Horner's team is riding his bikes.

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by John, Jun 21, 2004.

  1. John

    John Guest

    Did you know?

    I do not know the exact numbers. But I think...
    In Horners contract this year he is making like 60k.
    Not only that.

    But if he wants to send his team to the front in the olympic trials
    why not?
    I shit you not!! But not only does he get 60k, I heard he gets all the
    team bike and equipment at the end of the year also. How does that
    make you teammates feel?

    J
     
    Tags:


  2. Amit

    Amit Guest

    [email protected] (John) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Did you know?
    >
    > I do not know the exact numbers. But I think...
    > In Horners contract this year he is making like 60k.
    > Not only that.
    >
    > But if he wants to send his team to the front in the olympic trials
    > why not?
    > I shit you not!! But not only does he get 60k, I heard he gets all the
    > team bike and equipment at the end of the year also. How does that
    > make you teammates feel?


    How does this compare to Julich's or Leipheimer's contract ?

    Two guys who aren't arguably better.
     
  3. Ronde Champ

    Ronde Champ Guest

    [email protected] (John) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Did you know?
    >
    > I do not know the exact numbers. But I think...
    > In Horners contract this year he is making like 60k.
    > Not only that.
    >
    > But if he wants to send his team to the front in the olympic trials
    > why not?
    > I shit you not!! But not only does he get 60k, I heard he gets all the
    > team bike and equipment at the end of the year also. How does that
    > make you teammates feel?
    >
    > J


    Just for clarification- He (Horner) gets ALL the teams equipment. The
    pee-ons have to turn their rigs over to him. It's in the contract.
    That is his property at 12-31-04. I doubt he wants the chamois,
    though.

    Ronde Champ
     
  4. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    Amit <[email protected]> wrote:
    > How does this compare to Julich's or Leipheimer's contract ?


    > Two guys who aren't arguably better.


    As modest as Julich and Leipheimer's palmares are, they far outshine
    Horner's.

    Current rankings:
    65 Julich
    122 Liepheimer
    231 Horner

    Horner has never had a result in competition at a level that he
    would see in the Olympics.

    Bob Schwartz
    [email protected]
     
  5. Ronde Champ wrote:
    >
    > Just for clarification- He (Horner) gets ALL the teams equipment. The
    > pee-ons have to turn their rigs over to him. It's in the contract.
    > That is his property at 12-31-04. I doubt he wants the chamois,
    > though.
    >
    > Ronde Champ


    I heard the Blue Oyster Bar pays a handsome amount for used chamois.

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
  6. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Amit <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > How does this compare to Julich's or Leipheimer's contract ?

    >
    > > Two guys who aren't arguably better.

    >
    > As modest as Julich and Leipheimer's palmares are, they far outshine
    > Horner's.
    >
    > Current rankings:
    > 65 Julich
    > 122 Liepheimer
    > 231 Horner
    >
    > Horner has never had a result in competition at a level that he
    > would see in the Olympics.


    Come on, at least be honest about it - if Horner could head a team in Europe
    he'd be in contention for the max points. Chris just kills them all during
    the early season and also in the late season. But the only way he could have
    his head in a Euro race would be to put in his time and why should he be a
    pion when he can stay here and be a hero for almost the same income?
     
  7. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    Tom Kunich <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> Amit <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> > How does this compare to Julich's or Leipheimer's contract ?

    >>
    >> > Two guys who aren't arguably better.

    >>
    >> As modest as Julich and Leipheimer's palmares are, they far outshine
    >> Horner's.
    >>
    >> Current rankings:
    >> 65 Julich
    >> 122 Liepheimer
    >> 231 Horner
    >>
    >> Horner has never had a result in competition at a level that he
    >> would see in the Olympics.


    > Come on, at least be honest about it - if Horner could head a team in Europe
    > he'd be in contention for the max points. Chris just kills them all during
    > the early season and also in the late season. But the only way he could have
    > his head in a Euro race would be to put in his time and why should he be a
    > pion when he can stay here and be a hero for almost the same income?


    - Why would anyone hire a guy to head their team that rode in Europe
    for three years and washed out?

    - I understand and appreciate the differences between racing in
    Europe and the US. The Olympics are for people that desire to
    compete at the highest levels of their sport.

    Bob Schwartz
    [email protected]
     
  8. Amit

    Amit Guest

    Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Amit <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > How does this compare to Julich's or Leipheimer's contract ?

