Honest "average" speeds



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Robert Siegel

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FYI only. Here's yet another truth check for those very fast "average" = ( and non-average) speeds
frequently reported on this NG. The following = post is copied directly from a Gainesville Cycling
Club post about its = fastest "roadie" group rides. --=20 Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush
**********This message has been posted to the gcc-fla maillist, the discussion and information list
for members of the Gainesville Cycling Club.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DA=
bout The Gliders

The Gliders are currently the fastest regularly meeting group of the = Gainesville Cycling Club.
Speeds average over 20 mph for most rides. = The group does attempt to be civil, stopping for flat
tires, and = reforming after difficult terrain (at least early in the ride). If you = are not riding
regularly with us, in a similar group, or on your own, = you will probably have difficulty staying
in contact on your first few = rides with us.

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<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Arial Black">FYI only. Here's yet = another truth=20 check for
those very fast "average" ( and non-average) speeds=20 frequently reported on this
NG. The following post is copied = directly from=20 a Gainesville Cycling Club post
about its fastest "roadie" group=20 rides.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DV><STRONG>-- <BR>Gator Bob Siegel<BR>EasyRacers Ti = Rush</STRONG></DIV>
<DVI><PRE>**********</PRE><PRE>This message has been posted to the = gcc-fla maillist, the
discussion and information list for members of the Gainesville Cycling Club.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<=
/PRE> <DIV class=3DSection1> <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue
size=3D5><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">About=20 The Gliders</SPAN></FONT></B></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DArial
color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue;
FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"></SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE:
12pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">The Gliders=20 are currently the fastest regularly meeting group of the
Gainesville = Cycling=20 Club. Speeds average over 20 mph for most rides. The group =
does=20 attempt to be civil, stopping for flat tires, and reforming after = difficult=20 terrain (at
least early in the ride). If you are not riding = regularly with=20 us, in a similar group, or
on your own, you will probably have = difficulty=20 staying in contact on your first few rides
with=20 us.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<DVII><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Arial = Black"><BR></FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C334B6.0BE2C8D0--
 
By average speed, most people seem to mean, "speed I remember when I looked at my computer." This,
of course, means lots of 20s and 21s on my commute! But those slow rolls and traffic take the
computer's average speed (friggin' thing is so obviously broken!) down to 16 mph REAL quick-like.

in a similar group, or on your own,
> you will probably have difficulty staying in contact on your first few rides with us.
 
Robert Siegel wrote:
> FYI only. Here's yet another truth check for those very fast "average" ( and non-average) speeds
> frequently reported on this NG. The following post is copied directly from a Gainesville Cycling
> Club post about its fastest "roadie" group rides.
>
> ...

Is this supposed to 'prove' that recumbents can't go significantly faster, or show that it's
entirely possible? IMHO 20 mph is a very mediocre average speed. I'll bet they work a paceline, but
still have plenty of breath left for talking.
--

John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24 --- _\\/\-%)
_________(_)`=()___________________(_)= (_)_____
 
Come on gimme a break here! Clear your cyclometer, leave the house ride to work, click on average
speed, read it, that is your average speed for the ride. For me its simple, Its 12 miles to town, no
stops. I join traffic in town, speed limit is 25. Traffic is usually at 25 or below. No stoplights
or stopsigns. Pedestrian crossings...ugh on the weekend. Tourist town! I cruise the town at no less
than 20 mph. Normally no honking or gestures...most realize that you can't go thru town at any more
than 25. Leave town, my shop is just over the town line....total distance
15.25 miles. In this secenerio its not hard to have a good average speed. When I click on average
speed at the end, it is what it is. What else can it be? My training commuting regime is like
this. Afternoon commute, work to maintain and average speed of 20mph or more irregardless of wind
conditions., heart rate Zone 3 with intervals into Zone 5. Morning ride...recovery. Maintain what
speed the conditions will allow..AND staying in HR Zone 2. If I'm interested in cranking it on. I
have a 20 mile in and out with beautiful smooth ashphalt for 90 % of it. I simply reset my
computer avg. speed and distance and go. Todays generation cyclocopmuters are pretty damm
accurate when calibrated correctly. Mine has been checked on a measured mile and GPS. So the
average speed can be accurate when properly applied. In my case, I look at the "average speed"
which is when you are actually moving vs. elapsed time. Rich Pinto at the SeaGull Century.
Average speed well over 20 mph. ET 6.5/7 hours. Half hour at each rest stop? (guess)

