How Do These Airborne Specs Look?



D

di

Guest
"NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>>
>>
>> As I said 12 hours ago, "Dude, you're all over the map."

>
> Stream-of-consciousness tends to be like that...and no, I can't
> organize my thoughts 'cause I have no idea of the "territory" here so
> questions just come out -- like when you're doing something for the
> first time and you just do whatever instead of in any systematic way
> because you haven't any theory in you by which to organize your
> actions....
>
>> Bill "OK, this time I /really/ give up!" S.

>
> Thanks for playing!
>
> Seriously, I figured I'd get that response from a bike shop, too, so
> that's why I'm here. =)



No, you're here to troll and argue, not get information.
 
G

Gooserider

Guest
"NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Gooserider wrote:
>>
>>
>> Then you shouldn't be worrying so much about frame material and a couple
>> of
>> pounds on the bike.

>
> I am all the more, actually, precisely because I myself am so heavy!
>
>> Comfort is more about position and fit on the bike. Comfort is
>> cumulative.

>
> Indeed, and that's why, being cumulative, I figured that every pound
> counts where it can be shaved off, even if to wind up making room for
> something else deemed necessary!


Comfort has about nothing to do with bike weight, NYC. If you want to climb
hills, then the bike's gearing needs to be appropriate. A triple crankset
with wide enough range in the rear cassette will make climbing easy.

>> No, but it definitely affects comfort. An upright position with less
>> weight
>> on the hands makes a huge difference.

>
> On the hands! That's why I'd said elsewhere that cycling seems
> "inherently uncomfortable"...always something being stressed out. =)


I've heard (and experienced) of more people having hand pain/numbness than
any other bike complaint. Why? Because people ride ill-fitting bikes.

> Well, if anything, I've learned from all these discussions that a
> drop-bar would be better, insofar as it offers more hand
> positions...seems obvious now, but I'd just never thought of it!
>
>> I'd say the majority are. There are some aluminum(Cannondale comes to
>> mind)
>> and some Ti(Airborne, Lightspeed), but most are steel.

>
> Hmm!
 
G

Gooserider

Guest
"NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Gooserider wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ah, the wonders of free trade. How many American Ti fabricators could be
>> employed if those bikes were made here?

>
> I imagine the American companies do high-end Ti work -- M1 Abrams Main
> Battle Tanks, for example.
>
>> Can I find American made cheap plastic junk? No. Can I find bicycles,
>> cars,
>> motorcycles, appliances, and electronics not made in China. Sure, and I
>> have.

>
> Careful the components are out-sourced and actually made in China! The
> devil's in the details.


Not my Nissan. Japanese parts, American parts, made in Tennessee by
rednecks. Can I vouch for every single part of every thing I own? Of course
not. But every little bit helps.

>> If the sticker says "Made in Taiwan", then that's the deal. They're all
>> made
>> at the same factories, anyway.

>
> Damn, I'm surprised you trust a "Made in Taiwan" sticker over
> Airborne's "Made in USA" sticker.


Airborne admits their frames are made in China. My Ibex is made in Taiwan:
http://www.ibexbikes.com/About_IBEX.html

We established our production in Taiwan, R.O.C. at a time when many
manufacturers are migrating to mainland China in search of cheaper labor and
production costs. From much experience in the manufacture of other products
we were shy of the inconsistent quality sometimes created by these
cost-cutting measures. Taiwan has a long and reputable history in the
bicycle industry with many highly skilled craftsmen experienced at all
phases of bicycle production.



My Schwinn Peloton was also made in Taiwan. Of course, it's a pre-Pacific
buyout Schwinn. My Mongoose MTB was made in Taiwan a LOOOONG time before
China entered the game. And, naturally, my Gunnar was made in Wisconsin from
American made True Temper steel. My conscience is clear.
 
G

Gooserider

Guest
"Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "Gooserider" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>> You want to be comfortable? Here you go:
>>
>> http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly-cross-check.html#complete
>>
>> Steel frame, fat tires, relaxed geometry. Fender-able, rack-able.
>> Heavier than your 19 pound Chinese wonder machine, but comfortable
>> enough for you to actually ride the thing. You ride the Surly enough
>> and you'll easily drop the 6 pounds of weight difference. Plus, the
>> Surly is a better fit for NYC, unless you think the gossamer wheels on
>> the Airborne are going to handle potholes and curbs well.
>>
>>
>>

>
> Wow...now you're talkin'. I thought the days of a quality steel bike for
> under $1000 were long gone. It's like a Rivendell Atlantis's kid brother,
> right down to the uber-cool bar-end shifters.


Surlys are cool. Lots of messengers use them. The component spec on that
package could be better, but one can always upgrade.
 