    >
    > > Two guys who aren't arguably better.

    >
    > As modest as Julich and Leipheimer's palmares are, they far outshine
    > Horner's.
    >
    > Current rankings:
    > 65 Julich
    > 122 Liepheimer
    > 231 Horner
    >
    > Horner has never had a result in competition at a level that he
    > would see in the Olympics.
    >


    All three rode the Worlds last year, only Horner was active in the race.

    Horner and Julich also went head to head at Georgia this year:

    Rome-Rome ITT

    1 Lance Armstrong (USA) 39.52
    2 Jens Voigt (Ger) at 0.22
    3 Chris Horner (USA) at 0.45
    4 Bobby Julich (USA) at 1.00
    7 Jason McCartney (USA) at 1.27

    Brasstown Bald

    2 Jens Voigt (Ger) CSC at 0.17
    3 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service/Berry Floor
    4 Chris Horner (USA) Webcor at 0.27
    5 Scott Moninger (USA) Health Net at 1.02
    6 Bobby Julich (USA) CSC at 1.08

    I can't see a clear case for Julich being better.
     
  9. warren

    warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Amit
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Amit <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > > How does this compare to Julich's or Leipheimer's contract ?

    > >
    > > > Two guys who aren't arguably better.

    > >
    > > As modest as Julich and Leipheimer's palmares are, they far outshine
    > > Horner's.
    > >
    > > Current rankings:
    > > 65 Julich
    > > 122 Liepheimer
    > > 231 Horner
    > >
    > > Horner has never had a result in competition at a level that he
    > > would see in the Olympics.
    > >

    >
    > All three rode the Worlds last year, only Horner was active in the race.
    >
    > Horner and Julich also went head to head at Georgia this year:
    >
    > Rome-Rome ITT
    >
    > 1 Lance Armstrong (USA) 39.52
    > 2 Jens Voigt (Ger) at 0.22
    > 3 Chris Horner (USA) at 0.45
    > 4 Bobby Julich (USA) at 1.00
    > 7 Jason McCartney (USA) at 1.27
    >
    > Brasstown Bald
    >
    > 2 Jens Voigt (Ger) CSC at 0.17
    > 3 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service/Berry Floor
    > 4 Chris Horner (USA) Webcor at 0.27
    > 5 Scott Moninger (USA) Health Net at 1.02
    > 6 Bobby Julich (USA) CSC at 1.08
    >
    > I can't see a clear case for Julich being better.


    Except that Julich cares alot less about his result in Georgia than he
    does in Switzerland and France and maybe the Olympics, and probably 5
    other races he'll do this season.

    -WG
     
  10. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    Amit <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >> Amit <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> > How does this compare to Julich's or Leipheimer's contract ?

    >>
    >> > Two guys who aren't arguably better.

    >>
    >> As modest as Julich and Leipheimer's palmares are, they far outshine
    >> Horner's.
    >>
    >> Current rankings:
    >> 65 Julich
    >> 122 Liepheimer
    >> 231 Horner
    >>
    >> Horner has never had a result in competition at a level that he
    >> would see in the Olympics.
    >>


    > All three rode the Worlds last year, only Horner was active in the race.


    > Horner and Julich also went head to head at Georgia this year:


    > Rome-Rome ITT


    > 1 Lance Armstrong (USA) 39.52
    > 2 Jens Voigt (Ger) at 0.22
    > 3 Chris Horner (USA) at 0.45
    > 4 Bobby Julich (USA) at 1.00
    > 7 Jason McCartney (USA) at 1.27


    > Brasstown Bald


    > 2 Jens Voigt (Ger) CSC at 0.17
    > 3 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service/Berry Floor
    > 4 Chris Horner (USA) Webcor at 0.27
    > 5 Scott Moninger (USA) Health Net at 1.02
    > 6 Bobby Julich (USA) CSC at 1.08


    > I can't see a clear case for Julich being better.


    The selection criteria were, in priority order:
    - The trials winner (Congratulations Jason McCartney)
    - Top 3 in Hamilton (no one got this one)
    - Top 5 GC in a Grand Tour (LANCE and Tyler)
    - Top 5 GC in an HC stage race (Julich and Hincapie)
    - There are a couple other criteria listed just in case

    Julich took 3rd (and Hincapie 5th) in Paris-Nice, a
    highly contested HC stage race. Georgia was 2.3.