--
Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Seth Jayson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> By average speed, most people seem to mean, "speed I remember when I looked at my computer." This,
> of course, means lots of 20s and 21s on my commute! But those slow rolls and traffic take the
> computer's average speed (friggin' thing is so obviously broken!) down to 16 mph REAL quick-like.
>
>
> in a similar group, or on your own,
> > you will probably have difficulty staying in contact on your first few rides with us.
 
Sorry I got my mixed up on in my last post...it should have read

....heart rate Zone 3/4 with intervals into Zone 5. Morning ride...recovery. Maintain what speed the
conditions will allow..AND staying in HR Zone 2/3.

--
Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Jude T. McGloin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Come on gimme a break here! Clear your cyclometer, leave the house ride to work, click on
> average speed, read it, that is your average speed for the ride. For me its simple, Its 12
> miles to town, no stops. I join traffic
in
> town, speed limit is 25. Traffic is usually at 25 or below. No stoplights
or
> stopsigns. Pedestrian crossings...ugh on the weekend. Tourist town! I
cruise
> the town at no less than 20 mph. Normally no honking or gestures...most realize that you can't go
> thru town at any more than 25. Leave town, my shop is just over the town line....total distance
> 15.25 miles. In this secenerio its not hard to have a good average speed.
When
> I click on average speed at the end, it is what it is. What else can it
be?
> My training commuting regime is like this. Afternoon commute,
work
> to maintain and average speed of 20mph or more irregardless of wind conditions., heart rate Zone 3
> with intervals into Zone 5. Morning ride...recovery. Maintain what speed the conditions will
> allow..AND
staying
> in HR Zone 2. If I'm interested in cranking it on. I have a 20 mile in and
out
> with beautiful smooth ashphalt for 90 % of it. I simply reset my computer avg. speed and distance
> and go. Todays generation cyclocopmuters are pretty damm accurate when calibrated correctly. Mine
> has been checked on a measured mile and GPS. So the average speed can be accurate when properly
> applied. In my case, I look at the "average speed" which is when you are actually moving vs.
> elapsed time. Rich Pinto at the SeaGull Century. Average speed well over 20 mph. ET 6.5/7 hours.
> Half hour at each rest stop? (guess)
>
>
>
> --
> Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and
> Sports, Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Seth Jayson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > By average speed, most people seem to mean, "speed I remember when I looked at my computer."
> > This, of course, means lots of 20s and 21s on my commute! But those slow rolls and traffic take
> > the computer's average speed (friggin' thing is so obviously broken!) down to 16 mph REAL
> > quick-like.
> >
> >
> > in a similar group, or on your own,
> > > you will probably have difficulty staying in contact on your first few rides with us.
> >
 
[email protected] (Seth Jayson) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> By average speed, most people seem to mean, "speed I remember when I looked at my computer." This,
> of course, means lots of 20s and 21s on my commute! But those slow rolls and traffic take the
> computer's average speed (friggin' thing is so obviously broken!) down to 16 mph REAL quick-like.
>
>
I think you've put your finger on part of the problem. To me, average speed is what the auto-start
computer comes up with at the end of a ride. Looking down at the computer and picking a number might
be better labelled, "pace" or "cruising speed." No matter what, I'd take it to mean out on the open
road, not in stop-and-go stuff like urban commuting. It's hard to make even 15 mph average if you're
braking to stop every block or two.

