How Do These Airborne Specs Look?



R

RonSonic

Guest
On 22 Jul 2005 22:11:06 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Hank Wirtz wrote:
>>
>>
>> You're paying attention to a 4-oz difference in weight, then
>> contemplating putting on a 4-lb saddle? (FWIW, my sister-in-law has that
>> saddle, and I guess she likes it, but it weighs more than her rear
>> wheel).

>
>Holy Hell's Angels, that weighs more than my ass! Thanks for the
>info...hmm...wonder if there are any ergonomic seats that are very
>light?


"In some distant land it is possible that bicycle seats are made out of rainbow
and stuffed with cloud. In this world it's easier to just get used to something
hard."

Heres the deal, upright position puts more weight on your ass it also forces
your legs around the saddle at an awkward angle unless you set the seat too low.
Which puts yet more weight on your ass and kills your pedalling efficiency.
That big sofa-like saddle will require that you set it low.

There is no reason for a saddle like that to be light. It simply cannot be fast
anyway.

>> Low weight does not equal performance, except maybe psychologically. If
>> you want to shave grams, pee before you ride. That's about the
>> difference we're talking here. Performance is going to come from having
>> a good-fitting bike that you ride a whole bunch.

>
>LOL -- of course!
>
>But the fit being equal, how do the specs read to you? I don't know
>why they bother with Shimano this and Bontrager that...do even the
>"pros" know what it means?? Reads like mattress advertising....


Fit is never equal. As for all the brand names and model numbers, aren't you the
guy whining that the components might not be adequate to your demands. If you
want to be a weenie and fuss about that sort of thing, then get weenie about it
and fuss about that sort of thing.

>I'm a fast rider...I can keep up with my messenger friend who races on
>the weekends (though we've never actually raced per se, given our very
>different bikes). I say this so that you know I'm not stuck on
>components like they were magic or something. In this particular case,
>my natural inclination is to get the flat-bar bike, but it seems like
>the componentry on the drop-bar may be substantially better.


Better for WHAT? For WHOM? How good do the parts have to be. Shimano LX is
perfectly adequate for pounding through the mountains why won't is suffice for
you?

>> Like I say, fit is really the most important thing, and if you say you
>> want comfort and performance, you are not likely to get either from a
>> bike you can't test-ride first. Get yourself into a LBS and have them
>> find you something that is just right for you. They can swap out stems
>> and handlebars and seats (for a small upcharge usually, sometimes
>> they'll do even trades) and get it dialled in. Mail-order shops can't do
>> that for you.

>
>Only problem is that these particular bikes sound like real sweet deals
>and aren't available except online from the manufacturer.


You don't know enough about bikes to be buying that way. Bottom line.

>What's the big deal with the "fit," though? An 18" frame is an
>18"...and the seat posts adjust, etc. I really wanted to know what the
>components of the drop-bar are like compared to those of the flat-bar.


No, an 18" mountain bike is not the same as an 18" comfort bike and not at all
like an 18" drop bar road bike.

The components are different to suit the fact that they are on entirely
different styles of bike. They are perfectly good components and work far better
than you ride.

>> As far as caliper brakes...why not? These aren't mountain bikes. They're
>> light enough and strong enough for 100% of the TDF field, and those guys
>> descend at 50 mph. The _only_ reason they don't use them on dirt bikes
>> is for tire clearance.

>
>I thought the V-brakes stop better? I went from cantilever brakes on a
>chromoly to the old Trek 7500 (the old one, not the current one -- why
>did they change the frame geometry? It seems like everyone's hybrid
>line has got the angled top tube now) with aluminum and V-brakes...cool
>stuff.


How bad do you need to stop? Calipers work fine for what they are.

>> Sorry if you're getting dogpiled here, but you really should do some
>> test rides of both flat- and drop-bar bikes before you try to make your
>> decision based on Ti vs. Al or 18.2 vs. 18.6.

>
>I'm sure I won't like drop-bars since I think the typical flat-bar
>forces me to hunch over as it is! I always raise the headset (correct
>term?) myself...upright means comfort!


Upright means slow and your ass hurts.