    I like Horner. I understand the differences between
    racing in the US and racing in Europe. The downside of
    choosing to race in the US is that he spends little
    time in really hard races against the top levels of
    competition. And he has to roll the dice in a trials
    race to make the Olympic team.

    The guy has no record of success at Olympic level
    competition. Zero. None. In my mind this makes it
    hard to make the case that he should go.

    Bob Schwartz
    [email protected]
     
  11. karlwithak

    karlwithak Guest

    > >> Horner has never had a result in competition at a level that he
    > >> would see in the Olympics.
    > >>

    >
    > > All three rode the Worlds last year, only Horner was active in the race.

    >
    > > Horner and Julich also went head to head at Georgia this year:

    >
    > > Rome-Rome ITT

    >
    > > 1 Lance Armstrong (USA) 39.52
    > > 2 Jens Voigt (Ger) at 0.22
    > > 3 Chris Horner (USA) at 0.45
    > > 4 Bobby Julich (USA) at 1.00
    > > 7 Jason McCartney (USA) at 1.27

    >
    > > Brasstown Bald

    >
    > > 2 Jens Voigt (Ger) CSC at 0.17
    > > 3 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service/Berry Floor
    > > 4 Chris Horner (USA) Webcor at 0.27
    > > 5 Scott Moninger (USA) Health Net at 1.02
    > > 6 Bobby Julich (USA) CSC at 1.08

    >
    > > I can't see a clear case for Julich being better.

    >
    > The selection criteria were, in priority order:
    > - The trials winner (Congratulations Jason McCartney)
    > - Top 3 in Hamilton (no one got this one)
    > - Top 5 GC in a Grand Tour (LANCE and Tyler)
    > - Top 5 GC in an HC stage race (Julich and Hincapie)
    > - There are a couple other criteria listed just in case
    >
    > Julich took 3rd (and Hincapie 5th) in Paris-Nice, a
    > highly contested HC stage race. Georgia was 2.3.
    >
    > I like Horner. I understand the differences between
    > racing in the US and racing in Europe. The downside of
    > choosing to race in the US is that he spends little
    > time in really hard races against the top levels of
    > competition. And he has to roll the dice in a trials
    > race to make the Olympic team.
    >
    > The guy has no record of success at Olympic level
    > competition. Zero. None. In my mind this makes it
    > hard to make the case that he should go.
    >
    > Bob Schwartz
    > [email protected]


    Bob

    Did you watch worlds last year, Horner did not get the result but he
    was off the front solo with one to go. not bad when you look at the
    competition which think is just as good as an olympic field.

    Also SFGP had a pretty good line up last year and he won that. Plenty
    of dudes were there fron Europe

    K
     
  12. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    karlwithak <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Did you watch worlds last year, Horner did not get the result but he
    > was off the front solo with one to go. not bad when you look at the
    > competition which think is just as good as an olympic field.


    > Also SFGP had a pretty good line up last year and he won that. Plenty
    > of dudes were there fron Europe


    I was in Hamilton. Off the front before the end is meaningless until
    they add Unknown Distance races as a medal event. And the competition
    at Worlds is not as good as what we will see in the Olympics. Odd
    but true.

    The SFGP is a 1.3 category event. There were only 5 teams there that
    sent riders to any World Cup race, none of those teams had full squads,
    and a lot of the riders that did show up were on vacation.

    Horner has no record of success at Olympic level competition. He just
    doesn't. Much of that is due to choices he has made and I respect that.
    But there are 5 guys with better records and they are going to Athens.

    Bob Schwartz
    [email protected]
     
  13. kaiser

    kaiser Guest

    Who cares anymore.

    We either get a team of euro-based pros who are not in peak form
    because they are winding-down their seasons (and they could care less
    about the event anyway) or we get some guy who was in great shape 3
    months earlier on the day of the trials (plus some mediocre teammates
    who will probably beat him anyway).

    The decision to allow pros in the race has not only destroyed the
    Olympics, but in many respects has destroyed the US's ability to
    develop riders capable of making it as Euro pros down the road. In
    84, I looked forward to this event, and now I don't even bother to
    follow which riders will be riding it.

    Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Amit <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > >> Amit <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >> > How does this compare to Julich's or Leipheimer's contract ?