Given the Gainseville group's posted average speed and their policy of stopping for mechanicals, I
doubt they're in an urban setting. That's what is done on suburban or rural rides. The question
becomes, is it cruising speed or computed average? Either way, they are in no way elite riders, just
moderately fast clubbies.
 
On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:50:56 -0400, John Foltz <[email protected]> wrote:

>IMHO 20 mph is a very mediocre average speed. I'll bet they work a paceline, but still have plenty
>of breath left for talking.

I would agree - I have maintained an average of 20mph on the computer for a week's commuting on my
upright tourer, and have also averaged over 20mph riding from my parents' house back to my place, a
distance of about 40 miles, on the same bike. Summer fitness, clear roads, sunny day, feeling good.
So for a pack of roadies that's really nothing special.

The average average, if you see what I mean, is more like 16.5 for all journeys on the tourer,
including leisure and shopping, and the same for the 'bent. The 'bent is heavier and has suspension.

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com Advance
notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.
 
I got back from Freewheel. I averaged 15mph or 16mph most of thje six day 400+ mile ride. This was good for me to retain a pace so long. Although, it is embarrasingly modest to compared to some of the speed claims here.
 
Clearly, that's not the case. Average speed, like it or not, is all in people's heads. That's why
they cause such an uproar among the people who know what a real, computed average speed is, and the
people who take their average by eyeball through rose-tinted lenses.

Who really cares in the end?

> Come on gimme a break here! Clear your cyclometer, leave the house ride to work, click on average
> speed, read it, that is your average speed for the ride.
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> I got back from Freewheel. I averaged 15mph or 16mph most of thje six day 400+ mile ride. This was
> good for me to retain a pace so long. Although, it is embarrasingly modest to compared to some of
> the speed claims here.

No one is claiming '15mph or 16mph' for 'most of the six day 400+ mile ride.' Most 20+ boasts are
for 30 miles or less and rarely for over 50 and never for successive days.

My personal best was 21+ mph for the first half of a century and I would not have been able to
repeat that on day two or even the 17.5 that I managed for the complete century. You have nothing to
be embarassed about. I would be quite proud of a report of OK Freewheel like yours.

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -
 
Seth, Hang around this NG and BROL msg. board for awhile and then attend a few recumbent rallies and
you will realize who is posting truthful speed and who is full of **** and knows it.
--
Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Seth Jayson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Clearly, that's not the case. Average speed, like it or not, is all in people's heads. That's why
> they cause such an uproar among the people who know what a real, computed average speed is, and
> the people who take their average by eyeball through rose-tinted lenses.
>
> Who really cares in the end?
>
>
> > Come on gimme a break here! Clear your cyclometer, leave the house ride to work, click on
> > average speed, read it, that is your average
speed
> > for the ride.
 
When I used to live in Houston, I rode the Houston-Austin MS-150 three different years, twice on a
DF road bike, and once on a 'bent. Nice thing about this ride is that it's a one-way affair (return
by bus or team van) with the prevailing SE wind at your back most of the way, so even outa-shape
fatso types can turn in 21 MPH average speeds--big time graggin' rights.

Bill Anton 2001 Vision R-40 SWB OSS Lubbock, TX, USA

bentcruiser <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> I got back from Freewheel. I averaged 15mph or 16mph most of thje six day 400+ mile ride. This was
> good for me to retain a pace so long. Although, it is embarrasingly modest to compared to some of
> the speed claims here.
>
>
>
> --
> - - - - Derek Burley Canto, modified
>
> - - - - Derek Burley Canto, modified
>
> >--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com http://www.cyclingforums.com
 
"Jude T. McGloin" wrote:
> ... In my case, I look at the "average speed" which is when you are actually moving vs. elapsed
> time. Rich Pinto at the SeaGull Century. Average speed well over 20 mph. ET 6.5/7 hours. Half hour
> at each rest stop? (guess)

Half-hour rest stops? Even I usually don't take that long. ;) At the other extreme are those who
only stop once on a century for just long enough to refill their hydration bladders (Hi Ed) and
average over 20 mph including the rest stop (and 22-23 mph rolling average).

