Hood position

[Brendo]

HI guys. After buying the bike in March, I've done around 250km
on it, in about 4 big (for me) rides and a dozen pissy little
round the block jobs. Basically really not utilised it at all. So
I've decided to give it a bit more of a red hot rip. But I'm
starting back from square one, and around 5kg heavier than
before. The bike I bought for my wife now has a new home in
Canberra, so I'll need to go it alone. The mag trainer has been
useful, but gee those things are boring. The first five minutes
I'm thinking scrape the mud, drive the knee. Then it's what's for
tea, who did Hawthorn trade, could I make the garage neater, ouch
my bum etc etc.

Question that I have is can you move the position of the levers
along the bar? When I set the bar so the drops are comfortable,
the hoods seem a long way out in front. Can I slide them back up
the bar so they are closer to me? I had a look, and there's bar
tape all over it, so I thought before wrecking the tape I should
check with those who (might) know.

Or, before doing that, should I get a proper fit as it may be the
stem, or seat position, etc etc. I've been fiddling with the seat
height, position, flipped the stem, moved the bars up, moved them
down. Some places feel better, some feel worse, nothing seems to
feel Fantastic, but maybe that's just practise, time on the
saddle and becoming more flexible than my current form(not unlike
dried Jarrah).

Thanks for any help,

Brendo.

p.s. Don't strange rantings from dropkicks in a bicycle newsgroup
give you the sh*ts.

 

[Rayc]

Brendo wrote:

> Question that I have is can you move the position of the levers
> along the bar? When I set the bar so the drops are comfortable,
> the hoods seem a long way out in front. Can I slide them back up
> the bar so they are closer to me? I had a look, and there's bar
> tape all over it, so I thought before wrecking the tape I should
> check with those who (might) know.
>
The classic position for brake levers is to run a straight line/ruler
across the bottom of the drop and line it up with the up the bottom of
the lever, (see
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/fix/roadposition_files/roadposition11.jpg)

The trend for racers seems to have migrated to a higher lever/higher
hoods position for more comfort.

But as always the bike has to fit you, if in doubt, start with a bike
shop fit - then experiment

> Or, before doing that, should I get a proper fit as it may be the
> stem, or seat position, etc etc. I've been fiddling with the seat
> height, position, flipped the stem, moved the bars up, moved them
> down. Some places feel better, some feel worse, nothing seems to
> feel Fantastic, but maybe that's just practise, time on the
> saddle and becoming more flexible than my current form(not unlike
> dried Jarrah).
try here for a basic guide
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-sizing.html

ray

 

[Marx SS]

Being kind of new myself to the whole drop-bar caper – coming from 15yrs of flat MTBs – is have still yet to find it overall comfortable. I think I’ve just resigned myself to the fact that roadbike riding isn’t really supposed to be comfortable, just as long as you position is aero-enough, nothing goes numb (and falls off) & you get an efficient pedal stroke than it’s a peachy as will ever be.

Doing distances over 150kms is the best way to find your sweet spot, bring some tools on longer rides. First getting my roadie I would adjust something, lap the block – think it’s the business & then later discover out somewhere beyond boonies that it’s all wrong.

Thing about riding up on the hoods is that the brake levers are the important thing, & sometimes moving the brakes about on the ‘bars for a good possie for riding on the hoods, effects your reach to the brake levers. Also you got to reapply the ‘bar tape after moving the brakes which isn’t much fun sometimes.

 

[Bleve]

Brendo wrote:
> HI guys. After buying the bike in March, I've done around 250km
> on it, in about 4 big (for me) rides and a dozen pissy little
> round the block jobs. Basically really not utilised it at all. So
> I've decided to give it a bit more of a red hot rip. But I'm
> starting back from square one, and around 5kg heavier than
> before. The bike I bought for my wife now has a new home in
> Canberra, so I'll need to go it alone. The mag trainer has been
> useful, but gee those things are boring. The first five minutes
> I'm thinking scrape the mud, drive the knee. Then it's what's for
> tea, who did Hawthorn trade, could I make the garage neater, ouch
> my bum etc etc.
>
> Question that I have is can you move the position of the levers
> along the bar? When I set the bar so the drops are comfortable,
> the hoods seem a long way out in front. Can I slide them back up
> the bar so they are closer to me? I had a look, and there's bar
> tape all over it, so I thought before wrecking the tape I should
> check with those who (might) know.

