How Do These Airborne Specs Look?



G

Gooserider

Guest
"NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Thanks for the ref -- I've never heard of "tensioned leather"...sounds
> like a throw-back to yesteryear!
>
> The more this thread develops, the more I'm getting a sense of that
> "blind men describing different parts of an elephant"...where I'm all
> three blind men!
>
> Sigh...gotta learn with some $$$ what saddles suit me, I see. So I'm
> gonna get a Serfas RX and one of these leather thinggies, too, and see!
>

I have to agree with the Brooks B17 recommendation. Even though I'm
fortunate to never have ridden an uncomfortable saddle---I have an el cheapo
Velo on my town bike, a Performance house cheapo on my MTB, and Brooks B17s
on both road bikes. I used a Specialized Body Geometry for years, and it was
one of the gimmicky saddles with the cutout. Very comfortable. The Brooks,
however, become YOURS once they're broken in. Break-in doesn't take as long
as you would imagine, and the saddle is still comfortable before. They're
great, they're handmade, and they look fantastic.
 
G

Gooserider

Guest
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>>>Get yourself into a LBS and have them

> find you something that is just right for you. They can swap out stems
> and handlebars and seats (for a small upcharge usually, sometimes
> they'll do even trades) and get it dialled in. Mail-order shops can't
> do
> that for you. <<
>
> There are no small charges at an lbs. They will want $30 for a stem
> you can get for<$10 online. LBS have crappy return policies. Order
> saddles online then you can return them . Or get a Brooks B17 and be in
> bliss. I wouldnt hesitate to buy a bike online.


I have bought online and got a good result. I knew my size and exactly what
I wanted, and I'm a capable wrench. If somebody is lacking those
qualifications, then an LBS would be a good idea. I did have my LBS build my
new bike, but I bought a bunch of parts myself. The shop owner showed me his
QBP catalog, and I beat his prices on the drivetrain components and brakes.
I got my handlebar from Rivendell, since it's their bar. Everything else I
got from the shop, and they gave me 10% off accessories. They were able to
beat everybody's price on my fenders and rack, too.
 
G

Gooserider

Guest
"NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> RonSonic wrote:
>>
>>
>> "In some distant land it is possible that bicycle seats are made out of
>> rainbow
>> and stuffed with cloud. In this world it's easier to just get used to
>> something
>> hard."

>
> Ah, straight out of the '80s Charmin commercial!
>
>> Heres the deal, upright position puts more weight on your ass it also
>> forces
>> your legs around the saddle at an awkward angle unless you set the seat
>> too low.
>> Which puts yet more weight on your ass and kills your pedalling
>> efficiency.
>> That big sofa-like saddle will require that you set it low.
>>
>> There is no reason for a saddle like that to be light. It simply cannot
>> be fast
>> anyway.

>
> Ah, yes, conventional wisdom. That's why it's so hard for me to find a
> "comfort bike" with "performance" specs!
>

Really? Here are some:

Trek Pilot series:

http://www2.trekbikes.com/Bikes/Road/Performance_Road/Pilot/Index.php

Trek Comfort Road series:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/Bikes/Road/Comfort_Road/Index.php

Gunnar Sport:(my recommedation)

http://www.gunnarbikes.com/sport.php

Specialized Sequoia:

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?sid=05Sequoia

Jamis Ventura Sport:

http://www.jamisbikes.com/bikes/05_venturasport.html

And, of course, Rivendell(possibly the origins of comfort road bikes)

http://www.rivbike.com/html/bikes_rambouilletframes.html

Those choices are but a handful. There are far more. Have fun!
 
D

di

Guest
"Gooserider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>
> My Schwinn Peloton was also made in Taiwan. Of course, it's a pre-Pacific
> buyout Schwinn. My Mongoose MTB was made in Taiwan a LOOOONG time before
> China entered the game. And, naturally, my Gunnar was made in Wisconsin
> from American made True Temper steel. My conscience is clear.
>
>

I have 4 Cannondales & 1 Rans, all are American made frames, just wish I
could say the same about the components.
 
C

C.J.Patten

Guest
Gooserider,

Would you mind sharing how you went about figuring correct fore/aft seat
position?
I think I've got my seat and bar height correct but I'm still tweaking
front/back. :)

Chris


"Gooserider" <[email protected]o.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> My shop did none of that with my Gunnar, but I knew exactly how I wanted
> it set up. They nailed the frame size with a few measurements---but the
> wrench has been fitting people for 20 years, and it's a high end shop.


