How do you get by with a useless college degree?

[Yojimbo_]

How nice. I guess that means there are fields that aren't worthy of study. You should share with us your amazing ability to be able to read the future and see what sort of income someone is going to make based on what they studied in college.

I guess everyone should follow your lead, after all an education is only about how much money it'll earn, right?

Everyone is free to follow their head, but why should I pay for it?

Which is more valuable to society, someone with a degree in comparitive religion, or someone with a degree in electrical engineering? If comparitive religion is your thing, good, just go pay for it yourself.

In fact, if everyone had to bear the cost of education themselves, I bet we'd have quite a few more people graduating with skills that would actually make them some money.

Now let's get into a debate about the relative merits of capitalism.

 

[alienator]

Everyone is free to follow their head, but why should I pay for it?

Because you're a member of your society, and your society has elected to pay for it. Sucks to be you, don't it?

Pray tell....what is your degree in, cupcake?

People like to pretend that they know what is valuable and what isn't. For example it's common for scientists and engineers to wonder why anyone would want a marketing degree or some degree in humanities. However, such a thought only happens because said people are clueless to what someone can actually do with such a degree. The fact is that if a degree is worthless, then the department giving that degree will not, after a while, have many people enrolling in that degree program, and that department will have to eventually ax that degree. That there are still people all over the country getting degrees in Poli Sci, History, Sociology, Women's Studies, and etc. means that people are finding work with those degrees. To think that you can't be employed and use such degrees is the acme of stupidity. To think as such demonstrates how little understanding someone has of the needs of societies in general.

 

[oldbobcat]

Try substitute teaching until your ship comes in.

It's interesting that our leaders in education and politics keep stressing the importance of a college education while all the good jobs for the college educated are going overseas. It's hard for me to sell young people on college when the only jobs they see in their local papers are for cooks, waiters, mechanics, light manufacturing, meat packing, and farm hands.

I tell kids who aren't gung-ho on college to look at trade programs--surveying, construction, mechanics, and that sort of thing. Things that have to be done on location.

 

[Yojimbo_]

Because you're a member of your society, and your society has elected to pay for it. Sucks to be you, don't it?

Pray tell....what is your degree in, cupcake?

People like to pretend that they know what is valuable and what isn't. For example it's common for scientists and engineers to wonder why anyone would want a marketing degree or some degree in humanities. However, such a thought only happens because said people are clueless to what someone can actually do with such a degree. The fact is that if a degree is worthless, then the department giving that degree will not, after a while, have many people enrolling in that degree program, and that department will have to eventually ax that degree. That there are still people all over the country getting degrees in Poli Sci, History, Sociology, Women's Studies, and etc. means that people are finding work with those degrees. To think that you can't be employed and use such degrees is the acme of stupidity. To think as such demonstrates how little understanding someone has of the needs of societies in general.

Cupcake? Condescending, but somehow not surprising. You have a nickname to live up to I suppose.

If said degree is indeed useless, the department offering it will not die, because it is heavily supported by taxpayer money. And there are many people out there who would be happy to receive that degree because it is in something that interests them. But you miss the point.

I'm saying that if everyone had to pay a larger fraction (maybe even the full cost) of the degree themselves, the distribution of degrees across the sciences, arts, and humanities will change. It will change because students cannot afford to undertake such a large debt with little chance of paying it back. The debate then comes down to a discussion of whether or not this is better for society. I think it would be better but others will think it worse.

The main thing one acquires with a degree, at least in my world view, is the ability to think (and hopefully write) in an organized manner. This skill is transferable, so even those folks with degrees in subjects I feel are useless have useful skills - but it will be tough to convince someone to hire you with a theology degree when there are better candidates around.

 

[alienator]

Cupcake? Condescending, but somehow not surprising. You have a nickname to live up to I suppose.

No more condescending than you are toward people whose degrees you don't approve of. Yet, no so simple--as you--to think that a screen name is a tell all clue.

If said degree is indeed useless, the department offering it will not die, because it is heavily supported by taxpayer money. And there are many people out there who would be happy to receive that degree because it is in something that interests them. But you miss the point.