Yes, you can move them a little (maybe 5mm or so) without it causing
much damage to the bartape. Generally, don't worry about the drops at
all, you'll ride there maybe 2-5% of the time you ride. Get the hoods
comfortable, that's what matters. The old rule of thumb Ray cites
about parallel drops etc has generally gone where it belongs

> Or, before doing that, should I get a proper fit as it may be the
> stem, or seat position, etc etc. I've been fiddling with the seat
> height, position, flipped the stem, moved the bars up, moved them
> down. Some places feel better, some feel worse, nothing seems to
> feel Fantastic, but maybe that's just practise, time on the
> saddle and becoming more flexible than my current form(not unlike
> dried Jarrah).

I would suggest a fit, but must declare a conflict of interest, I do
bike fits at an LBS and thus, have a vested interest.

>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Brendo.
>
> p.s. Don't strange rantings from dropkicks in a bicycle newsgroup
> give you the sh*ts.

The rantings are easy enough to ignore, if no-one bothers to follow up
to them the trolls go elsewhere. They're only after attention.

 

[Artoi]

In article <[email protected]>,
Brendo <[email protected]> wrote:

> HI guys. After buying the bike in March, I've done around 250km
> on it, in about 4 big (for me) rides and a dozen pissy little
> round the block jobs. Basically really not utilised it at all...

Based on personal experiences, I know exactly what you are talking
about. And 250km in half a year is really nothing. You should be aiming
for 250km every fortnight if not more! A few suggestions that has worked
for me,

1) Find some riding mates and go out to explore the city every Sun or
Sat morning (before it gets hot).

2) Join a cycling club, whether it's a recreational or racing one, and
participate in their organized rides. It's much more interesting and
motivational.

3) Take the bar tape off and set the bar/shifters to a comfortable
position before retaping. The most comfortable position is to have the
top of the bar/hood lined up in a flat plane and parallel to the ground.
Try it out on some rides and make final personal adjustments before
taping it all up again. It took me 4 rewraps to get it right. If you are
careful, you can reuse the same tape.

4) Map out a route around your home and go out to ride at 6am or
earlier. It's the best time with plenty of light, minimal
vehicular/pedestrian traffic and fresh air. Forget about the home
trainer unless it's raining.

Hope these helps.
--

 

[Michael Warner]

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 07:49:13 +0800, Brendo wrote:

> HI guys. After buying the bike in March, I've done around 250km
> on it, in about 4 big (for me) rides and a dozen pissy little
> round the block jobs. Basically really not utilised it at all. So
> I've decided to give it a bit more of a red hot rip. But I'm
> starting back from square one, and around 5kg heavier than
> before. The bike I bought for my wife now has a new home in
> Canberra, so I'll need to go it alone. The mag trainer has been
> useful, but gee those things are boring. The first five minutes
> I'm thinking scrape the mud, drive the knee. Then it's what's for
> tea, who did Hawthorn trade, could I make the garage neater, ouch
> my bum etc etc.

I know a few people who've stuck with a mag trainer as a permanent part
of their training, and they say they face the telly and use training DVDs
to keep them motivated. I haven't seen them, but presumably they show
you nice scenery that you're riding through, make you vary your effort
and cadence, stand up etc. Regular standing would help your bum, too

> Question that I have is can you move the position of the levers
> along the bar? When I set the bar so the drops are comfortable,
> the hoods seem a long way out in front. Can I slide them back up
> the bar so they are closer to me? I had a look, and there's bar
> tape all over it, so I thought before wrecking the tape I should
> check with those who (might) know.
>
> Or, before doing that, should I get a proper fit as it may be the
> stem, or seat position, etc etc. I've been fiddling with the seat
> height, position, flipped the stem, moved the bars up, moved them
> down. Some places feel better, some feel worse, nothing seems to
> feel Fantastic, but maybe that's just practise, time on the
> saddle and becoming more flexible than my current form(not unlike
> dried Jarrah).

If you look at some online bike fit guides, you'll see that the standard
procedure is to set the saddle position, then go on the hoods and
check that the bars obscure your view of the front hub to get the
stem length right. Try that with the shifters in the standard position
(that others have described), then move them if you still feel too
stretched out. Remember that your elbows should be slightly bent.

The other variable here is bar height relative to your saddle. If you don't
have back trouble, try a couple of inches below it.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

 

[Brendo]

Michael Warner wrote:
(SNIP)
> If you look at some online bike fit guides, you'll see that the standard
> procedure is to set the saddle position, then go on the hoods and
> check that the bars obscure your view of the front hub to get the
> stem length right. Try that with the shifters in the standard position
> (that others have described), then move them if you still feel too
> stretched out. Remember that your elbows should be slightly bent.
>
> The other variable here is bar height relative to your saddle. If you don't
> have back trouble, try a couple of inches below it.