> I had to do some fiddling here and there with saddle position(fore and
> aft) but that's to be expected.
 
G

Gooserider

Guest
"C.J.Patten" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Gooserider,
>
> Would you mind sharing how you went about figuring correct fore/aft seat
> position?
> I think I've got my seat and bar height correct but I'm still tweaking
> front/back. :)
>
> Chris
>

I have a problem with my hands going numb. I know if my saddle is too far
forward if I feel too much weight on my hands. That's about it. I achieved a
bend in my elbow on the hoods and that works for me. Not the most scientific
measure, I know, but....
 
G

Gooserider

Guest
"di" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Gooserider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>
>> "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>
>>
>> My Schwinn Peloton was also made in Taiwan. Of course, it's a pre-Pacific
>> buyout Schwinn. My Mongoose MTB was made in Taiwan a LOOOONG time before
>> China entered the game. And, naturally, my Gunnar was made in Wisconsin
>> from American made True Temper steel. My conscience is clear.
>>
>>

> I have 4 Cannondales & 1 Rans, all are American made frames, just wish I
> could say the same about the components.

You really have to respect Cannondale. They've always made their frames in
the US, even the "entry level" ones. That's great. Now they do have their
carbon frame made in Taiwan, but they're not in financial shape to invest
big bucks in domestic carbon production. When getting parts together for my
Gunnar, it was impossible to spec an all-American bike. My frame, fork, and
bottle cages are US made. The rest are Japanese, British, Italian, German,
and Taiwanese. But NO CHINESE. :)
 
D

Dane Jackson

Guest
In rec.bicycles.misc RonSonic <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly-cross-check.html#complete

>
> That's a pretty damn cool bike. One could quibble about some of the component
> choices but no disagreeing that they're a great bang for the buck package. A
> bunch of upgrades and this'll cost as much as what the OP was looking at.


Unless you really object to bar-cons I don't really think it needs much
upgrading. The wheels were a little underspec'ed for me, but I got some
miles out of them before I destroyed them. The rear derailleur got toasted
by a broken chain and replaced with an Ultegra I had lying around. Who
really cares what spec the front derailleur is on a double? The only
reason I'd want to replace it is if I want to pop on a granny ring and
turn it into a triple for touring or something.

I've put about 11000 miles on mine in the last 1.5 years or so. It's a
heck of a lot better than my old Giant OCR-2.

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade
themselves that they have a better idea.
-- John Ciardi
 
Performance is the best of both worlds if you are lucky to have one
near you. They have great return policy like their mail order branch
but you can go into a brick and mortar store and still get good prices.
I was in Heaven when I went to Orange County CA and got to visit
performance and supergo in person. There were also other good stores.
 
If I have to go buy an engagement ring I want the diamond cheap. Dont
really care how many third world hands heads and feet get chopped for
me to have it. The people in those countries are just uncivilized and
live like animals and are totally lost without European colonial
influence
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
It's too bad you're the type who thinks that unless someone agrees with
you, they obviously don't understand -- or is simply trolling.

When you grow up some more, you'll find discussions a lot more
pleasant, even if contrary.



di wrote:
>
>
> No, you're here to troll and argue, not get information.
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Jasper Janssen wrote:
>
>
> That's nice. Now that you've admitted that your primary motivation for
> posting is annoying us, I think i wont' be reading any more of your posts.


Circulus in probando. Capish?

> You are the weakest link, goodbye.
>
>
> Jasper


Good riddance, I say!
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Gooserider wrote:
>
>
> You want to be comfortable? Here you go:
>
> http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly-cross-check.html#complete


Interesting -- a $900 bike that seems like the Mongoose cromos in the
LBS for $300?? Looks like it uses old cantilever brakes, too!

> Steel frame, fat tires, relaxed geometry. Fender-able, rack-able. Heavier
> than your 19 pound Chinese wonder machine, but comfortable enough for you to
> actually ride the thing. You ride the Surly enough and you'll easily drop
> the 6 pounds of weight difference.


LOL -- but I don't see how you imagine this one more comfortable than
the Airborne models. Fat tires make for a naturally comfy ride, do
they? And how is the frame geometry more relaxed?

> Plus, the Surly is a better fit for NYC,
> unless you think the gossamer wheels on the Airborne are going to handle
> potholes and curbs well.