>> To answer your overall question, I'd go for the drop-bar bike, but
>> that's because I like drop bars, not because of its componentry or frame
>> material.

>
>I suppose I could always raise the drop-bars too?
>
>When hunched over, my back really becomes the rear suspension!


Use your legs.

>What's it mean that the Airborne Thunderbolt comes in 10-speed (is that
>right, only ten speeds????) "double" or 10-speed "triple"????


Ten cogs times whatever's at the front.

Ron
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
maxo wrote:
>
>
> A quality steel frame weighs about a pound more than a ti or carbon frame.
> Not insisting that you go with steel, but go with the frame that's got the
> feel that you like, no matter what the material. Weight's a hell of a lot
> more important when it comes to wheels.


Ah, another misconception clarified!

Thanks...now, how would anyone tell whether it's a "quality" steel
frame??

> When you see a carbon or ti bike built up with an advertised spec of
> something crazy like 15 pounds, it's due to all the components being the
> lightest of of breed, not just the frame.


Oh yes, I totally realize that...that aluminum Thunderbolt is actually
slightly lighter than the titanium hybrid! Is titanium a better
material, generally?

I'm thinking of the Thunderbolt Triple now, even though my first
impluse was towards the titanium hybrid....

> :)
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Gooserider wrote:
>
>
> Aluminum can be SCARY light, and steel isn't 5-10 pounds heavier. Try 1-2
> pounds.


So what's generally lighter, all other things (frame geometry, etc.)
being equal -- ti, carbon fiber, aluminum, or quality steel?

> I'm sure you couldn't stand to lose 5 pounds off your body, right?


Hehehe...5'11" and 230 lbs. -- I was statistically overweight for my
age and height even at my best shape of 185 lbs.!

> If you want to be comfortable, frame material is the least of your concern.


Well, part of comfort for me would be not carrying so many pounds,
whether portaging over stairs or climbing long New Jersey hills!

> Tire size and frame geometry have far more to do with it.


Frame geometry affects weight??

> That being said,
> don't you wonder why so many touring bikes are STEEL? :)


LOL -- didn't know they were!
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Gooserider wrote:
>
>
> Airborne is fine, if you don't mind buying a Chinese bicycle.


Indeed! Oddly enough, Airborne notes on its website that although the
frame comes from a Chinese aerospace and satellite company (?!), their
bikes still qualify under US Trade regulations as American Made!

> I don't
> support communist dictatorships.


This is so interesting...what Red China products do you do without, and
what do you substitute them with? Like everything's made there these
days.

> I own three Taiwanese bikes, and an
> American bike. The American bike is head and shoulders above the Taiwanese
> quality wise, but it was far more expensive, too. I wouldn't buy the
> Airborne, but that's purely on an ethical level. I'm sure the quality is
> fine.


Are you sure those so-called "Taiwanese" bikes aren't perhaps made in
some mainland China factory? I understand everybody's got factories in
China.
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Zoom wrote:
>
>
> I don't mind buying Chinese bikes, I have three of them from this
> manufacturer. Whether a dictatorship is communist or capitalist is all
> the same to me.


Indeed! As GEN Patton said of the Soviets and Nazis -- "it's just like
the Democrats and Republicans!" Seriously...the country winds up going
to war whether you care for it or not.

> My titanium mountain bike has taken a pounding and is still going strong.


Is titanium inherently stronger than aluminum or carbon fiber?
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
RonSonic wrote:
>
>
> "In some distant land it is possible that bicycle seats are made out of rainbow
> and stuffed with cloud. In this world it's easier to just get used to something
> hard."


Ah, straight out of the '80s Charmin commercial!

> Heres the deal, upright position puts more weight on your ass it also forces
> your legs around the saddle at an awkward angle unless you set the seat too low.
> Which puts yet more weight on your ass and kills your pedalling efficiency.
> That big sofa-like saddle will require that you set it low.
>
> There is no reason for a saddle like that to be light. It simply cannot be fast
> anyway.


Ah, yes, conventional wisdom. That's why it's so hard for me to find a
"comfort bike" with "performance" specs!

> Fit is never equal.


We're talking theory, here, and necessarily so, since there's no exact
way to quantify "comfort" and "fit," least not over usenet!

