How come no drug busts in four years of Tour of California?

[Leafer]

As we know, having balls is not a prerequisite to using dope as a means to cycling superstardom. In the meantime, I think it's funny that you're suggesting because I don't use EPO, this somehow disqualifies me from preferring that others be permitted to do so. For what I want to accomplish in life, doping will not help. So what's your point?

I assume you ride, and I assume that, like most of us, you ride for personal enjoyment and entertainment, and I assume that, like most of us, you'd like it even better if you could ride longer and faster. So what's stopping you from popping some EPO and pumping your crit up to 60 or so and then slapping on some test gels to recover afterward and thus enjoying riding even more, if doping is no big deal and it's important to your ability to be entertained?

Finally, this **** about doping killing cyclists, etc. etc. yada yada is nonsense. Abusing the substances is what kills people...Doping, when done properly under the supervision of people who know what they are doing, maximizes performance no different than proper training and nutrition.

********. Any drug or medical procedure that is used or applied in a way it was not designed or intended is by its very nature "abuse".

 

[IH8LANCE]

I assume you ride, and I assume that, like most of us, you ride for personal enjoyment and entertainment, and I assume that, like most of us, you'd like it even better if you could ride longer and faster. So what's stopping you from popping some EPO and pumping your crit up to 60 or so and then slapping on some test gels to recover afterward and thus enjoying riding even more, if doping is no big deal and it's important to your ability to be entertained?

For the same reason I watch pornography without getting the urge to take part in a scene in an abandoned warehouse with a doublejointed Swedish MILF, a midget and a shetland pony. There's a difference between what one might enjoy watching as opposed to doing.

In the meantime, the question is a bit silly, in that professional riders don't dope to go faster. They dope to get paid more money. I'm not in that situation, nor would I be no matter how much I doped.

Utter ********.

Says you. More cyclists die from riding fast and running into things than from doping. Riding fast should be banned along with EPO, don't you think?

 

[IH8LANCE]

********. Any drug or medical procedure that is used or applied in a way it was not designed or intended is by its very nature "abuse".

What does that mean? Steroids, EPO, and the like are "designed" to enhance the performance of the human body. If those uses include enhancement of performance by an otherwise healthy human being, who are you to say this is abusive, if all it does is make that person go faster?

Aspirin was originally developed as a pain reliever and anti-infllammatory. It wasn't "designed" or "intended" as a blood thinner. Are you going to tell millions of heart patients that they're abusing it as a preventative agent against pericarditis and coronary artery disease?

 

[helmutRoole2]

I assume you ride, and I assume that, like most of us, you ride for personal enjoyment and entertainment, and I assume that, like most of us, you'd like it even better if you could ride longer and faster. So what's stopping you from popping some EPO and pumping your crit up to 60 or so and then slapping on some test gels to recover afterward and thus enjoying riding even more, if doping is no big deal and it's important to your ability to be entertained?

Hey, it is fun. Having used peds, I can definitely say it enhances the experience. That's a component to why athletes continue to dope. Under propper supervision... even without, it's not that dangerous. Once you get into EPO, of which I've never dabbled, it can be dangerous, but still, it's basically cookbook. If it were that dangerous we'd be seeing a lot more ****ed up and dead cyclists. Not saying they're not out there, but not in the numbers you'd expect to see considering the hundreds of thousands of doped athletes competiting as cyclists. I dare say the number of casualties from the doping wars isn't that much higher than what you'd see in the general population.

Couple years back I saw footage of the 1999 USP squad at the Tour. They were at their hotel. I can't remember what the stage was, but suffice to say, being a Tour stage, it wasn't a walk in the park. And yet, there they were: Tyler Hamilton, Andreu, couple others, all mugging, doing their best Mr. Universe inpersonation for the camera. They were giddy. Giddy after 100+ miles in the saddle having done something similar the day before and the day before that and "preparing" to do the same the next day.

Giddy!

Tell me you don't want some of what they're having.