"Bontrager Select 700c Wheelset, 20/24, 835g/1020g" flimsy??
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Gooserider wrote:
>
>
> Since I would automatically add clipless pedals(maybe a combo
> clip/platform), a rack, and fenders, it would reach $1200 in no time.
> However, a fifty dollar upgrade here and there amortized over time would be
> no big deal. I think I would upgrade the derailleurs and crank(go to Deore
> or even 105, maybe a Sugino crankset). Other than that, it would be OK for
> years.


That's the thing...what do all these parts mean? If a ti frame isn't
inherently/obviously/absolutely better than a cromo/steel/alum one, how
are some cranks and pedals and whatnot better than others?

> There's a reason Surlys are big with messengers. I think the Cross-Check
> complete bike package is just about the best deal going.


But what makes it such a good deal, and vis-a-vis the Airborne
offerings??

> Plus---it doesn't
> have a flashy paint job, nor does it scream "TITANIUM PLEASE STEAL ME".
> Wait, any bike screams that in NYC....


LOL -- I've even had quick-release "wings" stolen from my bike!
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
araby wrote:
>
>
> Please don't let on this group if you do otherwise it will generate a thread
> longer than this one :)


LOL -- no wonder they call y'all the up-wrong crowd!

> If you do, you can forget the 19lb bike weight. Add another 10 and you are
> getting close -if you don't mind spending more than your $1200. For the
> $1250 quoted elsewhere on this thread typically you can get an Easy Racer EZ
> sport. Fine as far as it goes, but forget high performance and weight (well
> over 30lb).The same manufacturer makes the Ti Gold Rush. Seems right up your
> street. Probably the best or as good as any touring recumbent out there.
> Price a mere $5200. Weight 27lb
> Check out:
> http://www.easyracers.com/index.htm
> and another reputable manufacturer,
> http://www.ransbikes.com/
> -for all their products.


Lightning's got this $6K 'bent that's 22 lbs. Not bad! =)

> For what it's worth, I have been into and out of the recumbent phase. Four
> years was more than enough
> My last recumbent was a Rans Vrex. -$1700 and 30lb.
> Cheers,
>
> Roy


Out of the 'bent "phase"?? What happened?

Sure looks comfy...that's my next bike, a 'bent!
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> If I have to go buy an engagement ring I want the diamond cheap. Dont
> really care how many third world hands heads and feet get chopped for
> me to have it. The people in those countries are just uncivilized and
> live like animals and are totally lost without European colonial
> influence



LOL -- me personally, I'm sick of hearing about Africa all the time.
It's amazing that with all the BILLIONS spent on Africa during the past
forty years, it's still the same old whine about colonialism, racism,
economic exploitation, etc.

It's too bad you've got real racists on one side who really think
Africans should be enslaved for their own good and idiots on the other
side who suffer from a case of White Man's Guilt and think they have to
go out of their way to baby the Africans.
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Gooserider wrote:
>
>
> Comfort has about nothing to do with bike weight, NYC. If you want to climb
> hills, then the bike's gearing needs to be appropriate. A triple crankset
> with wide enough range in the rear cassette will make climbing easy.


That too. But it helps to not be pedaling 30 lbs. and only 19! And of
course, the speed -- which, to my way of thinking, also means
"comfort," though in a rather more indirect sense, insofar as lighter
is faster which means that I go further for the same amount of work....

It's all very abstract, I know, and real-world experiences would mean a
mere 2 or 3 percent difference, probably...but I'm figuring that they
all add up.

ANYWAY NO OFFENSE BUT YOU KNOW THIS THREAD'S BEEN "HIJACKED" BY Y'ALL
GOING ON ABOUT ALL KINDS OF ISSUES I DIDN'T BRING UP...don't get me
wrong -- the discussion's been very interesting and informative, but
ultimately my original question hasn't been answered in a direct way:
what do you think of the specs on those two Airborne models?

> I've heard (and experienced) of more people having hand pain/numbness than
> any other bike complaint. Why? Because people ride ill-fitting bikes.


Hand pains over ass pains? Wow, that's news to me.
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Actually, no quite. If I haven't spent any money yet, I haven't paid
them -- and a less time-consuming customer would be given priority over
a "tire-kicker" like me.

Besides, they have a vested interest in moving product. Here,
commercial pressures are most likely not a factor.



RonSonic wrote:
>
>
> They get paid for it.
>
> Ron
 
H

Hank Wirtz

Guest
"NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
>
> Interesting -- a $900 bike that seems like the Mongoose cromos in the
> LBS for $300?? Looks like it uses old cantilever brakes, too!