R

RonSonic

Guest
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 15:02:42 -0400, The Wogster <[email protected]> wrote:

>RonSonic wrote:
>>>Ah, yes, conventional wisdom. That's why it's so hard for me to find a
>>>"comfort bike" with "performance" specs!

>>
>>
>> Sorta like finding a luxury car with sports car performance and minivan cargo
>> capacity.

>
>Actually it's easier to do with a bike, but it would need to be custom
>built, start with a light frame, preferably one with fittings for
>fenders and racks, add a carbon or Ti fork, then build up the way you
>want from there. Bike components are all highly interchangable, so it
>should be easy enough to build a comfort bike, using some racing
>components, some MTB components, and add a Brooks saddle for comfort.


Yep, as an example there are a lot of "cross" bikes out there that'll never be
used in competition. Also seeing a lot of rigid mountain bikes sporting slicks
and fenders.

Ron
 
R

RonSonic

Guest
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 20:12:37 GMT, "Bill Sornson"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>NYC XYZ wrote:
>> Bill Sornson wrote:

>
>>> NYC, Just frigging go to a shop already; why is that so distasteful
>>> for you?!?

>>
>> Well, I guess I'd be pissing off folks there, too -- so why not come
>> here and do it? =)
>>
>> Also, I'd feel obligated to buy something for all the questions I'd
>> pepper them with. Besides, they'd have other customers coming and
>> going...etc.

>
>One last try.
>
>The idea is to buy a bike. You go to a shop, tell them about the kind of
>riding you do (or want/plan to do), and listen to their advice. You try out
>what they have to offer. Maybe something really grabs you; maybe nothing
>really does. Repeat a few times at /various/ bike shops, and either pick
>something or wait a while longer.
>
>Or, just buy one of those Airbornes and make it work.
>
>Then go ride.
>
>Out, BS


I'll believe it when I see it. You're just too stubborn.

Ron
 
R

RonSonic

Guest
On 23 Jul 2005 11:20:46 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Bill Sornson wrote:
>>
>>
>> As I said 12 hours ago, "Dude, you're all over the map."

>
>Stream-of-consciousness tends to be like that...and no, I can't
>organize my thoughts 'cause I have no idea of the "territory" here so
>questions just come out -- like when you're doing something for the
>first time and you just do whatever instead of in any systematic way
>because you haven't any theory in you by which to organize your
>actions....
>
>> Bill "OK, this time I /really/ give up!" S.

>
>Thanks for playing!
>
>Seriously, I figured I'd get that response from a bike shop, too, so
>that's why I'm here. =)


They get paid for it.

Ron
 
J

Jasper Janssen

Guest
On 23 Jul 2005 11:16:40 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Well, I guess I'd be pissing off folks there, too -- so why not come
>here and do it? =)


That's nice. Now that you've admitted that your primary motivation for
posting is annoying us, I think i wont' be reading any more of your posts.

You are the weakest link, goodbye.


Jasper
 
J

Jasper Janssen

Guest
On 23 Jul 2005 06:32:01 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Does it seem suspicious he also deals in
>used bikes, on the side, on his own?).


Only inasmuch as he's probably fencing stolen goods. If that doesn't
bother you, they're probably pretty good value for money.

Jasper
 
R

RonSonic

Guest
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 16:39:12 GMT, "Gooserider" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> Vis-a-vis the price, anyway -- $1,300 for 19-lb. bikes!!
>>
>> http://www.airborne.net/eready/janette/Store/05LXTI-special.asp
>>
>> http://www.airborne.net/eready/janette/store/05TB-special.asp
>>
>>

>You want to be comfortable? Here you go:
>
>http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly-cross-check.html#complete


That's a pretty damn cool bike. One could quibble about some of the component
choices but no disagreeing that they're a great bang for the buck package. A
bunch of upgrades and this'll cost as much as what the OP was looking at.

>Steel frame, fat tires, relaxed geometry. Fender-able, rack-able. Heavier
>than your 19 pound Chinese wonder machine, but comfortable enough for you to
>actually ride the thing. You ride the Surly enough and you'll easily drop
>the 6 pounds of weight difference. Plus, the Surly is a better fit for NYC,
>unless you think the gossamer wheels on the Airborne are going to handle
>potholes and curbs well.


Good points all.

Ron
 
R

RonSonic

Guest
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 22:33:41 GMT, Jasper Janssen <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 23 Jul 2005 06:32:01 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Does it seem suspicious he also deals in
>>used bikes, on the side, on his own?).

>
>Only inasmuch as he's probably fencing stolen goods. If that doesn't
>bother you, they're probably pretty good value for money.


Why assume they're stolen?

