How did Lance beat the drug tests?

[micron]

The initial samples were not tested for EPO because the EPO test did not exist at that time. When the B samples were tested for EPO they came back positive. A doper using a product there is no test for, imagine that.


********. The EPO test detects exogonous EPO and it only has a detection window of roughly three days. From Armstrong's test results we can see that he injected EPO three times for the 1999 Tour. Once before the prologue and twice during the race. The test results show how the levels fall off, resulting in two days of positives following injection and levels that are just below the threshold for being positive after that time.

And don't forget it was Armstrong himself who authorised the release of the codes that allowed the samples to be matched to him in the first place - oh, such sweet irony.

As for the EPO as part of cancer treatment argument - ever heard of a TUE - that's a medical exemption certificate that basically gives a rider carte blanche to use anything he likes. Funny, then, that when asked - in 1999 - whether he had TUEs for testosterone and EPO Armstrong replied firmly in the negative...

 

[whiteboytrash]

Wow... blew me away. Great post. Couldn't have put it better myself. You might want to add that cyclists when caught either by positive tests or by border guards have blamed their sick grandmothers, dying dogs, twin brothers that never existed, handling errors and cheating wives... its never them but right you say we should give them the letter of the law to protect the innocence ! - Filthy cheats the lot of them they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. Do we really think Ivan Basso gave up the juice this time around ? Come on ? He told us that he doesn’t even know Fuentes and all of a sudden he withdraws from his team the races he loves at the prospect of a DNA test ! Do you realize he was prepared to ride and lie and have us all believe that he was hard done by ? Put your hand up if you believed him – if your hands up go outside and sit in the corner because you’re stupid. Do you think Lance Armstrong would give up 12 million a year to be clean ? Do you think he could beat a blood doped Ullrich and Basso and be clean ? I don’t really care but those who pay his bills by buying his books, his DVD’s I don’t care. If you want to make him rich go for it….. I just think there are better things to give money to.

Great answer. I might even use part of it on a Criminal Procedure exam. One problem here, though. Cycling doesn't have to follow the 5th Amendment to the American Constitution. It's a sport, a sport that has been completely torn apart by cheating. Riding in the peloton is not a right, it's a privilege, so there isn't even a good analogy to due process rights. WADA isn't putting people in jail, it is trying to create a fair sport that everyone can enjoy and sponsors can feel safe dropping money in. To many LA supporters, the man always comes before the sport and they feel fine tarnishing the reputations of labs, teammates, former Disco/USPS staff, WADA, UCI, ASO, and anyone else who even hints that their man didn't shoot straight. Weird, ehh? Well, that's the cult of LA and that's why a lot of people here, me included, pick on LA, cuz, well, give us a break, already.

More than a few LA defenders have made point that it is unfair to presume that someone dopes in cycling just because they win. Now with Lance, there are plenty of reasons to assume that he was a big lying cheater other than the fact that he won a lot. LA is gone now, so it doesn't really matter. But is it fair to assumer that anyone who wins is doping? Let me put it this way: How could you possibly assume otherwise? About half the pro-peloton -- although we don't know who we do know that there was blood, HGH, steroids, and EPO a plenty and over 100 names -- is connected to Fuentes. There are at least two and probably several other Doctors known to have questionable ethics and associations with teams. The strong presumption is that the majority of the peloton is cheating. Now, anyone can have a good day, make the right break, and make a smart move to grab a win. But to believe that someone can win without doping, you have to assume that this can be done with a 10-20% deficit against a doping rider. There are differences in people's strength, but at the pro-level, not like that. I would guess it can be done now and then, but not often.

Bottom line is this. Vino won the Vuelta last year. So far he hasn't been linked to Puerto. Do I think he is a big doper? Hell yeah. He beat at least one rider linked to Fuentes, Valverde. What about Millar? He won a Vuelta TT last year. I like the guy. He served his time and was more or less straight forward about things. But winning a GT TT against a pack full of dopers? Well, I'm not sure I buy it.

The point here is not that I am a cynical jerk, although I am. It's that cycling brought this on itself. We don't have to afford these guys happy fun American Constitutional rights. We don't have to believe in their innate goodness. Because most of them aren't good.

 

[jcjordan]

LA complained against the lab. The independent panel found that the lab had egregious violations of WADA's own procedures and requirements as to how samples should be tested.

As indicated by the independent panel, the samples can't even be demonstrated pursuant to established procedures to be LA's.

ThankM saved me having to point it out; also the Australian Drug Agency has also lodged a compliant over the wrongful accusations made againdt Ian Thorpe.

Considering that the lab is currently having it's accreditation being looked at know, even though it's meant to
be a normal inspection, so near allthese complaints does make you think.

I dought we will hear anything during the Floyd case as a finding that the lab is anything less then perfect will play riht into there hands which would be a travesty for the sport. What we need is a result that says either he doped or the tests were completely wrong. Any getting off on a technicality will always leave everyone wondering if he did or did not dope.

 

[patch70]

ThankM saved me having to point it out; also the Australian Drug Agency has also lodged a compliant over the wrongful accusations made againdt Ian Thorpe.

Considering that the lab is currently having it's accreditation being looked at know, even though it's meant to
be a normal inspection, so near allthese complaints does make you think.

I dought we will hear anything during the Floyd case as a finding that the lab is anything less then perfect will play riht into there hands which would be a travesty for the sport. What we need is a result that says either he doped or the tests were completely wrong. Any getting off on a technicality will always leave everyone wondering if he did or did not dope.