I think it was Richard Schwinn who said "If bikes had always been made
from Aluminum, Carbon Fiber or Titanium, and they introduced chromoly
steel, it would be hailed as a miracle."

The cheapo steel bikes that are labelled as "chromoly" are usually a mix
of chromoly and high-tensile steel. Back in the day, you may have had
chromoly main tubes and High-ten stays, but I've heard of bikes in the
last 15 years having only a chromoly head tube, which is the shortest
one on the bike.

This bike is 100% chromoly, and has an intelligent design for a
bombproof, comfortable road bike. Shallow angles and long chainstays
give a comfortable ride that can better handle uneven pavement. It has
clearance for fenders and wide tires.

And cantilever brakes stop great. They're better-suited to a road bike
than v-brakes because road levers (except a pricey set of Dia-Compe
287s) don't pull enough cable. Cantilevers are also better suited to
this bike than sidepulls because they have great clearance for wide
tires and fenders.

>
> LOL -- but I don't see how you imagine this one more comfortable than
> the Airborne models. Fat tires make for a naturally comfy ride, do
> they? And how is the frame geometry more relaxed?


Yes, fat tires do make for a more comfortable ride. As does relaxed
frame geometry. 72 degrees vs. 73 degrees on the size 58, which would be
about right for a guy who's 5'11". Wheelbase is longer on the Surly,
too.

It's one thing to not know how such things affect handling and comfort,
and to ask to have them explained, but here you're just mocking what
anybody who knows this stuff takes for granted.

>
>> Plus, the Surly is a better fit for NYC,
>> unless you think the gossamer wheels on the Airborne are going to
>> handle potholes and curbs well.

>
> "Bontrager Select 700c Wheelset, 20/24, 835g/1020g" flimsy??


20 and 24 spokes for a rider weighing 230lbs? Yes, flimsy. Mega-flimsy.
Those wheels are designed for racing, where whether they last longer
than that race day isn't much of a consideration. I'm about your size,
and I prefer 36-spoke wheels, because I'd just as soon not have to true
them after every ride.


I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt, but you're looking more
and more trollish to me.
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
RonSonic wrote:
>
>
> I just want a hooker who's a virgin and can cook.


You can certainly have it, depending on the order.

> We'll all get tired of explaining things long before you know everything.


Well, yes, that too...I am grateful for the feedback, but much of it is
general and actually kind of side-steps my original question about how
the Airborne specs look. It's been a very interesting and informative
discussion for me, thank you once again, but my questions haven't been
answered directly and exactly as much as other issues relating to fit,
LBSes, Chinese Commies, other brands, etc.

> Like anything else they wear and need maintenance. You seem to put in some
> pretty serious mileage too.


Basically, my bike is my car. I guess I just got to grow out of that
kid's mindset of a bike being...well, just a bike! Something you ride
hard and beat up on, if you know what I mean.

> Yeah, that can be rough on parts. I'm not much lighter.


Right, so I was wondering if the Airborne parts are good reliable
parts...for example, even though I'm a noob when it comes to technical
matters even I know that metal pedals will outlast plastic ones.

> I'd suggest starting from there. What about the Trek would you change or
> improve? Look at it from a baseline, unless you just want to try something
> completely different.


Could be even lighter! That's why these Airbornes appeal to me so
much...the upright Airborne seems like a Trek 7500, but much lighter!
I was also hoping the titanium frame was stronger than aluminum.

> Really isn't all that complicated is it. Shouldn't be painful or uncomfortable
> though. I think the difference between a bike that fits well and one that
> doesn't is that you can adapt to the one that fits, the one that doesn't is
> always gonna hurt.


Well I guess it's like describing colors to a congenitally blind man --
I just haven't any idea how it couldn't "hurt" to some degree.

> For example we talk about "breaking in" a saddle, and when you feel that heavy
> "chew toy" grade leather then reach down and feel your own ass you gotta wonder
> just which is the one doing the breaking in. Nonetheless we do get comfortable
> after some miles.


I'd always supposed I'd gotten used to it, is all.

Actually, the problem is most semantic and epistemological here...what
does "pain" and "comfort" mean here, and can it ever be communicated
adequately? Perhaps I've made y'all think of undue pain when in fact I
may be describing simple physical inconveniences such as any sport
would task of the human body.

> Ron