How Do These Airborne Specs Look?



N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Eh? Just a fancy, minimalist title page....



Zoom wrote:
>
>
>
> This is the place that makes the Airborne frames.
> You can email them direct and they will answer your questions. Ask them
> for a price list.
>
> http://www.xacd.com.cn/
 
T

The Wogster

Guest
NYC XYZ wrote:
> Jeff Starr wrote:
>
>>
>>Bill, he kind of reminds me of early Maggie, without the charm. This
>>guy is so full of preconceived ideas, that it will take a miracle to
>>get through to him.

>
>
> LOL -- actually, I simply have no idea what it means to be "fit to a
> bike"...what, they take out the tape measure like at the tailor's?


Actually some do.... A few measurements plugged into a set of formulas
will give you a good starting point..... Typical measurements are knee
down, inseam, trunk length, arm length.....

>>For the OP, go to a LBS and get a professional fitting, bicycles can
>>be comfortable.

>
>
> That's just the thing -- I haven't any idea what "comfortable" means!
> There's this bike shop, Pedal Pushers, that claims to do *laser*
> fitting...how do I know it's not just a gimmick?


It's probably a variation on the tape measure deal.....

>
> I say bikes are uncomfortable because I just haven't experienced total
> "comfort" on any -- but then again, all physical activity involves some
> measure of discomfort...could just be the hectic way I ride, too --
> could be all the pothole patches in NYC I have to go over, all the
> bumps...who knows?


Depends on where the bumps have effect, perhaps you need a bike with at
least front suspension, if it's back and spine jarring, then maybe an
old fashioned leather saddle with springs will help.....

>>Overly padded bike saddles are generally not
>>comfortable on longer rides. Another thing, two brands of bike with
>>the same size listing, may be very different. Geometry and where they
>>measure, affects this.

>
>
> Wow, this is worse than buying clothes and shoes!
>


A good LBS that does professional fitting, should know the variations,
between brands that they carry, and be able to convert from one to another.

W
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
>
>
> Those cushy saddles are fine for round the corner rides and such but
> for longer rides you need to support the sit bones .


Surprised they don't have that cut-out in the center...seems like such
a logical thing to do on a saddle!

> Check out
> www.mtbr.com and look at B17 reviews.
> There are no better saddles at least for my butt. Proper sizing is
> crucial. If you know what size you need then mail order is great.


Many, many thanks!
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Bill Sornson wrote:
>
>
> DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS MAN -- HE'S A HORSE'S ASS.


?

I have to concur with his statements about an LBS -- that's how it's
been with me, too. Of course, like I said, I do realize that a
brick-and-mortar operation has expenses above the typical internet
business'....

> NYC, Just frigging go to a shop already; why is that so distasteful for
> you?!?


Well, I guess I'd be pissing off folks there, too -- so why not come
here and do it? =)

Also, I'd feel obligated to buy something for all the questions I'd
pepper them with. Besides, they'd have other customers coming and
going...etc.
 
T

The Wogster

Guest
Gooserider wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>>since you want a Ti bike, I would suggest that you go here:
>>http://www.habcycles.com/
>>Habanero frames are good quality, just like airborne. However, it is
>>smaller volume, and the owner, Mark, will spend more time talking to
>>you and answering all the questions that you have very patiently. Mark
>>is a regular poster here and a nice guy, but don't talk politics with
>>him.
>>
>>Andres

>
>
> Habaneros are still Chinese. If you want Ti, save up and buy a Litespeed.
> Otherwise, there are plenty of perfectly fine bikes made from other
> materials. Ti can't do anything good steel doesn't. So it doesn't rust? I
> live in Florida, ride steel, and I don't have a rust problem. Proper
> maintenance goes a long way. Ti is
>
>


Rust doesn't have to be an issue for steel elsewhere either, keep a bike
clean (wash it once a week, a good time to lube the chain, check
adjustments like brakes and chain stretch), then touch up any paint
scratches and chips with one of those kits used for doing the same on an
automobile. I know Canadian Tire has them in Canada, Target or Ace
should in the US.... Steel bikes that get rusty, have not been properly
maintained.....

W
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Bill Sornson wrote:
>
>
> As I said 12 hours ago, "Dude, you're all over the map."


Stream-of-consciousness tends to be like that...and no, I can't
organize my thoughts 'cause I have no idea of the "territory" here so
questions just come out -- like when you're doing something for the
first time and you just do whatever instead of in any systematic way
because you haven't any theory in you by which to organize your
actions....

> Bill "OK, this time I /really/ give up!" S.


Thanks for playing!