> As for all the brand names and model numbers, aren't you the
> guy whining that the components might not be adequate to your demands. If you
> want to be a weenie and fuss about that sort of thing, then get weenie about it
> and fuss about that sort of thing.


???

> Better for WHAT? For WHOM? How good do the parts have to be. Shimano LX is
> perfectly adequate for pounding through the mountains why won't is suffice for
> you?


I'm asking the questions, and if you hear them, then I'm obviously
soliciting your opinion, as I haven't a clue what Shimano-this and
Bontrager-that means.

> You don't know enough about bikes to be buying that way. Bottom line.


It's true I'm a noob when it comes to technical stuff like this, which
is why I'm asking here! Thing is, I do know I don't want some
pig-heavy Huffy from Walmart, if you take my meaning....

> No, an 18" mountain bike is not the same as an 18" comfort bike and not at all
> like an 18" drop bar road bike.


Which is why I'd noted earlier about "all other things being equal" --
an 18" comfort bike is not different in that respect than another 18"
comfort bike.

Of course, I'm asking about a hybrid and a road bike, and I know there
are differences...just wanted to pick your brains for any I may have
missed, noob that I am.

> The components are different to suit the fact that they are on entirely
> different styles of bike. They are perfectly good components and work far better
> than you ride.


?

On my old Trek 7500, I must have put $500 worth of "work" into it over
about eight years...new cables, chains, cranksets, etc. I really wear
things out! But I can't imagine riding any other way -- don't see what
I might be doing wrong, if I'm prematurely wearing parts out somehow.

> How bad do you need to stop? Calipers work fine for what they are.


Let's put it this way...I was riding like an NYC messenger in midtown
rush-hour traffic before I actually did it for a summer spell! =)

> Upright means slow and your ass hurts.


That's intersting! I understand the "slow" part -- but I ain't racing,
just wanted as "fast" as possible given how I ride (which means
components, etc., to my way of thinking) -- though I don't see how
upright means up the ass, either. =) Do you mean "crotch" or
literally ass?? My ass rarely hurts...it's the crotch...ouch!

> Use your legs.


I do, but it's the ol' suspenders-and-belt theory: two systems are
better than one. After all, I'm already using my legs anyway! And it
always gets to your back, in any case, eventually....

> Ten cogs times whatever's at the front.


OIC!

> Ron


Sorry for the noob questions, but thanks for your feedback!
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
>
>
> There are no small charges at an lbs. They will want $30 for a stem
> you can get for<$10 online. LBS have crappy return policies. Order
> saddles online then you can return them . Or get a Brooks B17 and be in
> bliss. I wouldnt hesitate to buy a bike online.


I must say, many of the NYC LBSes don't seem to be too "caring"...maybe
they're tired of the same damned noobish concerns day after day. =)

It's true there are no small charges...fixing a flat is at least ten
bucks! (I do understand they've got more expenses, though.) The other
thing with LBSes is that you deal with "personalities"...it's not like
you go to McDonald's and just get your hamburger (LOL -- wait, hear me
out, don't flame me!), you go and the person wants to know why the hell
anyone would want pickles in their hamburger, why don't you try the
healthier chicken sandwich, whatever...I find it hard to talk to LBS
folks 'cause if they're knowledgeable about bikes it's like they're
running for the Presidency or something! =D

I mean, hell, if I want to annoy someone with my stupdity, I'll come to
usenet and do it.

But the Brooks B17?? Looks like any ol' saddle!

You mean the Serfas RX doesn't look comfy to you??
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Gooserider wrote:
>
>
> The problem with buying Chinese goods is the very real possibility that
> doing so supports our enemy.War with China over Taiwan is not out of the
> question.


Of course, the other school of thought counters that this is precisely
why you must keep 'em engaged through trade. As their economy becomes
ever more dependent on foreign trade, etc., war becomes more and more
"impractical"...if Nixon hadn't gone to China, China might be just
another North Korea now.

> The Chinese have a horrible human rights record, you know.


So do many US allies. That doesn't stop us from buying Saudi oil, etc.

> People
> there are routinely put in re-education camps, undergo forced sterilization,
> are placed in forced labor camps, and face other such horrible acts.