 

[Leafer]

What does that mean? Steroids, EPO, and the like are "designed" to enhance the performance of the human body. If those uses include enhancement of performance by an otherwise healthy human being, who are you to say this is abusive, if all it does is make that person go faster?

No one knows if "all it does is make that person go faster", because no one has ever tested the effects of the use of those products when used under circumstances for which they were not intended. Does sustained use of steroids or EPO in an otherwise healthy person lead to kidney or liver damage? Cardiac problems? Cancer? Fertility? No one knows, cause no long-term studies exist for when steroids or EPO or HGH or whatever is used in that way (long-term, that is). There's a reason that it's illegal to traffick in or buy steroids (or at least many types of steroids anyway) with the intent of using them as peds. There's a reason it's illegal to use any medical product as a ped at all, in many countries. Simply, no one really knows what the long-term health impacts are when those products are used as peds. Might be none; might be substantial.

Aspirin was originally developed as a pain reliever and anti-infllammatory. It wasn't "designed" or "intended" as a blood thinner. Are you going to tell millions of heart patients that they're abusing it as a preventative agent against pericarditis and coronary artery disease?

And aspirin had to be put through clinical testing before it could be approved for use (and prescription) as a blood thinner in addition to a pain reliever. So until the same testing is done for EPO or steroids or whatever, ie for use as a ped in healthy individuals in addition to its original intent, then yeah, it's an abuse of that product, regardless of "supervision" or not.

Tell you what: go tell your doctor that there's nothing wrong with you but you want some EPO cause you heard that it makes you ride a little faster. See how far you get with that.

 

[IH8LANCE]

No one knows if "all it does is make that person go faster", because no one has ever tested the effects of the use of those products when used under circumstances for which they were not intended. Does sustained use of steroids or EPO in an otherwise healthy person lead to kidney or liver damage? Cardiac problems? Cancer? Fertility? No one knows, cause no long-term studies exist for when steroids or EPO or HGH or whatever is used in that way (long-term, that is). There's a reason that it's illegal to traffick in or buy steroids (or at least many types of steroids anyway) with the intent of using them as peds. There's a reason it's illegal to use any medical product as a ped at all, in many countries. Simply, no one really knows what the long-term health impacts are when those products are used as peds. Might be none; might be substantial.

Given the extensive guerilla testing that is being done at each professional cycling event, there is a mountain of evidence that the substances, when used judiciously, are not harmful. Let 'em dope.

And aspirin had to be put through clinical testing before it could be approved for use (and prescription) as a blood thinner in addition to a pain reliever. So until the same testing is done for EPO or steroids or whatever, ie for use as a ped in healthy individuals in addition to its original intent, then yeah, it's an abuse of that product, regardless of "supervision" or not.

Semantics. Cuddle up with the label if you want, but don't stand in the way of the men who are earning a great living "abusing" those substances.

Tell you what: go tell your doctor that there's nothing wrong with you but you want some EPO cause you heard that it makes you ride a little faster. See how far you get with that.

You seem to be obsessed with the idea of me doping. This isn't about me. I don't earn a salary riding a bike. I have no desire to go any faster than a little caffeine can take me. I don't much care if my fellow cyclists can pip me at the line when we reach the bar at the end of our rides.

The drugs in question are illegal, therefore using them constitutes "abuse" -- that's your story. Whatever. You are the envy of your Boy Scout troop. Congrats.

 

[Leafer]

Given the extensive guerilla testing that is being done at each professional cycling event, there is a mountain of evidence that the substances, when used judiciously, are not harmful.

Sure. Right.

Semantics. Cuddle up with the label if you want, but don't stand in the way of the men who are earning a great living "abusing" those substances.

What about the men who would like to make a great living without having to abuse those substances? Oh right, they're chickenshit.

You seem to be obsessed with the idea of me doping. This isn't about me. I don't earn a salary riding a bike. I have no desire to go any faster than a little caffeine can take me. I don't much care if my fellow cyclists can pip me at the line when we reach the bar at the end of our rides.

Chickenshit.