    >
    > >> > Two guys who aren't arguably better.
    > >>
    > >> As modest as Julich and Leipheimer's palmares are, they far outshine
    > >> Horner's.
    > >>
    > >> Current rankings:
    > >> 65 Julich
    > >> 122 Liepheimer
    > >> 231 Horner
    > >>
    > >> Horner has never had a result in competition at a level that he
    > >> would see in the Olympics.
    > >>

    >
    > > All three rode the Worlds last year, only Horner was active in the race.

    >
    > > Horner and Julich also went head to head at Georgia this year:

    >
    > > Rome-Rome ITT

    >
    > > 1 Lance Armstrong (USA) 39.52
    > > 2 Jens Voigt (Ger) at 0.22
    > > 3 Chris Horner (USA) at 0.45
    > > 4 Bobby Julich (USA) at 1.00
    > > 7 Jason McCartney (USA) at 1.27

    >
    > > Brasstown Bald

    >
    > > 2 Jens Voigt (Ger) CSC at 0.17
    > > 3 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service/Berry Floor
    > > 4 Chris Horner (USA) Webcor at 0.27
    > > 5 Scott Moninger (USA) Health Net at 1.02
    > > 6 Bobby Julich (USA) CSC at 1.08

    >
    > > I can't see a clear case for Julich being better.

    >
    > The selection criteria were, in priority order:
    > - The trials winner (Congratulations Jason McCartney)
    > - Top 3 in Hamilton (no one got this one)
    > - Top 5 GC in a Grand Tour (LANCE and Tyler)
    > - Top 5 GC in an HC stage race (Julich and Hincapie)
    > - There are a couple other criteria listed just in case
    >
    > Julich took 3rd (and Hincapie 5th) in Paris-Nice, a
    > highly contested HC stage race. Georgia was 2.3.
    >
    > I like Horner. I understand the differences between
    > racing in the US and racing in Europe. The downside of
    > choosing to race in the US is that he spends little
    > time in really hard races against the top levels of
    > competition. And he has to roll the dice in a trials
    > race to make the Olympic team.
    >
    > The guy has no record of success at Olympic level
    > competition. Zero. None. In my mind this makes it
    > hard to make the case that he should go.
    >
    > Bob Schwartz
    > [email protected]
     
  14. Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote:

    > The selection criteria were, in priority order:
    > - The trials winner (Congratulations Jason McCartney)
    > - Top 3 in Hamilton (no one got this one)
    > - Top 5 GC in a Grand Tour (LANCE and Tyler)
    > - Top 5 GC in an HC stage race (Julich and Hincapie)
    > - There are a couple other criteria listed just in case


    > Julich took 3rd (and Hincapie 5th) in Paris-Nice, a
    > highly contested HC stage race. Georgia was 2.3.


    > I like Horner. I understand the differences between
    > racing in the US and racing in Europe. The downside of
    > choosing to race in the US is that he spends little
    > time in really hard races against the top levels of
    > competition. And he has to roll the dice in a trials
    > race to make the Olympic team.


    Seems to me like the guy who potentially has a cause for
    complaint is Fred Rodriguez, who had to ride the selection
    race sans team.

    There was one more selection criterion - top 5 in a
    World Cup or 1.HC race - which Rodriguez would have had
    a better shot at, but didn't make. Arguably that, or
    his stage win at the Giro, would be more like the Olympic
    race than placing top 5 in a 2.HC race.
     
  15. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Benjamin Weiner <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    > Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > The selection criteria were, in priority order:
    > > - The trials winner (Congratulations Jason McCartney)
    > > - Top 3 in Hamilton (no one got this one)
    > > - Top 5 GC in a Grand Tour (LANCE and Tyler)
    > > - Top 5 GC in an HC stage race (Julich and Hincapie)
    > > - There are a couple other criteria listed just in case

    >
    > > Julich took 3rd (and Hincapie 5th) in Paris-Nice, a
    > > highly contested HC stage race. Georgia was 2.3.

    >
    > > I like Horner. I understand the differences between
    > > racing in the US and racing in Europe. The downside of
    > > choosing to race in the US is that he spends little
    > > time in really hard races against the top levels of
    > > competition. And he has to roll the dice in a trials
    > > race to make the Olympic team.

    >
    > Seems to me like the guy who potentially has a cause for
    > complaint is Fred Rodriguez, who had to ride the selection
    > race sans team.
    >
    > There was one more selection criterion - top 5 in a
    > World Cup or 1.HC race - which Rodriguez would have had
    > a better shot at, but didn't make. Arguably that, or
    > his stage win at the Giro, would be more like the Olympic
    > race than placing top 5 in a 2.HC race.