Nah, I didn't miss the point. You miss the point. What people study isn't your choice. Never has been and never will be.

I'm saying that if everyone had to pay a larger fraction (maybe even the full cost) of the degree themselves, the distribution of degrees across the sciences, arts, and humanities will change. It will change because students cannot afford to undertake such a large debt with little chance of paying it back. The debate then comes down to a discussion of whether or not this is better for society. I think it would be better but others will think it worse.

Well, princess, the case here in the US is that, in general, we have to pay for our own educations. Our government doesn't believe that education is a worthwhile thing. Comparitively little is covered by federal grants, state or local grants, or even private grants. A growing majority of the bill is being paid for by loans borne by the student. And those caps on those loans haven't even kept pace with the cost of living, so that now, more and more students are hitting loan caps before their educations are done. And guess what? There are still plenty of English, History, Poly Sci, African Studies, and Musicology majors. And we need 'em all. Despite what you believe, each degree brings unique skills. You can only train someone to do someone else's job to a limited degree. If you've seen otherwise, then you haven't been exposed to many different disciplines in the work place.

I'd go so far as to wager that the world needs far more people majoring in the humanities and far fewer people majoring in marketing, finance, and management

The main thing one acquires with a degree, at least in my world view, is the ability to think (and hopefully write) in an organized manner. This skill is transferable, so even those folks with degrees in subjects I feel are useless have useful skills - but it will be tough to convince someone to hire you with a theology degree when there are better candidates around.

That is a part but only one part of a degree. That in no way means the rest of the degree--which is the majority--is transferrable.

As for your job hunting theologist, it is his or her problem if they're looking for jobs that don't play to their strengths, education, or skills. We do not live in a one dimensional job world.

Just because you think some degrees are useless only means that you have no idea what jobs there are for said degrees. It only means that your view of the job marketplace isn't that broad. Societies shouldn't be constrained to narrow views.

 

[ryanspeer]

I have a 2-yr degree from a local Community College and make the SAME amount of money as a friend with not just one, but TWO bachelor degrees from University of Washington, time spent studying at Harvard (yes, Harvard), etc. And for the record I make a nice healthy salary.

He constantly gives me grief about not only having grown up as a home school student, but having only a CC education. I remind him that not only did I have far suprior grades growing up than he did, but with all his education and diplomas all he has are comparitively worthless bragging rights. If you base the "usefulness" of a college degree on how much it nets you in income down the road, his was a waste of time (and money).

He seriously doesn't get it.

 

[Pendejo]

Here's my take on all this. (My qualifications: four advanced degrees, including Ph.D., in both humanities and science, and five years teaching in university.)

A humanistic education is something you can get quite nicely on your own, by reading. If you are going to spend four or more years in college, which is expensive in both time and money, you increase your chances in life by studying something more technical and getting "certified" with a degree in it.

I'm not saying one is more important than the other.

 

[willocrew]

If useless here refers to an inability to secure a well paying job, then yes I would agree that a degree that enables a person to acquire an exclusive licence, would be more useful than a general degree like say Arts.

I wouldn't think this advantage is limited to the specific industry the degree is associated to. One such example is Law.

However, there's also such a thing as being "overqualified". Firms may be unwilling to hire a person "too qualified" as they may be bounded to have to pay the worker a higher salary for the simple reason of his qualifications.

 

[Bob Ross]

I'm saying that if everyone had to pay a larger fraction (maybe even the full cost) of the degree themselves

What planet do you live on?!?! I've... oh, wait, I see: Canada. Nevermind.

FWIW, I paid the full cost of both my Bachelor's and Master's degrees, and I'm not that unusual amongst my circle of peers. Maybe ya gots it different up North?

 

[QCTony]

I have no degree and no golden spoon. While I wont knock someone for furthering ther education. One does need some form of income to survive. Thus college educated burger flippers. I got my ed in the military. In the tech fields your DD214 will get you farther than a deploma any day. Its called experience. Somethings can never be taught in a classroom. I am never impressed by a deploma. I am impressed by ones character and deeds. I find most academia to be some what arrogant and unpractical. You dont need a deploma to have a degree on life. A deploma is what it is, paper and ink.You better have the exsperience to back it up. My exsperience got me my home and supports my riding habit. I need nothing more.