I totally agree. I just don't think that I can have any more effect on
those issues than the US government, which has very limited effect on
issues it considers even more important.

> Every
> dollar you spend on Chinese goods goes to strengthen them both economically
> and militarily. I would no more buy Chinese goods than I would buy conflict
> diamonds.


Conflict diamonds? What are these, please?
 
A

araby

Guest
"NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Gooserider wrote:
>>
>>
>> Aluminum can be SCARY light, and steel isn't 5-10 pounds heavier. Try 1-2
>> pounds.

>
> So what's generally lighter, all other things (frame geometry, etc.)
> being equal -- ti, carbon fiber, aluminum, or quality steel?
>
>> I'm sure you couldn't stand to lose 5 pounds off your body, right?

>
> Hehehe...5'11" and 230 lbs. -- I was statistically overweight for my
> age and height even at my best shape of 185 lbs.!
>
>> If you want to be comfortable, frame material is the least of your
>> concern.

>
> Well, part of comfort for me would be not carrying so many pounds,
> whether portaging over stairs or climbing long New Jersey hills!


Are you serious?
An extra 5 pounds on a rider plus bike all up weight of 230+20lb bike
weight i.e.250lb is 5/250 =2%!!
Have you ever stopped to consider why these bikes are being offered at such
a massive discount. There aren't any free lunches.
Also if you aren't familiar with -as you put it "Shimano this and Bontrager
that", why are we having this discussion?. You really need to buy a copy of
Bike 101 and read it. I don't understand your comments re: caliper brakes.
Virtually all performance road bikes have them including ALL the TdeF
iders -same thing with drop bars
I'm not trying to be rude but are you on the level -or are you trying
(-successfully!)to wind us up?

Cheers

Roy
 
J

jj

Guest
On 22 Jul 2005 21:06:09 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>di wrote:
>>
>>
>> why would you want a titanium hybrid?

>
>
>I'M SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ******GLAD****** YOU ASKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>It seems like manufacturers also think there isn't a market out there
>for folks who like their uprights (or upwrongs, as the 'bent crowd
>likes to crow!) comfy as well as light and speedy.
>
>I'm not into racing, but I do do a lot of bike riding for someone who's
>not into racing! So I want to be comfortable...but that also means not
>dealing with that extra five to ten pounds of a non-ti or carb-fi
>bike....


How old are you? I'm imagining you can't touch your toes and that you
haven't ridden a bike for many years.

Maybe you need to examine why you're uncomfortable.

I switched from a straight bar bike to one with drops. My saddle and the
top of the drop bar are the same height (not the typical 4" differenence in
height - higher saddle, lower bars). I just got a longer stem that put them
at the same height.

Straight bar bikes are uncomfortable for the following reasons:

1. Sitting upright puts more weight on the posterior/saddle. This can be
very uncomfortable after 20 miles.
2. The hand spacing on straight bar bikes puts your hands further apart
then riding a drop bar bike on the tops - this cranks your wrists to an
unnatural angle.
3. Straight bar bikes only have one or two hand positions - and
uncomfortable ones at that. Drop bar bikes have at least four positions.
4. Sitting upright and holding the straight part of the bar on my drop bar
puts me in a more upright position than my straight bar bike.
5. When you improve your riding you will naturally want to be more
stretched out on the bike. This will cause most people to feel the
handlebars are too close and they'll end up trying a thumbless grip or bar
ends to move the hands and arms further forward.

So my suggestion to you is to try the drop bar bike but insist they put a
taller stem on the bike to raise your handlebars to be level with the seat.

When you sit on this bike imagine where your weight is going when riding.
It should be 33% on your butt, 33% on the pedals and 33% on your
handlebars. You do not want to have 70% of your weight on the saddle, iow.

Look at the width of your grip and your arms and see how straight your
wrists are when gripping the top of the drop bar - compare to the obtuse
angle of your wrists on the straight bar.

Second, do some flexibility work after each ride while you're still
sweating and warm. Get to the point where you can get in a tuck - touch
your toes and if possible touch your forehead to your knees with leg
locked.