Ron
 
M

Mykal

Guest
"RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 22:33:41 GMT, Jasper Janssen

<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On 23 Jul 2005 06:32:01 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]>

wrote:
> >
> >>Does it seem suspicious he also deals in
> >>used bikes, on the side, on his own?).

> >
> >Only inasmuch as he's probably fencing stolen goods. If that

doesn't
> >bother you, they're probably pretty good value for money.

>
> Why assume they're stolen?
>
> Ron
>


Because of the company the seller keeps?

/*mykal*/
 
G

Gooserider

Guest
"RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 16:39:12 GMT, "Gooserider"
> <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]
>>> Vis-a-vis the price, anyway -- $1,300 for 19-lb. bikes!!
>>>
>>> http://www.airborne.net/eready/janette/Store/05LXTI-special.asp
>>>
>>> http://www.airborne.net/eready/janette/store/05TB-special.asp
>>>
>>>

>>You want to be comfortable? Here you go:
>>
>>http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly-cross-check.html#complete

>
> That's a pretty damn cool bike. One could quibble about some of the
> component
> choices but no disagreeing that they're a great bang for the buck package.
> A
> bunch of upgrades and this'll cost as much as what the OP was looking at.


Since I would automatically add clipless pedals(maybe a combo
clip/platform), a rack, and fenders, it would reach $1200 in no time.
However, a fifty dollar upgrade here and there amortized over time would be
no big deal. I think I would upgrade the derailleurs and crank(go to Deore
or even 105, maybe a Sugino crankset). Other than that, it would be OK for
years.

>>Steel frame, fat tires, relaxed geometry. Fender-able, rack-able. Heavier
>>than your 19 pound Chinese wonder machine, but comfortable enough for you
>>to
>>actually ride the thing. You ride the Surly enough and you'll easily drop
>>the 6 pounds of weight difference. Plus, the Surly is a better fit for
>>NYC,
>>unless you think the gossamer wheels on the Airborne are going to handle
>>potholes and curbs well.

>
> Good points all.
>
> Ron


There's a reason Surlys are big with messengers. I think the Cross-Check
complete bike package is just about the best deal going. Plus---it doesn't
have a flashy paint job, nor does it scream "TITANIUM PLEASE STEAL ME".
Wait, any bike screams that in NYC....
 
G

Gooserider

Guest
"Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> NYC XYZ wrote:
>> Bill Sornson wrote:

>
>>> NYC, Just frigging go to a shop already; why is that so distasteful
>>> for you?!?

>>
>> Well, I guess I'd be pissing off folks there, too -- so why not come
>> here and do it? =)
>>
>> Also, I'd feel obligated to buy something for all the questions I'd
>> pepper them with. Besides, they'd have other customers coming and
>> going...etc.

>
> One last try.
>
> The idea is to buy a bike. You go to a shop, tell them about the kind of
> riding you do (or want/plan to do), and listen to their advice. You try
> out what they have to offer. Maybe something really grabs you; maybe
> nothing really does. Repeat a few times at /various/ bike shops, and
> either pick something or wait a while longer.
>
> Or, just buy one of those Airbornes and make it work.
>
>

To be fair, Airborne does appear to have a pretty detailed online fit
program. Whether a buyer will end up with a racer-type fit or a real world
comfortable fit is unclear, but they do measure inseam, torso length, and
arm extension. They also set buyers up with different crankarm lengths
according to inseam, and provide differing handlebar widths. That's pretty
thorough. I would imagine even a newbie could get a pretty good fit this
way. I'm certain a buyer could inform Airborne of the desire to get the bars
up. I would rather spend this kind of money at an LBS, though.
 
G

Gooserider

Guest
"NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Thanks for the ref -- I've never heard of "tensioned leather"...sounds
> like a throw-back to yesteryear!
>
> The more this thread develops, the more I'm getting a sense of that
> "blind men describing different parts of an elephant"...where I'm all
> three blind men!
>
> Sigh...gotta learn with some $$$ what saddles suit me, I see. So I'm
> gonna get a Serfas RX and one of these leather thinggies, too, and see!
>

I have to agree with the Brooks B17 recommendation. Even though I'm
fortunate to never have ridden an uncomfortable saddle---I have an el cheapo
Velo on my town bike, a Performance house cheapo on my MTB, and Brooks B17s
on both road bikes. I used a Specialized Body Geometry for years, and it was
one of the gimmicky saddles with the cutout. Very comfortable. The Brooks,
however, become YOURS once they're broken in. Break-in doesn't take as long
as you would imagine, and the saddle is still comfortable before. They're
great, they're handmade, and they look fantastic.
 