For those who doubt these average speeds, see the results of the 2002 UMCA Championships [1] where
the winner of the six hour race averaged
22.2 mph on a Challenge Jester on a course with an average of 35ft/mile of climbing.

[23] < http://www.iowaultra.com/2002-24hr-results.htm >

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
 
Jude T. McGloin wrote:
> Seth, Hang around this NG and BROL msg. board for awhile and then attend a few recumbent rallies
> and you will realize who is posting truthful speed and who is full of **** and knows it.
>
A deceptively simple solution. Not to single Seth out, but those who doubt should attend a rally or
two. You'll never know for sure who the bullsh**ers are until you see them ride. I always like to
meet people at events, so I can put faces with the names. I'll be at MRR. Are you planning on
going, Seth?
--

John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24 --- _\\/\-%)
_________(_)`=()___________________(_)= (_)_____
 
> > Seth, Hang around this NG and BROL msg. board for awhile and then attend a few recumbent rallies
> > and you will realize who is posting truthful speed
> > and who is full of **** and knows it.

Maybe that's true, but I still don't care a whole lot. I find bullshitters very interesting folks (I
grew up on the Iron Range of MN, where everything is assumed to be BS.), whereas I know many folks
capable of great speeds who are as boring as an ABC sitcom.

In the end, I ride for fun. Sometimes that means trying to smoke people head-to-head. Lately, it
means getting smoked by the ladies up in Barrington.

If I want to feel faster than other people (instead of feeling like I have a superior bike-- which I
don't, *yet*--a dishonest cyclometer, or an easier road to ride), I strap on my running shoes.

I'm sure we'll run into each other at a few of the upcoming rides, and then we can argue about
average speeds the way the Gods intended, while drinking a beer.

Seth-putting an extra magnet on his spokes-Jayson
 
Hi Tom,

Alan's 6 hour UMCA speed was I believe over 23 mph and it was on a loop course with a total
elevation change of over 3600 feet. To add credence to his effort it was accomplished with
no drafting.

I specifically recalled recent 60 mile training rides he completes in the 25 plus mph range by
himself......

Drafting is a tremendous way to boost ones speed, specifically above 20 mph. Witness how easy it was
for you to stay in tow behind our "recreational fun double, ride with the woman paceline" at 22 mph
for hours on end.......

As they say, a personal TT is "the race of truth." Quoting Gary "Siloboy" drafting is an act of
submission......

Ed - will draft big TF'd lowracers though - Gin

Tom Sherman wrote:

> "Jude T. McGloin" wrote:
> > ... In my case, I look at the "average speed" which is when you are actually moving vs. elapsed
> > time. Rich Pinto at the SeaGull Century. Average speed well over 20 mph. ET 6.5/7 hours. Half
> > hour at each rest stop? (guess)
>
> Half-hour rest stops? Even I usually don't take that long. ;) At the other extreme are those who
> only stop once on a century for just long enough to refill their hydration bladders (Hi Ed) and
> average over 20 mph including the rest stop (and 22-23 mph rolling average).
>
> For those who doubt these average speeds, see the results of the 2002 UMCA Championships [1] where
> the winner of the six hour race averaged
> 22.2 mph on a Challenge Jester on a course with an average of 35ft/mile of climbing.
>
> [1] < http://www.iowaultra.com/2002-24hr-results.htm >
>
> Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
 
OK now Seth,

Tell the truth, what was that community complaint I suffered on Bateman Rd. after the 10th "mini
stage race" run by the women? I seem to recalled you won the dash to Lake Cook Road down the twisty
double descent!

The day you ride your own Volae, will certainly turn the tables around for the women! Then you will
see plus 20 mph average speeds on our Barrington Hills course without "the extra magnet."