 

[El Loto]

I'm a 1st year Politics and International Relations man. I think there are plenty of possibilities with this course. NGOs, Charities, MNCs, all outwith Government.

 

[El Loto]

I have no degree and no golden spoon. While I wont knock someone for furthering ther education. One does need some form of income to survive. Thus college educated burger flippers. I got my ed in the military. In the tech fields your DD214 will get you farther than a deploma any day. Its called experience. Somethings can never be taught in a classroom. I am never impressed by a deploma. I am impressed by ones character and deeds. I find most academia to be some what arrogant and unpractical. You dont need a deploma to have a degree on life. A deploma is what it is, paper and ink.You better have the exsperience to back it up. My exsperience got me my home and supports my riding habit. I need nothing more.

Best not to pigeon hole all students and academics. It is true that some people regard themselves as something special because they've gone to or are at University. I know some people who have changed after going away but I'd like to think I'm the same person. Diplomas however, I can imagine, must take hours of hard graft and I would regard one as an achievement to be proud of, not a piece of paper.

Please don't use the "degree in life" phrase, it's pretty cheesy.

 

[chainstretched]

You join the ranks of the academic proleteriate.

 

[mcr2c384]

I have no degree and no golden spoon. While I wont knock someone for furthering ther education. One does need some form of income to survive. Thus college educated burger flippers. I got my ed in the military. In the tech fields your DD214 will get you farther than a deploma any day. Its called experience. Somethings can never be taught in a classroom. I am never impressed by a deploma. I am impressed by ones character and deeds. I find most academia to be some what arrogant and unpractical. You dont need a deploma to have a degree on life. A deploma is what it is, paper and ink.You better have the exsperience to back it up. My exsperience got me my home and supports my riding habit. I need nothing more.

A flag is just a flag, a country is just a country, a person is just a person, they don't really mean anything. There is nothing underlying any of these things and completely expendable. I am just what I am, a formulation of sub atomic particles colliding at random. So are you. So is the computer in front of me and you, your home, my home, the bike you and I ride. The events that led up to you having a home and a bike. The only thing that seperates me from you and being a billy goat is the playing out of random actions by sub-atomic particles. You want to know what I need? I need truth, I need to know what is underlying the things that exist! what is it to Know? and How do you know that YOUR EXPERIENCE got you your home? How do you know at all? What does it mean to experience? What is concept? What is more real? you or the YOU that lives on after you die? Is there a YOU that lives on after you die? What is character?

This is Useful to me (not in making money, not in contributing to society in the form of taxes) in the development of who the hell I am so that I may better contribute to society in ways other than being a mindless drone.

Yojimbo hasn't even proven that there are useless degrees, he merely states that he doesn't like paying for them. Even though I still don't understand why he doesn't see that people can make societies better through studying psychology, philosophy, poly sci, chemistry, biology.

Why doesn't everyone just get business and marketing degrees or join the Army? What would the world be like? Hmmm....? Because that is all that is needed! clearly!

I can't imagine a world without right and wrong, individual choice, scientific advancement to cure illness, advancement in understanding of why things are, advancement in treatments to help people who are suffering. Just to name a few.

I'm not impressed by degrees either, I'm equally not impressed by someone being in the army. I'm not impressed by people with big houses or 6,000 dollar bikes. I know alot of college educated idiots aswell as alot of idiots that are in the army, Idiots that have huge houses and 6,000 dollar bikes. But it's not the case of all of them are idiots. Some of them are brite, intelligent and contribute back to society (with money or by benefitting it in some other way). It's a shame that people don't use to full advantage what opportunities they have in life. But Any degree, or any experience or any amount of money is as useless or usefull as the person who has it makes it. It's our individual choice.

 

[El Loto]

"It's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice"

That was on the Philosophy Corner section in the monthly club newsletter I get. Good way to live I'd say.