G

Gooserider

Guest
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>>>Get yourself into a LBS and have them

> find you something that is just right for you. They can swap out stems
> and handlebars and seats (for a small upcharge usually, sometimes
> they'll do even trades) and get it dialled in. Mail-order shops can't
> do
> that for you. <<
>
> There are no small charges at an lbs. They will want $30 for a stem
> you can get for<$10 online. LBS have crappy return policies. Order
> saddles online then you can return them . Or get a Brooks B17 and be in
> bliss. I wouldnt hesitate to buy a bike online.


I have bought online and got a good result. I knew my size and exactly what
I wanted, and I'm a capable wrench. If somebody is lacking those
qualifications, then an LBS would be a good idea. I did have my LBS build my
new bike, but I bought a bunch of parts myself. The shop owner showed me his
QBP catalog, and I beat his prices on the drivetrain components and brakes.
I got my handlebar from Rivendell, since it's their bar. Everything else I
got from the shop, and they gave me 10% off accessories. They were able to
beat everybody's price on my fenders and rack, too.
 
G

Gooserider

Guest
"NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> RonSonic wrote:
>>
>>
>> "In some distant land it is possible that bicycle seats are made out of
>> rainbow
>> and stuffed with cloud. In this world it's easier to just get used to
>> something
>> hard."

>
> Ah, straight out of the '80s Charmin commercial!
>
>> Heres the deal, upright position puts more weight on your ass it also
>> forces
>> your legs around the saddle at an awkward angle unless you set the seat
>> too low.
>> Which puts yet more weight on your ass and kills your pedalling
>> efficiency.
>> That big sofa-like saddle will require that you set it low.
>>
>> There is no reason for a saddle like that to be light. It simply cannot
>> be fast
>> anyway.

>
> Ah, yes, conventional wisdom. That's why it's so hard for me to find a
> "comfort bike" with "performance" specs!
>

Really? Here are some:

Trek Pilot series:

http://www2.trekbikes.com/Bikes/Road/Performance_Road/Pilot/Index.php

Trek Comfort Road series:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/Bikes/Road/Comfort_Road/Index.php

Gunnar Sport:(my recommedation)

http://www.gunnarbikes.com/sport.php

Specialized Sequoia:

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?sid=05Sequoia

Jamis Ventura Sport:

http://www.jamisbikes.com/bikes/05_venturasport.html

And, of course, Rivendell(possibly the origins of comfort road bikes)

http://www.rivbike.com/html/bikes_rambouilletframes.html

Those choices are but a handful. There are far more. Have fun!
 
D

di

Guest
"Gooserider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>
> My Schwinn Peloton was also made in Taiwan. Of course, it's a pre-Pacific
> buyout Schwinn. My Mongoose MTB was made in Taiwan a LOOOONG time before
> China entered the game. And, naturally, my Gunnar was made in Wisconsin
> from American made True Temper steel. My conscience is clear.
>
>

I have 4 Cannondales & 1 Rans, all are American made frames, just wish I
could say the same about the components.
 
G

Gooserider

Guest
"di" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Gooserider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>
>> "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>
>>
>> My Schwinn Peloton was also made in Taiwan. Of course, it's a pre-Pacific
>> buyout Schwinn. My Mongoose MTB was made in Taiwan a LOOOONG time before
>> China entered the game. And, naturally, my Gunnar was made in Wisconsin
>> from American made True Temper steel. My conscience is clear.
>>
>>

> I have 4 Cannondales & 1 Rans, all are American made frames, just wish I
> could say the same about the components.

You really have to respect Cannondale. They've always made their frames in
the US, even the "entry level" ones. That's great. Now they do have their
carbon frame made in Taiwan, but they're not in financial shape to invest
big bucks in domestic carbon production. When getting parts together for my
Gunnar, it was impossible to spec an all-American bike. My frame, fork, and
bottle cages are US made. The rest are Japanese, British, Italian, German,
and Taiwanese. But NO CHINESE. :)
 
D

Dane Jackson

Guest
In rec.bicycles.misc RonSonic <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly-cross-check.html#complete

>
> That's a pretty damn cool bike. One could quibble about some of the component
> choices but no disagreeing that they're a great bang for the buck package. A
> bunch of upgrades and this'll cost as much as what the OP was looking at.


Unless you really object to bar-cons I don't really think it needs much
upgrading. The wheels were a little underspec'ed for me, but I got some
miles out of them before I destroyed them. The rear derailleur got toasted
by a broken chain and replaced with an Ultegra I had lying around. Who
really cares what spec the front derailleur is on a double? The only
reason I'd want to replace it is if I want to pop on a granny ring and
turn it into a triple for touring or something.

I've put about 11000 miles on mine in the last 1.5 years or so. It's a
heck of a lot better than my old Giant OCR-2.

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade
themselves that they have a better idea.
-- John Ciardi