Ed - instigator and promoter of mini stage fun runs - Gin

Seth Jayson wrote:

> > > Seth, Hang around this NG and BROL msg. board for awhile and then attend a few recumbent
> > > rallies and you will realize who is posting truthful speed
> > > and who is full of **** and knows it.
>
> Maybe that's true, but I still don't care a whole lot. I find bullshitters very interesting folks
> (I grew up on the Iron Range of MN, where everything is assumed to be BS.), whereas I know many
> folks capable of great speeds who are as boring as an ABC sitcom.
>
> In the end, I ride for fun. Sometimes that means trying to smoke people head-to-head. Lately, it
> means getting smoked by the ladies up in Barrington.
>
> If I want to feel faster than other people (instead of feeling like I have a superior bike-- which
> I don't, *yet*--a dishonest cyclometer, or an easier road to ride), I strap on my running shoes.
>
> I'm sure we'll run into each other at a few of the upcoming rides, and then we can argue about
> average speeds the way the Gods intended, while drinking a beer.
>
> Seth-putting an extra magnet on his spokes-Jayson
 
Ed Gin & Shirleen Kajiwara wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> Alan's 6 hour UMCA speed was I believe over 23 mph and it was on a loop course with a total
> elevation change of over 3600 feet. To add credence to his effort it was accomplished with no
> drafting....

Ed,

My figure of an average speed for Alan of 22.2 mph comes directly from the UMCA website, and 133
miles divided by 6 hours is 22.2 mph. However, only full laps are counted, so Alan may well have had
an actual average rolling speed in the 23 mph range, since he did not take the full 6 hours to
complete the seven 19 mile long laps. It should also be noted that Alan is the only person to ever
complete more than 6 laps in this race. I also understand that Alan did not draft anyone during the
race, even though drafting is allowed.

If the UMCA figure of 660 feet of climbing per lap is correct, Alan climbed a total of 4620 feet
during the race (the works out to be the
35/feet per mile I mentioned earlier.

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
 
Seth, I found that the majority of the riders on racing side of the club I belonged to for many
years to have the personalities of the average garden slug. I would train with them but also ride
the Wednesday Night Beginners rides usually sweeping the rear and chatting with the new folks. I
like meeting new people and I'm really not all that competitive. Fun means different things to
different people. I ride often with the same people. We have fun going 20-25 and fun going 15. We
also have some serious competition at times also. My wife is from MN, Detroit Lakes and I have
ridden all over the place up there in past years. Mostly pre- recumbent. Your right about the BS
there all you gotta do is meet my brother in law Bud.

--
Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Seth Jayson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > > Seth, Hang around this NG and BROL msg. board for awhile and then attend a few recumbent
> > > rallies and you will realize who is posting truthful
speed
> > > and who is full of **** and knows it.
>
> Maybe that's true, but I still don't care a whole lot. I find bullshitters very interesting folks
> (I grew up on the Iron Range of MN, where everything is assumed to be BS.), whereas I know many
> folks capable of great speeds who are as boring as an ABC sitcom.
>
> In the end, I ride for fun. Sometimes that means trying to smoke people head-to-head. Lately, it
> means getting smoked by the ladies up in Barrington.
>
> If I want to feel faster than other people (instead of feeling like I have a superior bike-- which
> I don't, *yet*--a dishonest cyclometer, or an easier road to ride), I strap on my running shoes.
>
> I'm sure we'll run into each other at a few of the upcoming rides, and then we can argue about
> average speeds the way the Gods intended, while drinking a beer.
>
> Seth-putting an extra magnet on his spokes-Jayson
 
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

<snip>
> For those who doubt these average speeds, see the results of the 2002 UMCA Championships [1] where
> the winner of the six hour race averaged
> 22.2 mph on a Challenge Jester on a course with an average of 35ft/mile of climbing.
>
> [1] < http://www.iowaultra.com/2002-24hr-results.htm >
>
A sanctioned race with elapsed time recorded and distance measured by a known and reliable
sanctioning body would result in what I would consider to be "honest average speeds". There's no
shuck and jive in race results.

I applaud all the competitors from the fastest to the slowest.

skip
 
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