The drugs in question are illegal, therefore using them constitutes "abuse"

er, no. Here, maybe this will help:

abuse (v): 1. to use wrongly or improperly; misuse

 

[Flyer]

Hey, it is fun. Having used peds, I can definitely say it enhances the experience. That's a component to why athletes continue to dope. Under propper supervision... even without, it's not that dangerous. Once you get into EPO, of which I've never dabbled, it can be dangerous, but still, it's basically cookbook. If it were that dangerous we'd be seeing a lot more ****ed up and dead cyclists. Not saying they're not out there, but not in the numbers you'd expect to see considering the hundreds of thousands of doped athletes competiting as cyclists. I dare say the number of casualties from the doping wars isn't that much higher than what you'd see in the general population.

Couple years back I saw footage of the 1999 USP squad at the Tour. They were at their hotel. I can't remember what the stage was, but suffice to say, being a Tour stage, it wasn't a walk in the park. And yet, there they were: Tyler Hamilton, Andreu, couple others, all mugging, doing their best Mr. Universe inpersonation for the camera. They were giddy. Giddy after 100+ miles in the saddle having done something similar the day before and the day before that and "preparing" to do the same the next day.

Giddy!

Tell me you don't want some of what they're having.

weerr

 

[IH8LANCE]

What about the men who would like to make a great living without having to abuse those substances? Oh right, they're chickenshit.

If you're not willing to do what it takes to be the best, then right, they're chickenshit. They are better off getting a desk job somewhere and watching on television with the rest of us. To be the best requires sacrifice -- and that includes keeping up with those who are willing to "abuse" their bodies to get there.

abuse (v): 1. to use wrongly or improperly; misuse

The dopers aren't using the substances improperly. They use them to get faster to earn more money, and it seems they are doing a very good job at that. Meanwhile, none of them are dropping dead these days. I understand your rancor -- if doping were legalized, you'd have no way to rationalize things when your favorite rider loses to someone else. The doping label is just a crutch for haters like you. Let it go. Let 'em dope. Enjoy the spectacle. It's just entertainment.

 

[Leafer]

The dopers aren't using the substances improperly. They use them to get faster to earn more money, and it seems they are doing a very good job at that. Meanwhile, none of them are dropping dead these days. I understand your rancor -- if doping were legalized, you'd have no way to rationalize things when your favorite rider loses to someone else. The doping label is just a crutch for haters like you. Let it go. Let 'em dope. Enjoy the spectacle. It's just entertainment.

I guess the difference just comes down to the fact that I don't expect other people to put their health at risk just cause I'm not sufficiently entertained, nor whine about how bored I am when they don't.

And btw, yes, dopers are using the substances improperly. That's the whole point. And yes, that is drug abuse. Someone who is addicted to painkillers probably isn't going to die from popping a pill or three every day, but it is stilled called drug abuse for a reason.

 

[IH8LANCE]

I guess the difference just comes down to the fact that I don't expect other people to put their health at risk just cause I'm not sufficiently entertained, nor whine about how bored I am when they don't.

I don't expect them to do anything. I want to give them more options for success, while you want to keep them under the thumbs of the organizers and agencies, who have done more to harm the sport than any doping doctor.

But by all means, have fun watching the next doping scandal unfold, where some poor schmuck who is doing no different than any of the rest of them gets crucified based on rumor and innuendo or an arbitrary test result. I guess I can't fault you for your perverse entertainment preferences. We all have issues.

 

[Flyer]

Hey, it is fun. Having used peds, I can definitely say it enhances the experience. That's a component to why athletes continue to dope. Under propper supervision... even without, it's not that dangerous. Once you get into EPO, of which I've never dabbled, it can be dangerous, but still, it's basically cookbook. If it were that dangerous we'd be seeing a lot more ****ed up and dead cyclists. Not saying they're not out there, but not in the numbers you'd expect to see considering the hundreds of thousands of doped athletes competiting as cyclists. I dare say the number of casualties from the doping wars isn't that much higher than what you'd see in the general population.