Seriously, I figured I'd get that response from a bike shop, too, so
that's why I'm here. =)
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
!Jones wrote:
>
>
> Well, some folks get wound up pretty easily and methinks this one is
> in search of a reason. You're perfectly on topic asking a
> bicycle-related question here.


Thanks -- I'd just as soon go to a bike shop, but of course they're
trying to sell something, and likely to be busy with other customers,
too.

> If you want to see him have a conniption fit, propose restricting
> bicycles or requiring insurance... something like that. Sometimes
> it's fun to push a hot button and watch them slaver and chew the rug;
> however, you don't ever *learn* anything therein and I have a short
> attention span for that sort of thing.
>
> Jones


Well, I was wondering how come you don't see those shapely sexy babes
on bikes very often...seems like they're all skinny or old and
sun-burned!

<PEDALING>
 
H

Hank Wirtz

Guest
"Gooserider" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:


> You want to be comfortable? Here you go:
>
> http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly-cross-check.html#complete
>
> Steel frame, fat tires, relaxed geometry. Fender-able, rack-able.
> Heavier than your 19 pound Chinese wonder machine, but comfortable
> enough for you to actually ride the thing. You ride the Surly enough
> and you'll easily drop the 6 pounds of weight difference. Plus, the
> Surly is a better fit for NYC, unless you think the gossamer wheels on
> the Airborne are going to handle potholes and curbs well.
>
>
>


Wow...now you're talkin'. I thought the days of a quality steel bike for
under $1000 were long gone. It's like a Rivendell Atlantis's kid brother,
right down to the uber-cool bar-end shifters.
 
R

RonSonic

Guest
On 23 Jul 2005 10:36:29 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Jeff Starr wrote:
>>
>>
>> Bill, he kind of reminds me of early Maggie, without the charm. This
>> guy is so full of preconceived ideas, that it will take a miracle to
>> get through to him.

>
>LOL -- actually, I simply have no idea what it means to be "fit to a
>bike"...what, they take out the tape measure like at the tailor's?


Yep. For starters anyway.

>> For the OP, go to a LBS and get a professional fitting, bicycles can
>> be comfortable.

>
>That's just the thing -- I haven't any idea what "comfortable" means!
>There's this bike shop, Pedal Pushers, that claims to do *laser*
>fitting...how do I know it's not just a gimmick?


It IS a gimmick. But is probably part of a decent fitting. One of the tricks now
is to use a laser to track leg motion while pedaling.

>I say bikes are uncomfortable because I just haven't experienced total
>"comfort" on any -- but then again, all physical activity involves some
>measure of discomfort...could just be the hectic way I ride, too --
>could be all the pothole patches in NYC I have to go over, all the
>bumps...who knows?


True "comfortable" in this context is a relative thing. That said, as much as
you ride you should be able to get not uncomfortable.

>> Overly padded bike saddles are generally not
>> comfortable on longer rides. Another thing, two brands of bike with
>> the same size listing, may be very different. Geometry and where they
>> measure, affects this.

>
>Wow, this is worse than buying clothes and shoes!


Yep.

>> Maybe some background would help. What is your age and level of
>> fitness? How often do you ride? Do you wear padded bicycle shorts?
>> Where are you located?

>
>33, very fit (cardio and anaerobic), been riding since like 13, commute
>two hours four days a week and/or ride for six hours on the weekend
>exploring the NYC area. I don't wear padded shorts.
>
>Sorry, biking alway's been a "pick-up-and-go" affair for me...never
>imagined it's can be such a science for amateurs!


Really depends on how deeply you care to dig in.


>> Life is Good!


Indeed
Ron

>> Jeff
 
R

RonSonic

Guest
On 23 Jul 2005 11:03:10 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>RonSonic wrote:
>>
>> <SNIP>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorta like finding a luxury car with sports car performance and minivan cargo
>> capacity.

>
>Yup! What's the big deal with that?? Why can't you have a woman
>that's pretty and smart? <DUCKS>


I just want a hooker who's a virgin and can cook.

>> Well either get off your ass and find out -

>
>Uh, how do I get off my ass and "find out"...I thought that's the whole
>point of this thread!


We'll all get tired of explaining things long before you know everything.

>> Nah, just need to learn to do your own maintenance.

>
>So things are supposed to wear out??
>
>I guess I really have got it backwards...I'm think bikes are inherently
>"uncomfortable" but should "last"...seems like the only thing that
>lasts is the frame itself -- everything else can be expected to see
>replacement, including rims!


Like anything else they wear and need maintenance. You seem to put in some
pretty serious mileage too.

