're rolling, you didn't stop!) or for driving a car not
equipped with a horn.


> > > > Be nice if cops could/would (they probably can) write tickets and
> > > > impound bicycles until the ticket is paid.
> > >
> > > Do you think they should do the same for automobiles?
> >
> > That's essentially what refusal to renew registration amounts to.
>
> Ah but the difference is there is a grace period.

....and registration of cars, don't forget that. If bicycles had to be
registered, there'd be no reason for on-the-spot impoundment.

> I'm assuming you are talking about impounding the bicycle on the spot.
> Also refusal to renew registration only amounts to an effective
> impounding if you actually get caught driving the car without the
> renewed registration.

Since the registration expiry date is readily visible to even the casual
observer -- it's right on the rear license plate in most states and
provinces -- this offence gets noticed and ticketed in a hurry.
Practically nobody drives for long with expired plates. And the more
expired they get, the more trouble one stands to get in.

-Stern

 

[keydates]

Problem is, most of the times the "non-functioning" lights are the ones
at intersections where the cross traffic is very busy (ie a highway)
while I'm on an "ordinary road." Thus, I essentially have to wait for a
green light, which gets annoying if I have to wait so much longer than I
actually should.

Sometimes the crosswalks don't work either. At one intersection,
pressing the button does not get a green light and you wait there until
you say, "F*ck it, I'm going." and go. Then, of course, the light will
change. But only after you ran the red.



--

 

[Zoot Katz]

Mon, 14 Jun 2004 17:52:24 -0400,
<[email protected]>,
"Daniel J. Stern" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Too many
>cyclists misuse the road knowingly and with malice

Pull another fable out of your ass, goof.
--
zk

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
keydates <[email protected]> writes:
> Problem is, most of the times the "non-functioning" lights are the ones
> at intersections where the cross traffic is very busy (ie a highway)
> while I'm on an "ordinary road." Thus, I essentially have to wait for a
> green light, which gets annoying if I have to wait so much longer than I
> actually should.
>
> Sometimes the crosswalks don't work either. At one intersection,
> pressing the button does not get a green light and you wait there until
> you say, "F*ck it, I'm going." and go. Then, of course, the light will
> change. But only after you ran the red.

I sort of 'get' the lights Kevan is dealing with are on timers
rather than push buttons or sensors. In a lot of ways, I think
the ones on timers are preferable. At least you know you'll get
your green, sooner or later. And if there's a power outage,
those are the ones at which people best revert to 4-way stop rules.
Like you say, with push button lights there's no telling when
they're going to change, and no apparent rhyme or reason to their
arbitrarily-timed intervals. I think they must be controlled
with some hoary old COBOL computer program (with punch cards.)

One thing I especially hate about push button lights is when I
push the button, and wait, and wait, and wait. By the time
the light changes in my favour, the cross traffic has dwindled
to next to nothing, and I end up stopping one lone car, and
feeling like a heel as I pass by the driver.

Often it's best (for everybody) to not push the button, and
just wait for a safe break in the cross traffic instead.


cheers,
Tom

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[Paul]

"Scott in Aztlán" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> >Blow me. A dog, coon or skunk could do the same thing.
>
> Interesting... So you're saying that pedalcyclists are about as intelligent as
> dogs, coons, and skunks?

Actually most dogs around here are more intelligent. They will look before trying to
cross the road.

--
Paul

 

[Bernd Felsche]

"Daniel J. Stern" <[email protected]> writes:

>On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Tanya wrote:

>> The cops in Toronto are in the midst right now of their "Cycle Right"
>> campaign which basically means stopping bicycles for *any* sort of
>> infraction. More stories here:
>> http://www.web.net/~lukmar/BLD/B1398152979/C258049906/E1050780882/index.html

>Interesting!

I love it. A few cyclists incensed at being fined for the same
traffic code breaches as motorists.

Being fined shows that there's equal treatment of road users,
regardless of the means of motivation. They should be *pleased*.

If it becomes widely known, then more motorists might start to
respect cyclists on the road instead of thinking of them as
self-righteous, blithering idiots.
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[Brent P]

In article <[email protected]>, Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Brent P wrote:
>
>> They slam on the brakes for the geese, wait untold minutes for the geese
>> to cross the road...
>
> Geese misuse the road out of ignorance and without malice. Too many
> cyclists misuse the road knowingly and with malice. Perhaps that explains
> why some motorists behave more benignly towards geese than towards
> cyclists.

While we both do not tolerate stupidity by bicyclists or motorists, the
general situation is much different.

Most cyclists misuse the road through ingorance and stupidity just like
most drivers in the USA. Yet drivers forgive other drivers of these
actions. Those of us who don't tolerate this kind of thing are even
considered to be the problem, the idea of infinite tolerance of stupidity
amoung drivers is so wide spread. Yet, for a bicyclist, the very same
teachings of infinite tolerance do not apply, the average motorist
is thought to be within his rights to have no tolerance for stupidity
on the part of a bicyclist.

 

[Chris B.]

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:25:40 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Mon, 14 Jun 2004 17:52:24 -0400,
><[email protected]>,
>"Daniel J. Stern" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Too many
>>cyclists misuse the road knowingly and with malice
>
>Pull another fable out of your ass, goof.

My diagnosis re: Mr. Stern was obviously quite correct.