 

[benkoostra]

My statement at the beginning of the thread, that my degree in classics was a total waste was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. I studies Latin for five years, classical Greek for four. I also studied music composition, practiced piano several hours a day and played drumset in a bigband, as well as other groups. I had a lot going on that fulfilled me at the time, and continues to fulfill me. I had a passion for liberal studies.

Before I started the degree program, a professor told me that this form of study and its rigors would allow me to see culture, language, history and literature in color, where most people see it only in black and white. I have found that he was right. That I work for the government now, in a job that does not draw on that knowledge at all, is irrelevant. I can speak and understand several languages, read even more, and the world is indeed a technicolor place for me, which is an experience I suspect most if not all of my coworkers do not share. You can’t learn this stuff in business school.

And I’m a motherfucker on the drumset.



A liberal education is never a waste, except in the eyes of those whose vision is limited to the color of money. It’s the individual experience that is nurtured, not some collective abstraction like “the economy”.

 

[asterope]

i hardly think a degree in biology is useless in this day and age... at my campus you cant get a degree in 'biology', you can get a science degree majoring in any specialisation of 'biology' which is useful wherever you decide to take it.

for what its worth, im a 3rd year science undergrad, majoring in organic chemistry and biochemistry... and lately i have realised that the biochem part of my degree is going to get me into more interesting and profitable territory, both academically and financially. chemistry is the ducks nuts, but molecular biology rocks my world... and the worlds of several billion people if it keeps going the way its going.
australia is also a really good nation to be researching this kind of stuff in, as we are at the forefront of huge medical discoveries...

and no, we dont get a free education, just an ever increasing loan that we pay off for the rest of our working lives.
so if you think that sciences like biology are worthless wastes of taxpayers money, then i hope that you will never need to use the advances that biologists are discovering day by day.

 

[willocrew]

ind no, we dont get a free education, just an ever increasing loan that we pay off for the rest of our working lives..

Heck those HECS

 

[QCTony]

Best not to pigeon hole all students and academics. It is true that some people regard themselves as something special because they've gone to or are at University. .......
Please don't use the "degree in life" phrase, it's pretty cheesy.

I am not "pigeon hole'ing" all students. Just most of the instructors. They force you to buy their books. They feed you only there way of thought. I have to self educated to stay up with the advances in technology. Which I can not get at a college. I'm an engineer in broadcast television. There are very few schools that can keep up with this field due to the high cost of research. Its mostly done in the privite sector. The best schools for beginners in electronics is the military period. The hands on and disapline forgoes anything a college could teach. It not about how things work. It about what to do when they go wrong. You cant teach that in a college. There are plenty of fields that the college environment is needed. Medical and sciences being the biggest.. But here again medical personal have to continually self educate to stay abreast of the technology. Colleges are just a stepping stone, a beginning, a tool. There are only what you make of it. I went to college but never finished my degree. As I had to get on with my life. As I said, " I dont knock someone for getting a higher education". But I dont have time to listen to a professor indoctronate me on his way of life and thinking. I'll do the research myself.

 

[Scotty_Dog]

I have no degree and no golden spoon. While I wont (won't) knock someone for furthering ther (their) education. One does need some form of income to survive. Thus college educated burger flippers. I got my ed in the military. In the tech fields your DD214 will get you farther than a deploma (diploma) any day. Its (It's) called experience. Somethings (Some things) can never be taught in a classroom. I am never impressed by a deploma (diploma) . I am impressed by ones (one's) character and deeds. I find most academia to be some what (somewhat) arrogant and unpractical. You dont (don't) need a deploma (diploma) to have a degree on life. A deploma (diploma) is what it is, paper and ink. You better have the exsperience (experience) to back it up. My exsperience (experience) got me my home and supports my riding habit. I need nothing more.

Your post was so excessively laden with mistakes, it was actually painful to read. You desperately need spelling and grammar lessons. Without even considering sentence structure, I just corrected 13 errors. All of which can be taught in a classroom.

How's that for arrogant?