Just had a look on the bike re the 'obscured view of the front
hub' thing. If I look down I can see the hub about an inch inside
the bar. Maybe I should try a shorter stem. I will get fitted
tomorrow and see how things go. For $30 it can't get any worse,
and it might just be the start of something beautiful. (riding
the bike more, not hooking up with one of the LBS staff)

More on this tomorrow!

Brendo

 

[Artoi]

In article <[email protected]>,
Brendo <[email protected]> wrote:

> Michael Warner wrote:
> (SNIP)
> > If you look at some online bike fit guides, you'll see that the standard
> > procedure is to set the saddle position, then go on the hoods and
> > check that the bars obscure your view of the front hub to get the
> > stem length right. Try that with the shifters in the standard position
> > (that others have described), then move them if you still feel too
> > stretched out. Remember that your elbows should be slightly bent.
> >
> > The other variable here is bar height relative to your saddle. If you don't
> > have back trouble, try a couple of inches below it.
>
> Just had a look on the bike re the 'obscured view of the front
> hub' thing. If I look down I can see the hub about an inch inside
> the bar. Maybe I should try a shorter stem. I will get fitted
> tomorrow and see how things go. For $30 it can't get any worse,
> and it might just be the start of something beautiful. (riding
> the bike more, not hooking up with one of the LBS staff)

I read elsewhere that the position to check this is to have your hands
in the drop position. Sounds like there's some confusion here. Another
one I've read is that while over the hood and looking ahead, one's eyes
should be right over the bar at the head of the stem. Or maybe it's all
just an approximation.
--

 

[Donga]

Artoi wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Brendo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Michael Warner wrote:
> > (SNIP)
> > > If you look at some online bike fit guides, you'll see that the standard
> > > procedure is to set the saddle position, then go on the hoods and
> > > check that the bars obscure your view of the front hub to get the
> > > stem length right. Try that with the shifters in the standard position
> > > (that others have described), then move them if you still feel too
> > > stretched out. Remember that your elbows should be slightly bent.
> > >
> > > The other variable here is bar height relative to your saddle. If you don't
> > > have back trouble, try a couple of inches below it.
> >
> > Just had a look on the bike re the 'obscured view of the front
> > hub' thing. If I look down I can see the hub about an inch inside
> > the bar. Maybe I should try a shorter stem. I will get fitted
> > tomorrow and see how things go. For $30 it can't get any worse,
> > and it might just be the start of something beautiful. (riding
> > the bike more, not hooking up with one of the LBS staff)
>
> I read elsewhere that the position to check this is to have your hands
> in the drop position. Sounds like there's some confusion here. Another
> one I've read is that while over the hood and looking ahead, one's eyes
> should be right over the bar at the head of the stem. Or maybe it's all
> just an approximation.
> --

Surely it is just an approximation, assuming everyone has the same
distance between their shoulder joint and their eyes? It would seem the
distances from seat to shoulder and shoulder to bar are far more
significant.

Donga

 

[Rayc]

Artoi wrote:
>
> I read elsewhere that the position to check this is to have your hands
> in the drop position. Sounds like there's some confusion here. Another
> one I've read is that while over the hood and looking ahead, one's eyes
> should be right over the bar at the head of the stem. Or maybe it's all
> just an approximation.
> --

I guess it depends on what position you want.
Are you racing? As racers get fitter and rider for longer/harder, Hbar
position generally seems to move lower, bar top/stem height can get
(roughly/ ymmv) -2inches, and as low as -6inches below saddle

For less athletic pursuits, +/- 2inches, seems the norm.

As written above, get the seat height and position, forward/rearward
set and then adjust bar height for your balance of comfort and athletic
pursuit.

I would suggest that if you are planning to ride for more than 1/2 hour
at a time or plan to ride along above 15km/hr, get the bike 'fitted'.

Nothing beats the feeling when a bike is helping you ride at your best.
Allowing you, the engine, to get on with doing your best.