If, on the other hand you've got a logic-tight compartment on this subject
- do whatever the hell you want. ;-)

I'm seriously doubting that you, sitting upright worried about 'comfort'
are able to ride as fast as your bike messenger friend on a drop bar racing
bike, btw.

jj

>I CAN'T be the only one who reasons this way...!
>
>I went to so many bike shops around NYC, and they all gave me that WTF
>stare...but it makes perfect sense to me! Why is the world so
>black-and-white anyway?? I like comfort, but I also like performance!
>
>When I lean more towards comfort (actually, when I have more cash) I'll
>get a recumbent bike...for now, I'm still leaning towards out-and-out
>performance -- but comfort's still a main, if not *the* main, factor!
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Ron Ruff wrote:
> Both of those bikes are decent deals, but it is difficult to advise you
> intelligently.


What makes them "only" a "decent" deal to you?

Oh, I guess I just wanted a general opinion like the sort that Human
Resources do when scanning resumes and deciding how to file them, know
what I mean? Of course you need to interview the candidates, not to
mention monitor them during a probationary period of employment -- etc.
-- but for starters you start with the theory of it all, the looks of
the resume.

I was just wondering about the opinions of serious riders like
yourself. Me, I'm only more serious than the average rider in that I
ride a lot -- but commuting and touring, not racing or centuries.

> You want speed *and* comfort (ie an upright position with a big cushy
> saddle). These are somewhat exclusive traits.


Yes, as absolutes. I was just hoping to get a nice balance -- and I
totally understand where you're coming from with your hesitancy: my
question is like the sort folks have about "what's a good
computer"...naturally, it all depends on what you plan on doing mostly
and how much you're willing to spend. But bikes are rather simpler so I
imagined the question much more relevent, if still difficult.

> Speed is primarily a function of how much power you can produce, how
> much you weigh (important only on climbs), and what your air resistance
> is (important only on a fairly flat road or descent).
>
> In all of these, your body and position is much more important than the
> bike you have. Saving 8 lbs (on the bike or the rider) will only effect
> your climbing speed significantly, and that will only improve by a few
> % at the very most.


It's true, you're right. I can definitely outclimb the "average" rider
in my whale of a chromoly.

> If you want to go fast on the flat, you need to be in an aerodynamic
> position with your back nearly flat. You call this "uncomfortable" (you
> like to sit upright), but the most important property of a "fast" bike
> is that it allows this position. If this is difficult for you, then you
> will have to work towards it slowly, with stretching and training.
> Basically, you need to *make* it comfortable if you really want to go
> fast.


Now there's a thought! I just never imagined bicycling as something to
train for, though...I never did think of it as "exercise" -- it's just
a pick-up-and-go affair for me, ever since as a kid. I guess that's my
thing here: I'm still stuck in the same kiddie mentality I had when I
first got into bikes -- couldn't drive, but didn't need to with a bike!

> Same for the saddle. The skinny, hard saddles are actually comfortable
> once you get used to them... much better than the fat cushy ones that
> come on cheap bikes. You need to be wearing decent shorts, of course.


Decent shorts? See, this is the thing -- I do look like an average
rider, the sort that doesn't wear the spandex and jerseys and helmets
(oops) and carry water bottles....

How about that Serfas RX, the skinny racing one? It's got an
interesting hole in the middle of it...I'm thinking I won't be grinding
my, uh, whatchamacallit-bone with that space there....

> Personal experience... I recently upgraded my "road" bike from a $300
> MTB with a long low stem, barends, rigid fork, and 1.25" slicks, to a
> $3,000 Ti racing bike with Dura Ace. The new bike is about 10 lbs
> lighter, and I could get slightly more aero... I also think the tires
> have a little less rolling resistance. All of this resulted in a speed
> increase on my regular time-trials of 1-2%... and this is more than I
> expected.


Whoa!

> So, the bike alone isn't really that important. But if you would like
> to get a new one, and you are truly interested in going fast, then get
> a road bike with drop bars (they afford more position options that also
> have access to the brakes), adjust the position so it is comfortable
> *now*, and as you become more flexible, lower the bars and extend the
> reach. This is pretty economical and easy to do by changing the stem...
> as long as you get the right size frame to start with.
>
> BTW, Ti is great but aluminum and steel are also fine. Best not to
> spend too much money at this point, and make sure you get a good fit.