>I'm just saying, in response to your question, that at 5'11" and 230
>lbs. I ride often and I ride hard!


Yeah, that can be rough on parts. I'm not much lighter.

>> My question is what's wrong with the Trek that it should be replaced.

>
>Um, LOL -- it's stolen! =(


I'd suggest starting from there. What about the Trek would you change or
improve? Look at it from a baseline, unless you just want to try something
completely different.

>> You should be getting out of the saddle and shifting your position regularly.
>> Don't get settled in to one position.

>
>Yes, I do. Glad to see I'm doing something right, then! Always
>figured on bicycling being a "natural" thing.


Really isn't all that complicated is it. Shouldn't be painful or uncomfortable
though. I think the difference between a bike that fits well and one that
doesn't is that you can adapt to the one that fits, the one that doesn't is
always gonna hurt.

For example we talk about "breaking in" a saddle, and when you feel that heavy
"chew toy" grade leather then reach down and feel your own ass you gotta wonder
just which is the one doing the breaking in. Nonetheless we do get comfortable
after some miles.

Ron
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Gooserider wrote:
>
>
> Then you shouldn't be worrying so much about frame material and a couple of
> pounds on the bike.


I am all the more, actually, precisely because I myself am so heavy!

> Comfort is more about position and fit on the bike. Comfort is cumulative.


Indeed, and that's why, being cumulative, I figured that every pound
counts where it can be shaved off, even if to wind up making room for
something else deemed necessary!

> No, but it definitely affects comfort. An upright position with less weight
> on the hands makes a huge difference.


On the hands! That's why I'd said elsewhere that cycling seems
"inherently uncomfortable"...always something being stressed out. =)

Well, if anything, I've learned from all these discussions that a
drop-bar would be better, insofar as it offers more hand
positions...seems obvious now, but I'd just never thought of it!

> I'd say the majority are. There are some aluminum(Cannondale comes to mind)
> and some Ti(Airborne, Lightspeed), but most are steel.


Hmm!
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
di wrote:
>
>
> Actually I wasn't even thinking about performance and hybrid in the same
> chain of thought,


I know, I "caught" folks "off-guard" by not stating my premises.

> most of the people I know who start with a hybrid and stay
> with cycling will eventually go to either a good quality road bike or
> mountain bike and drop the hybrid.


I figured on the hybrid as the all-purpose bike. Later on I'd get
different bikes for specific roles.

> BY the way you can buy a very good
> recumbent for $1200.


Not a nineteen-pounder!
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Gooserider wrote:
>
>
> Ah, the wonders of free trade. How many American Ti fabricators could be
> employed if those bikes were made here?


I imagine the American companies do high-end Ti work -- M1 Abrams Main
Battle Tanks, for example.

> Can I find American made cheap plastic junk? No. Can I find bicycles, cars,
> motorcycles, appliances, and electronics not made in China. Sure, and I
> have.


Careful the components are out-sourced and actually made in China! The
devil's in the details.

> If the sticker says "Made in Taiwan", then that's the deal. They're all made
> at the same factories, anyway.


Damn, I'm surprised you trust a "Made in Taiwan" sticker over
Airborne's "Made in USA" sticker.
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Gooserider wrote:
>
>
> Or, the Chinese will continue to pour massive amounts of money into their
> military, strengthening them for the eventual takeover of Taiwan. That is
> the more likely scenario.


But don't you think it funny that the businessmen of Taiwan don't care
about this? They still continue investing and whatnot on the mainland.
Doesn't that strike you as funny, that while successive US
Administrations wonder what to do about China, the people of Taiwan
keep opening up more and more links, economic and otherwise?

> There are alternatives to buying Chinese bicycles. Saudi oil, not so much.
> At least not now. That's why I drive a car which gets excellent mileage, and
> commute by bicycle 4 days/week. The cartels aren't getting rich off me.


In the abstract, your reasoning is sound. I only wonder about whether
it actually carries the weight you seem to ascribe to it.
Psychologically you yourself feel better about your choices, but as
I've no particular "China animus," so to speak, I'd want to know that
my actions have actual political consequences, as that'd be the only
reason I'd forgo a financial bargain.

And in that regard, as Three Fire noted, it doesn't seem like
sanctioning Chinese products will improve the average Chinese worker's
life. The dictatorship is still there -- only that the proverbial
"little people" suffer more.

> But you can do the right thing.


Yeah, but what makes it the "right" thing? It's context, AFAIK.
Simply doing something in the abstract doesn't always translate well --
the ol' lying (a sin to some) to Nazis about Jews in your attic thing,
if you know what I mean.