Couple years back I saw footage of the 1999 USP squad at the Tour. They were at their hotel. I can't remember what the stage was, but suffice to say, being a Tour stage, it wasn't a walk in the park. And yet, there they were: Tyler Hamilton, Andreu, couple others, all mugging, doing their best Mr. Universe inpersonation for the camera. They were giddy. Giddy after 100+ miles in the saddle having done something similar the day before and the day before that and "preparing" to do the same the next day.

Giddy!

Tell me you don't want some of what they're having.

eeeerr

 

[Leafer]

I guess I can't fault you for your perverse entertainment preferences.

Right back at ya. Course, my entertainment preferences don't normally include drug abuse and death, which probably makes yours a wee bit more perverse. But hey, semantics.

 

[Bro Deal]

Yes, the goold old Tour of California, the race that took samples during its first edition but never bothered to test them. Can we really trust them to have done any better in subsequent races, especially when they rolled out the red cart for an unrepentent doper like Armstrong ?

 

[Flyer]

eeeerr

ssssdd

 

[slovakguy]

anti-flyer bump

 

[obxbes]

A pitcher for the Philadelphia Phillies has been suspended for 50 games for using an over the counter supplement purchased at GNC. Costing him over 1 million dollars in salary. What a joke when you have Bonds, Clemens, Mcguire and Rodriquez using hard core peds. I am glad american baseball is doing great things in the anti-doping war. Lucky world class soccer doesn't have any credible testing.

I don't expect them to do anything. I want to give them more options for success, while you want to keep them under the thumbs of the organizers and agencies, who have done more to harm the sport than any doping doctor.

But by all means, have fun watching the next doping scandal unfold, where some poor schmuck who is doing no different than any of the rest of them gets crucified based on rumor and innuendo or an arbitrary test result. I guess I can't fault you for your perverse entertainment preferences. We all have issues.

 

[IH8LANCE]

Right back at ya. Course, my entertainment preferences don't normally include drug abuse and death, which probably makes yours a wee bit more perverse. But hey, semantics.

And besides that, you're getting much more entertainment value these days. Seems no matter how much I wish it, none of them are keeling over dead.

On the other hand, they're all still doping, so I've got that going for me.

 

[Leafer]

On the other hand, they're all still doping, so I've got that going for me.

Which reminds me, I still don't get why you're not taking peds. Seems to me they'd be greatly beneficial even for everyday life, and since they're completely harmless, I can't understand why you aren't using them. I'd imagine your daily productivity at work would go way up, for eg, and that's pretty much analogous to why athletes take peds, right? To maximize daily productivity? And if it's as safe as you say it is, then there's no downside at all. So why you aren't shooting EPO or at the very least slapping a testosterone gel patch on your balls every night? I don't get it.

Now me, I happen to think that there's a considerable health risk associated with abusing drugs, so that's my excuse for not using them. But you don't really have that excuse, so I have to assume that despite all the big talk you're really just chickenshit.

 

[IH8LANCE]

Which reminds me, I still don't get why you're not taking peds. Seems to me they'd be greatly beneficial even for everyday life, and since they're completely harmless, I can't understand why you aren't using them.
I'd imagine your daily productivity at work would go way up, for eg, and that's pretty much analogous to why athletes take peds, right? To maximize daily productivity?

You're very silly. No one takes PEDs to maximize their "daily productivity at work", unless they happen to be professional athletes. And they're not taking them to go faster; they are taking them to make more money. In my profession, there would be no such correlation.

And if it's as safe as you say it is, then there's no downside at all.

You think PEDs grow on trees? That stuff is expensive.

So why you aren't shooting EPO or at the very least slapping a testosterone gel patch on your balls every night? I don't get it.

That's because you're an obtuse thinker. Broaden your mind.

Now me, I happen to think that there's a considerable health risk associated with abusing drugs, so that's my excuse for not using them.

You need an excuse? What about just making a choice? And that's the point. You should be able to make that choice. All of us should. Assess the risks and benefits, and act accordingly.

But you don't really have that excuse, so I have to assume that despite all the big talk you're really just chickenshit.

Either that, or just pragmatic.

Let 'em dope.