But just what is a "good fit"?

Bikes have always been uncomfortable to me...I just put up with it;
just figured that's how they are. What's "comfort" on a bike? It's a
damned unnatural position, to be hunched over with that thing between
one's legs like that!

> Anyway, good luck,
>
> -Ron


Thanks! Looking to get a recumbent next year, too!
 
R

res09c5t

Guest

> find you something that is just right for you. They can swap out stems
> and handlebars and seats (for a small upcharge usually, sometimes
> they'll do even trades) and get it dialled in. Mail-order shops can't
> do
> that for you. <<


Airborne has a free stem exchange policy. They do charge if the new stem is
more expensive.

http://www.airborne.net/eready/janette/Store/swaproad.asp
 
Q

Qui si parla Campagnolo

Guest
NYC XYZ wrote:
> Vis-a-vis the price, anyway -- $1,300 for 19-lb. bikes!!
>
> http://www.airborne.net/eready/janette/Store/05LXTI-special.asp
>
> http://www.airborne.net/eready/janette/store/05TB-special.asp
>
>
> The first link is to a TITANIUM frame upright, while the second is for
> the Thunderbolt with an aluminum frame. Oddly enough, the aluminum
> bike weighs slightly less than the titanium one?? Components, I
> suppose -- so what do y'all think of 'em?
>
> For example...caliper brakes?? 9-speed cassette??
>
> Which one would you get, if these were the choices?
>
> How do they compare to your current bike -- etc.?


Find a good bike shop, see if the thing fits you, and then it may be a
good deal. If ya buy it, take it again to a good bike shop and have hit
disassembvled and reassembled correctly, particularly the wheels.
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> since you want a Ti bike, I would suggest that you go here:
> http://www.habcycles.com/
> Habanero frames are good quality, just like airborne. However, it is
> smaller volume, and the owner, Mark, will spend more time talking to
> you and answering all the questions that you have very patiently.


Hey, cool, thanks for the ref!

> Mark
> is a regular poster here and a nice guy, but don't talk politics with
> him.


LOL -- politics? That's interesting...the bike advocacy orgs here in
NYC seem pretty left-of-center!

> Andres
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
> Find a good bike shop, see if the thing fits you, and then it may be a
> good deal. If ya buy it, take it again to a good bike shop and have hit
> disassembvled and reassembled correctly, particularly the wheels.



I figured the thing was coming in a box, and I was going to hire this
dude from the LBS to assemble it for me right (he's been trying to
start a lil' side-job, apparently...how much should a guy be paid for
this work, assembling a bike? Does it seem suspicious he also deals in
used bikes, on the side, on his own?).
 
T

threefire

Guest
You must be joking. You think economically sanctioning a country will
help improve its human rights? You think the ruler rather than the
regular people are going to suffer more from a poor economy? The
"enemy" thing is nothing more than a fear out of ignorance. When was
the last time China was of any real and actual threat to the US? How
many of the claims you made were from first hand experience instead of
politically motivated propaganda (you believe everything said on TV?
they also say you can lose 70 pounds in a month on TV)? The human
rights violation theory is way overrated. It's in many people's
interests to exaggerate these things.

Besides, half of the goods sold in this country are made in China. You
better stop buying anything now.

Gooserider wrote:
> >> Airborne is fine, if you don't mind buying a Chinese bicycle. I don't
> >> support communist dictatorships. I own three Taiwanese bikes, and an
> >> American bike. The American bike is head and shoulders above the
> >> Taiwanese quality wise, but it was far more expensive, too. I wouldn't
> >> buy the Airborne, but that's purely on an ethical level. I'm sure the
> >> quality is fine.

> >
> > I don't mind buying Chinese bikes, I have three of them from this
> > manufacturer. Whether a dictatorship is communist or capitalist is all the
> > same to me.
> > My titanium mountain bike has taken a pounding and is still going strong.