Check this out: my sister and I are like big brother and sister to this
girl who's the daughter of my sister's friend's sister (got
that?)...her own mother is one of these ghetto party-types who dumps
her daughter with grand-parents, friends, etc. -- anyone, so long as
she can do the Jerry Springer thing...now is it right for us to be
minding this child? But if we don't, who will? The girl, Marianna,
has in effect been dumped on our doorstep (an even longer story)...what
do we do? If we don't play with her, take her out, etc., this kid will
be left vegetating at home in front of the TV.

The strictly principled stand is to "insist" on parental
responsibility, etc. The more practical thing seems to just
accommodate oneself to particular circumstances.

It's like -- stand back now -- welfare. Is it right? No, I don't
think so. But what will you do with all the -- ahem -- ghetto
free-loaders whose children are suddenly deprived, etc., in the absence
of a welfare check? Or handing out condoms in high school, or
abortion, or homosexuality...any hot button issue can be approached
from this "lesser of two evils" mentality -- you personally may not
agree with the morality of anything, but what's the alternative?

It's the old story of Jonah. Remember?

Hell is other people, as Sartre said. =)

> I'll bet you wouldn't buy a shampoo you knew
> was tested by being squirted in puppy's eyes(hypothetical, of course).


Actually, I eat meat, knowing full well the sickening conditions under
which this meat was raised.

(BTW, I heard on NPR last week that now scientists can actually create
meat -- chicken, beef, etc. -- in the laboratory! Anyone else hear
this???)

> Why
> you wouldn't have a problem buying a bicycle made in a country whose
> government routinely does worse things to people is beyond me.


Conveninence -- and also the conviction, for the time being at least,
that an economically strong China will mean improved every-day
conditions for the average Chinese, as we read that it has ever since
the '80s.

Don't forget that Taiwan used to make a bunch of stuff, and yet they
too had been a dictatorship until the mid-'80s. South Korea, etc.

Are you against trade with Vietnam, too? They're also a Commie
dictatorship...but I don't see any political wrangling over them.

I guess I'm just saying, as Three Fire also noted, that the big shots
in any society will always be comfortable...sanctions and war only
hurts the little folks. They should be employed as a last resort,
AFAIK.

> http://www.un.org/peace/africa/Diamond.html
> http://www.amnestyusa.org/diamonds/index.do
>
> Basically, conflict diamonds are those from Sierra Leone, Angola, and Congo.
> The sales of diamonds finance rebels who commit horrible atrocities against
> the civilian populations. Chopping off hands and feet with machetes is
> routine. I really don't think a little bling is worth somebody losing their
> hands, and the UN agrees.


Many thanks for the elucidation!

In the case of Africa, it does appear that the goods' sole purpose is
to finance war...China's different in that the goods provide for the
American lifestyle of cheap convenience which we're used to, and any
benefit to China's military ambitions are indirect, in the form of
taxes they levy -- which taxes they'd levy anyway.

Your whole thing seems to be about Chinese military capabilities and
domestic dictatorial atrocities...I read the papers too, and it's
really distressing to read about peasants being beaten up and killed by
local police for protesting the environmental abuse of their lands by
factory dumping...but this stuff goes on anyway, with or without the
American consumer. Whereas not purchasing conflict diamonds directly
undercut African civil wars, I just don't see how not purchasing
Chinese-made goods undercut Commie abuses. I mean, you think
successive Administrations couldn't have figured this out if it were
that simple??
 
T

The Wogster

Guest
RonSonic wrote:
>>Ah, yes, conventional wisdom. That's why it's so hard for me to find a
>>"comfort bike" with "performance" specs!

>
>
> Sorta like finding a luxury car with sports car performance and minivan cargo
> capacity.


Actually it's easier to do with a bike, but it would need to be custom
built, start with a light frame, preferably one with fittings for
fenders and racks, add a carbon or Ti fork, then build up the way you
want from there. Bike components are all highly interchangable, so it
should be easy enough to build a comfort bike, using some racing
components, some MTB components, and add a Brooks saddle for comfort.

W
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Jeff Starr wrote:
>
>
> What do you have against water bottles? How are you going to ride 50+
> miles, at a fast pace, and not drink any liquids?


No, I've got nothing "against" them...I just stop by the local
convenience store wherever I happen to be at for water -- Dasani
osmosis-purified Rasberry or Lemon!

> You are asking questions, but then debating or dismissing the answers.


I guess I'm employing the "Socratic Method" of inquiry that got him
killed....