The reaction in Australia to the Ian Thorpe thing was ridiculous. Very similar to the Lance/Floyd reactions in the USA. "He can't possibly be guilty, he's one of us. Only foreigners dope!". Thorpie is worth big money, even post retirement, so of course the local swimming authority are going to do everything to get him to appear innocent.

If it had been Michael Phelps accused of doping instead of Thorpie, all the Aussie media would have said "Well, lots of gold medals, lots of world records, very suspicious".

All this smoke and mirrors about labs and unreliability of tests etc is a joke. Pretty much all the top athletes in most sports where there is money to be made (obviously including cycling and swimming) are cheating. But because everyone else is too, they don't see themselves as cheating. And if they are busted because they screwed up a dose (like Floyd) or because a test is introduced much later (like Lance), they will still insist that they are the innocent victim and play the public for fools, which in most cases is true.

 

[whiteboytrash]

..also swimming Australia sat on the positive results for 8 months. It wasn't until l'Equipe printed the story did they react.... if you're looking for a conspiracy look no further than your national federation not the lab.

ThankM saved me having to point it out; also the Australian Drug Agency has also lodged a compliant over the wrongful accusations made againdt Ian Thorpe.

Considering that the lab is currently having it's accreditation being looked at know, even though it's meant to
be a normal inspection, so near allthese complaints does make you think.

I dought we will hear anything during the Floyd case as a finding that the lab is anything less then perfect will play riht into there hands which would be a travesty for the sport. What we need is a result that says either he doped or the tests were completely wrong. Any getting off on a technicality will always leave everyone wondering if he did or did not dope.

 

[poulidor]

And don't forget it was Armstrong himself who authorised the release of the codes that allowed the samples to be matched to him in the first place - oh, such sweet irony.

To illustrate your point. I like this cartoon.

 

[jcjordan]

..also swimming Australia sat on the positive results for 8 months. It wasn't until l'Equipe printed the story did they react.... if you're looking for a conspiracy look no further than your national federation not the lab.

As I understand it the Australian Drug Agency did not sit on it, they decided that the test did not meet the criteria for a positive result and were waiting on further tests to see if anything came up and when nothing did the closed the case. At which point the paper came out with the story, but not the whole story.

 

[whiteboytrash]

As I understand it the Australian Drug Agency did not sit on it, they decided that the test did not meet the criteria for a positive result and were waiting on further tests to see if anything came up and when nothing did the closed the case. At which point the paper came out with the story, but not the whole story.

...did they mention he was gay as well ?

 

[jcjordan]

...did they mention he was gay as well ?

cant remember, why does that make a difference?

 

[whiteboytrash]

As I understand it the Australian Drug Agency did not sit on it, they decided that the test did not meet the criteria for a positive result and were waiting on further tests to see if anything came up and when nothing did the closed the case. At which point the paper came out with the story, but not the whole story.

Not the whole story ? What like the governing body FINA had to take the Australian drug agency to CAS to get them to open an investigation ?

 

[whiteboytrash]

cant remember, why does that make a difference?

Well if sporting drug usage was a crime in Australia like it is in Italy then Thorpy would have a hell of time in jail with Ben Dover....

 

[pukka]

Do you guys have a positivity in your lives, or is it all you can do to waste yours and others time, with your vitrious diatribe.

Go grab a life and lose the tall poppy syndrome

 

[whiteboytrash]

Do you guys have a positivity in your lives, or is it all you can do to waste yours and others time, with your vitrious diatribe.

Go grab a life and lose the tall poppy syndrome

Fighting words for post 9..... do you have 'a' positivity in your life ? what say you go fark yourself ? what say you go back to your basement and masturbate over your Armstrong posters ? There we go all done. That’s my ‘a’ negativity.

 

[House]

Pretty classy post from someone spending his life obsessing over his hatred for a retired rider.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Pretty classy post from someone spending his life obsessing over his hatred for a retired rider.

Hello... you again ? bit bored ? Taken all the Basso posters off your bedroom wall yet ?

 

[thebluetrain]

Well if sporting drug usage was a crime in Australia like it is in Italy then Thorpy would have a hell of time in jail with Ben Dover....

LOL, no way Ian would become someones ***** in jail, not with a name like "the thorpedo".
Any way if he did get jail time it would be in "white collar prison" not "pound me in the ass prison."

 

[House]

Hello... you again ? bit bored ? Taken all the Basso posters off your bedroom wall yet ?

Ah yes, another quality response from Mr. Obssesed.

 

[Bro Deal]

Ah yes, another quality response from Mr. Obssesed.

Aren't you supposed to be over at the DP forums telling everyone how Basso was framed by the French? You and O.J. might be able to help Basso out in his search for the real dopers.

 

[House]

Aren't you supposed to be over at the DP forums telling everyone how Basso was framed by the French? You and O.J. might be able to help Basso out in his search for the real dopers.

Ah, yes another one of the adle minded obssesed. For someone who posts here you sure spend a lot of time talking about what's posted over there. Of course you are, apprently, not intelligent enough to understand the intelligent discussions over there if you think I have said anything about Basso's innocence or any frame up by the French.

I think this post really applies to you:
http://www.cyclingforums.com/showpost.php?p=3236235&postcount=54

 

[musette]

As everybody knows, any assertions that LA tested positive are just fanciful dreams in the minds of LA-haters. It's undisputed, at least in the eyes of those who are informed about legal matters, that DC/USPS has a spotless record of the teams' cyclists not have been proven by any governmental authority or cycling regulatory body to have doped in twelve years.