    I completely agree that Rodriguez needs serious consideration for the
    Olympic RR. I think his win and consistent high finishes in the Giro ought
    to be worth something to the selectors. The course sounds like it would
    suit him pretty well. One question: is LANCE even going to ride the RR?

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    "The fickleness of fame and fortunes's caprice
    Together changed the life of Mason Reese"
    Alice Donut

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  16. On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 05:15:50 GMT, Howard Kveck wrote:
    >In article <[email protected]>, Benjamin Weiner wrote:
    >> Seems to me like the guy who potentially has a cause for
    >> complaint is Fred Rodriguez, who had to ride the selection
    >> race sans team.
    >>
    >> There was one more selection criterion - top 5 in a
    >> World Cup or 1.HC race - which Rodriguez would have had
    >> a better shot at, but didn't make. Arguably that, or
    >> his stage win at the Giro, would be more like the Olympic
    >> race than placing top 5 in a 2.HC race.

    >
    > I completely agree that Rodriguez needs serious consideration for the
    >Olympic RR. I think his win and consistent high finishes in the Giro ought
    >to be worth something to the selectors. The course sounds like it would
    >suit him pretty well.


    Ideally for 5 places, there should be 2 or 3 qualification places and 2
    or 3 hand-picked by the national team coach. That way it can be a
    balanced team, with for example a few helpers or a guy like Rodriguez
    who didn't qualify directly.
     
  17. Ilan Vardi

    Ilan Vardi Guest

  18. people kill me.. no damned respect at all for the good riders... no
    understanding of cycling and the differences in the levels...

    olympic selection or not everyone who races against horner knows that he is the
    real deal and is as capable of having results at the "olympic level" (whatever
    that is) as anyone else... even the guys who have raced both in europe and the
    US agree that horner has the stuff... he wont ever get the chance to go back
    under the circumstances that he would like most likely... and so he wont get
    the chance to show it... sorry for him i guess...

    anyway, no one is ever garanteed anything on the start line of any race.. not
    even lance... and in one day races ANYTHING can happen and on any given day
    anyone can be beaten... so, any one of the riders at the start has better than
    a "prayer in hell" to win a big race if he is able to play his cards (or
    card)...

    no respect... no understanding... are you guys bike racers or what?
     
  19. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    Ilan Vardi <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...


    >> >>
    >> >> Horner has never had a result in competition at a level that he
    >> >> would see in the Olympics.


    >> Europe and the US. The Olympics are for people that desire to
    >> compete at the highest levels of their sport.


    > http://www.nyt.co.uk/eddiethe.htm


    That's appropriate. There are a lot more sports with qualification standards
    now, although I think most of the credit for that goes to the Jamaican
    bobsledders. Eddie can watch the games with the US Kilo and Pursuit riders.

    Bob Schwartz
    [email protected]
     
  20. "erik saunders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > people kill me.. no damned respect at all for the good riders... no
    > understanding of cycling and the differences in the levels...
    >
    > olympic selection or not everyone who races against horner knows that he

    is the
    > real deal and is as capable of having results at the "olympic level"

    (whatever
    > that is) as anyone else... even the guys who have raced both in europe and

    the
    > US agree that horner has the stuff... he wont ever get the chance to go

    back
    > under the circumstances that he would like most likely... and so he wont

    get
    > the chance to show it... sorry for him i guess...
    >
    > anyway, no one is ever garanteed anything on the start line of any race..

    not
    > even lance... and in one day races ANYTHING can happen and on any given

    day
    > anyone can be beaten... so, any one of the riders at the start has better

    than
    > a "prayer in hell" to win a big race if he is able to play his cards (or
    > card)...
    >
    > no respect... no understanding... are you guys bike racers or what?


    Erik,

    I haven't really raced in a few years, and ridden against Horner for a few
    years before that so I can't say what his abilities are at this point.
    However, in what capacity would you see him capable of riding for a tier I
    team? Tier II team?

    Competing here in the US it's extremely difficult to access his abilities,
    as the depth of competition is not nearly what it would be in Europe. There
    are dipshits on this NG complaining that _his teammates_ work full time
    jobs. You won't find that in the euro peloton.
     
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