 

[Brendo]

Artoi wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Brendo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Michael Warner wrote:
>>(SNIP)
>>
>>>If you look at some online bike fit guides, you'll see that the standard
>>>procedure is to set the saddle position, then go on the hoods and
>>>check that the bars obscure your view of the front hub to get the
>>>stem length right. Try that with the shifters in the standard position
>>>(that others have described), then move them if you still feel too
>>>stretched out. Remember that your elbows should be slightly bent.
>>>
>>>The other variable here is bar height relative to your saddle. If you don't
>>>have back trouble, try a couple of inches below it.
>>
>>Just had a look on the bike re the 'obscured view of the front
>>hub' thing. If I look down I can see the hub about an inch inside
>>the bar. Maybe I should try a shorter stem. I will get fitted
>>tomorrow and see how things go. For $30 it can't get any worse,
>>and it might just be the start of something beautiful. (riding
>>the bike more, not hooking up with one of the LBS staff)
>
>
> I read elsewhere that the position to check this is to have your hands
> in the drop position. Sounds like there's some confusion here. Another
> one I've read is that while over the hood and looking ahead, one's eyes
> should be right over the bar at the head of the stem. Or maybe it's all
> just an approximation.
> --

So basically, where ever your head is, it shouldn't be!! I guess
the LBS will be a bit of an approximation as well, but I'll
'feel' it's correct if I pay for it!

Brendo

 

[Resound]

"Brendo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Artoi wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Brendo <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Michael Warner wrote:
>>>(SNIP)
>>>
>>>>If you look at some online bike fit guides, you'll see that the standard
>>>>procedure is to set the saddle position, then go on the hoods and
>>>>check that the bars obscure your view of the front hub to get the
>>>>stem length right. Try that with the shifters in the standard position
>>>>(that others have described), then move them if you still feel too
>>>>stretched out. Remember that your elbows should be slightly bent.
>>>>
>>>>The other variable here is bar height relative to your saddle. If you
>>>>don't
>>>>have back trouble, try a couple of inches below it.
>>>
>>>Just had a look on the bike re the 'obscured view of the front hub'
>>>thing. If I look down I can see the hub about an inch inside the bar.
>>>Maybe I should try a shorter stem. I will get fitted tomorrow and see how
>>>things go. For $30 it can't get any worse, and it might just be the start
>>>of something beautiful. (riding the bike more, not hooking up with one of
>>>the LBS staff)
>>
>>
>> I read elsewhere that the position to check this is to have your hands in
>> the drop position. Sounds like there's some confusion here. Another one
>> I've read is that while over the hood and looking ahead, one's eyes
>> should be right over the bar at the head of the stem. Or maybe it's all
>> just an approximation.
>> --
>
> So basically, where ever your head is, it shouldn't be!! I guess the LBS
> will be a bit of an approximation as well, but I'll 'feel' it's correct if
> I pay for it!
>
The correct place for your head is placed precisely on the end of your neck.
Working out where it and the rest of your spine should be is the tricky bit.

 

[Michael Warner]

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:26:20 +0800, Brendo wrote:

> Michael Warner wrote:
> (SNIP)
>> If you look at some online bike fit guides, you'll see that the standard
>> procedure is to set the saddle position, then go on the hoods and
>> check that the bars obscure your view of the front hub to get the
>> stem length right. Try that with the shifters in the standard position
>> (that others have described), then move them if you still feel too
>> stretched out. Remember that your elbows should be slightly bent.
>>
>> The other variable here is bar height relative to your saddle. If you don't
>> have back trouble, try a couple of inches below it.
>
> Just had a look on the bike re the 'obscured view of the front
> hub' thing. If I look down I can see the hub about an inch inside
> the bar. Maybe I should try a shorter stem.

You don't necessarily need it - I can see my hub behind the bars,
but I have long arms and a good back, so I I'm comfortable stretched
out more than many people. I also have the bars about 4" below the
saddle.

Maybe it's because I've never been professionally fitted to a bike, but I
don't see how it could take account of the different tolerances people
have to being bent over while riding for long periods.


--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

 

[Brendo]

Michael Warner wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:26:20 +0800, Brendo wrote:
>
>
>>Michael Warner wrote:
>>(SNIP)
>>
>>>If you look at some online bike fit guides, you'll see that the standard
>>>procedure is to set the saddle position, then go on the hoods and
>>>check that the bars obscure your view of the front hub to get the
>>>stem length right. Try that with the shifters in the standard position
>>>(that others have described), then move them if you still feel too
>>>stretched out. Remember that your elbows should be slightly bent.
>>>
>>>The other variable here is bar height relative to your saddle. If you don't
>>>have back trouble, try a couple of inches below it.
>>
>>Just had a look on the bike re the 'obscured view of the front
>>hub' thing. If I look down I can see the hub about an inch inside
>>the bar. Maybe I should try a shorter stem.
>
>
> You don't necessarily need it - I can see my hub behind the bars,
> but I have long arms and a good back, so I I'm comfortable stretched
> out more than many people. I also have the bars about 4" below the
> saddle.
>
> Maybe it's because I've never been professionally fitted to a bike, but I
> don't see how it could take account of the different tolerances people
> have to being bent over while riding for long periods.
>
>
I tend to agree a bit. The more youride, the more flexible
youget, the further forward you will be willing to lean.