>
> The problem with buying Chinese goods is the very real possibility that
> doing so supports our enemy.War with China over Taiwan is not out of the
> question. The Chinese have a horrible human rights record, you know. People
> there are routinely put in re-education camps, undergo forced sterilization,
> are placed in forced labor camps, and face other such horrible acts. Every
> dollar you spend on Chinese goods goes to strengthen them both economically
> and militarily. I would no more buy Chinese goods than I would buy conflict
> diamonds.
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
araby wrote:
>
>
> Are you serious?
> An extra 5 pounds on a rider plus bike all up weight of 230+20lb bike
> weight i.e.250lb is 5/250 =2%!!


Just figured that it all adds up...my weekend rides can be like 50+
miles (and Jersey has a lot of hills)....

> Have you ever stopped to consider why these bikes are being offered at such
> a massive discount. There aren't any free lunches.


Indeed, that's why I wanted your opinions on these two particular
Airborne models being discounted.

> Also if you aren't familiar with -as you put it "Shimano this and Bontrager
> that", why are we having this discussion?


I just wanted to know what folks in the know think of this Airborne
sale.

> You really need to buy a copy of
> Bike 101 and read it. I don't understand your comments re: caliper brakes.
> Virtually all performance road bikes have them including ALL the TdeF
> iders -same thing with drop bars


Sorry, but I'm not your kind of rider...never knew the difference
between "wheel" and "rim" for the longest time; just didn't occur to
me!

> I'm not trying to be rude but are you on the level


Sorry, but I really haven't any idea which is why I'm here asking!

> -or are you trying
> (-successfully!)to wind us up?


What is it with the Black Helicopters and New World Order?? =)

> Cheers
>
> Roy
 
Z

Zoom

Guest
NYC XYZ wrote:
> araby wrote:
>
>>
>>Are you serious?
>>An extra 5 pounds on a rider plus bike all up weight of 230+20lb bike
>>weight i.e.250lb is 5/250 =2%!!

>
>
> Just figured that it all adds up...my weekend rides can be like 50+
> miles (and Jersey has a lot of hills)....
>
>
>> Have you ever stopped to consider why these bikes are being offered at such
>>a massive discount. There aren't any free lunches.

>
>
> Indeed, that's why I wanted your opinions on these two particular
> Airborne models being discounted.
>
>
>>Also if you aren't familiar with -as you put it "Shimano this and Bontrager
>>that", why are we having this discussion?

>
>
> I just wanted to know what folks in the know think of this Airborne
> sale.
>
>
>>You really need to buy a copy of
>>Bike 101 and read it. I don't understand your comments re: caliper brakes.
>>Virtually all performance road bikes have them including ALL the TdeF
>>iders -same thing with drop bars

>
>
> Sorry, but I'm not your kind of rider...never knew the difference
> between "wheel" and "rim" for the longest time; just didn't occur to
> me!
>
>
>>I'm not trying to be rude but are you on the level

>
>
> Sorry, but I really haven't any idea which is why I'm here asking!
>
>
>>-or are you trying
>>(-successfully!)to wind us up?

>
>
> What is it with the Black Helicopters and New World Order?? =)
>
>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Roy

>
>


This is the place that makes the Airborne frames.
You can email them direct and they will answer your questions. Ask them
for a price list.

http://www.xacd.com.cn/
 
B

Bill Sornson

Guest
NYC XYZ wrote:

{whole buncha snippage}

> I totally agree. Thing is, $1,200 for this bike is quite a deal! I'm
> sure I'll fit...I've always bought pre-built bikes, and they've never
> felt totally comfortable, whatever that means when it comes to
> bicycling.


Have you ever been fit to a bike?

Giving up now, BS
 
B

Bill Sornson

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
>>> Get yourself into a LBS and have them

> find you something that is just right for you. They can swap out stems
> and handlebars and seats (for a small upcharge usually, sometimes
> they'll do even trades) and get it dialled in. Mail-order shops can't
> do
> that for you. <<
>
> There are no small charges at an lbs. They will want $30 for a stem
> you can get for<$10 online. LBS have crappy return policies. Order
> saddles online then you can return them . Or get a Brooks B17 and be
> in bliss. I wouldnt hesitate to buy a bike online.


DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS MAN -- HE'S A HORSE'S ASS.

NYC, Just frigging go to a shop already; why is that so distasteful for
you?!?