> You don't like being numb in the crotch? Padded shorts might help
> that.


Yes, I'll give that $40 pair a try, soon...y'all are so for these
things I'm gonna try and see. Just always figured on them being
gimmicks -- like bottled water!

> Saddles are a personal thing, with certain general rules of thumb. You
> need a saddle that lines up with your sit bones, one that is
> comfortable for you. I went through four different saddles, before I
> settled on a Selle Italia Prolink basic.


Ah, another ref! Thanks!

> I really don't understand your reluctance to work with a LBS. They
> have to ask questions to understand your needs, and they are going to
> try to clear up your misconceptions, which would be no easy job.


Exactly -- I'm afraid to get blacklisted in NYC! Besides, they've got
sales to make...how do I know they even intend on being impartial?

> If you buy a bike online, without at least getting a pro fit and then
> assistance in fitting the new bike, you will continue to be
> uncomfortable.


So what's a "pro fit"? This shop, Pedal Pushers, has what they call
laser
fitting...http://pedalpusherbikeshop.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=95...does
this look genuine??

I just don't want to feel obligated...you see how folks here think I'm
being argumentative about things, when all I'm doing is asking
questions and follow-up questions...imagine a busy bike shop dealing
with that! Fitting me out, etc., only to have me decide to buy
elsewhere.

Forget Communist dictatorships...I feel bad enough doing that to my
LBS!

> Life is Good!
> Jeff
 
N

NYC XYZ

Guest
Jeff Starr wrote:
>
>
> What do you have against water bottles? How are you going to ride 50+
> miles, at a fast pace, and not drink any liquids?


No, I've got nothing "against" them...I just stop by the local
convenience store wherever I happen to be at for water -- Dasani
osmosis-purified Rasberry or Lemon!

> You are asking questions, but then debating or dismissing the answers.


I guess I'm employing the "Socratic Method" of inquiry that got him
killed....

> You don't like being numb in the crotch? Padded shorts might help
> that.


Yes, I'll give that $40 pair a try, soon...y'all are so for these
things I'm gonna try and see. Just always figured on them being
gimmicks -- like bottled water!

> Saddles are a personal thing, with certain general rules of thumb. You
> need a saddle that lines up with your sit bones, one that is
> comfortable for you. I went through four different saddles, before I
> settled on a Selle Italia Prolink basic.


Ah, another ref! Thanks!

> I really don't understand your reluctance to work with a LBS. They
> have to ask questions to understand your needs, and they are going to
> try to clear up your misconceptions, which would be no easy job.


Exactly -- I'm afraid to get blacklisted in NYC! Besides, they've got
sales to make...how do I know they even intend on being impartial?

> If you buy a bike online, without at least getting a pro fit and then
> assistance in fitting the new bike, you will continue to be
> uncomfortable.


So what's a "pro fit"? This shop, Pedal Pushers, has what they call
laser
fitting...http://pedalpusherbikeshop.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=95...does
this look genuine??

I just don't want to feel obligated...you see how folks here think I'm
being argumentative about things, when all I'm doing is asking
questions and follow-up questions...imagine a busy bike shop dealing
with that! Fitting me out, etc., only to have me decide to buy
elsewhere.

Forget Communist dictatorships...I feel bad enough doing that to my
LBS!

> Life is Good!
> Jeff
 
J

!Jones

Guest
On 23 Jul 2005 11:23:31 -0700, in rec.bicycles.tech "NYC XYZ"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Well, I was wondering how come you don't see those shapely sexy babes
>on bikes very often...seems like they're all skinny or old and
>sun-burned!
>
><PEDALING>


Oh, s***!! Now ya done it!

I *did* once have a sales person try to sell me a bike based on the
claim that some poster girl had rubbed her ass on it. Of course, it
was in a punk cruizer shop.

Jones
 
B

Bill Sornson

Guest
NYC XYZ wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:


>> NYC, Just frigging go to a shop already; why is that so distasteful
>> for you?!?

>
> Well, I guess I'd be pissing off folks there, too -- so why not come
> here and do it? =)
>
> Also, I'd feel obligated to buy something for all the questions I'd
> pepper them with. Besides, they'd have other customers coming and
> going...etc.


One last try.

The idea is to buy a bike. You go to a shop, tell them about the kind of
riding you do (or want/plan to do), and listen to their advice. You try out
what they have to offer. Maybe something really grabs you; maybe nothing
really does. Repeat a few times at /various/ bike shops, and either pick
something or wait a while longer.

Or, just buy one of those Airbornes and make it work.

Then go ride.

Out, BS