Brendo

 

[Artoi]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Rayc" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I would suggest that if you are planning to ride for more than 1/2 hour
> at a time or plan to ride along above 15km/hr, get the bike 'fitted'.

Are you kidding? My 6 yrs son often ride for more than 30mins... Shock
and horrors, he hasn't been fitted (whatever that means)!!!
--

 

[Artoi]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Donga" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Surely it is just an approximation, assuming everyone has the same
> distance between their shoulder joint and their eyes? It would seem the
> distances from seat to shoulder and shoulder to bar are far more
> significant.

Some of these fitting are almost impossible unless you have a bundle of
cash and is able to try all the different frame and stem sizes under
real road conditions. I can't see how spending 10mins riding in each
position on a static trainer can definitively tell you the ultimate
answer.
--

 

[Bleve]

Brendo wrote:
> Michael Warner wrote:
> (SNIP)
> > If you look at some online bike fit guides, you'll see that the standard
> > procedure is to set the saddle position, then go on the hoods and
> > check that the bars obscure your view of the front hub to get the
> > stem length right. Try that with the shifters in the standard position
> > (that others have described), then move them if you still feel too
> > stretched out. Remember that your elbows should be slightly bent.
> >
> > The other variable here is bar height relative to your saddle. If you don't
> > have back trouble, try a couple of inches below it.
>
> Just had a look on the bike re the 'obscured view of the front
> hub' thing. If I look down I can see the hub about an inch inside
> the bar. Maybe I should try a shorter stem. I will get fitted
> tomorrow and see how things go. For $30 it can't get any worse,
> and it might just be the start of something beautiful. (riding
> the bike more, not hooking up with one of the LBS staff)

The obscured hub thing is another one of those hairy old myths that
perpetuate, like KOPS, the 'lemond method' and so on. It's basically
bull. What matters is how comfortable you are when on the hoods.
Everyone's different, and a bike fit can take a -long- time sometimes,
we usually expect in excess of 90 minutes on a spin trainer while we go
through it, and that's only to get a first approximation.

Have a read of this,

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

it's one of the better fit descriptions I've seen. I personally tend
to use a derivation of Keith Bontrager's methods with a bit of this one
thrown in and Steve Hogg's 5-10mm of axle setback. If a shop gets out
the 'fit kit', walk away. It's a sham.

 

[Michael Warner]

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:57:52 +0800, Brendo wrote:

> I tend to agree a bit. The more youride, the more flexible
> youget, the further forward you will be willing to lean.

OTOH, the more you ride, the older you get, and the more
upright your back may want you to be. But I hope to avoid
that effect for a few more years

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

 

[Michael Warner]

On 17 Oct 2006 06:05:17 -0700, Bleve wrote:

> The obscured hub thing is another one of those hairy old myths that
> perpetuate, like KOPS, the 'lemond method' and so on. It's basically
> bull.

They're a safe, reasonably comfortable starting point for people who can't
or won't spend the time and money needed to be fitted by experts such as
yourself, though. The problem is when they're taken as gospel, and people
won't experiment to find out what improvements they can make.

> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

Good stuff. It's interesting that frame size seems to be at the bottom
of his list of priorities.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

 

[Rayc]

Artoi wrote:
> Are you kidding? My 6 yrs son often ride for more than 30mins... Shock
> and horrors, he hasn't been fitted (whatever that means)!!!
> --
Ok, fair comment, but I bet the six year old isnt planning 50+Km in a
single ride.

If the OP has an interest in riding to get fast enough to sit in a
bunch or something like Around the bay (vic reference) then it would
certainly pay to get some objective advice.

A lot of the fit guides are aimed at racers, who have some fitness and
time logged doing the klms.

for a beginner, it is quite different. feeling comfortable and being
able to ride for long distances, at speed, for a long time is very
difficult. Add to that trying to look like a bike racer or in a
bunch.....well you get the idea.

going to get fitted, adjusting seat height, position, stem height.
length, shoes etc makes a huge difference. Everyone is different and
will change as they get fitter

I'm not even talking about different seats, stems or hbars.