How do you train for hill when you have none?



RapDaddyo

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What you basically need is a way to simulate the resistance of a 6+% grade. You can do that with a trainer, and without elevating the front wheel. It's easier with a power meter, but you could use a HR monitor and increase resistance until your HR gets to 85+% of max at a cadence of 75-90 which is likely to be your climbing cadence.
 

limerickman

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Rap & Basso :

I had no idea that the topography was as pan flat as that !

Today, i cycled 60 miles to a couple of 10% climbs that last 4 miles each.
I am just looking at my notes here as I write : my cadence average on these climbs was 59rpm, using 42x23/25 (42x25 is my lowest gear on the inner ring).
Practically standstill.

I'm just thinking aloud here : but to replicate this low cadence (on the flat) I would have to use a 53x13 minimum (and even this gear is too light to replicate the cadence that I was using today).

Maybe doing intervals using a very big gear, with huge cadence might replicate hill climbs ?
Just a thought.
 

RapDaddyo

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frenchyge said:
Agree completely. Even though Kansas City is hilly enough (never-ending rollers) for decent training, I can't wait to go to Colorado next week. I'm so excited about the thought of grinding away for hours on end above the tree-line that I can barely contain myself. 12,000 feet, here I come. :D

RapDaddyo: Las Vegas has got to have some sweet climbs, no? Isn't Henderson, NV right at the base of the Sierras?
We have some great climbs. You can go West and there's a nice climb at Red Rock National Park (I did that today). You can go East and climb out from Hoover Dam to Boulder City. It's not quite Reno, but we have some good climbs. And good sprints, too. I like going down Las Vegas Blvd. at 6:30am and drag racing the garbage trucks as they clean up from the night before.
 

RapDaddyo

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frenchyge said:
RapDaddyo: Las Vegas has got to have some sweet climbs, no? Isn't Henderson, NV right at the base of the Sierras?
frenchyge, after you've tamed Colorado, come out here next year for the Death Ride. I'm not ready for it this year, but am planning on riding it next year.
http://www.deathride.com/
 

frenchyge

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limerickman said:
Maybe doing intervals using a very big gear, with huge cadence might replicate hill climbs ?
Just a thought.
I don't think it's as important to be cadence specific with the training. All you need is to hustle up to the ~300W (rider dependent, of course) range for 10-20 minutes, and that's not too hard to accomplish just riding on the hoods on a flat road.
 

RapDaddyo

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frenchyge said:
I don't think it's as important to be cadence specific with the training. All you need is to hustle up to the ~300W (rider dependent, of course) range for 10-20 minutes, and that's not too hard to accomplish just riding on the hoods on a flat road.
I agree with you, but for whatever reason I find it infinitely easier to do with a nice, long hill to climb. Maybe it's psychological, but I just find it easier to get my power number goals on climbs.
 

frenchyge

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RapDaddyo said:
frenchyge, after you've tamed Colorado, come out here next year for the Death Ride. I'm not ready for it this year, but am planning on riding it next year.
http://www.deathride.com/
Wow! That looks awesome! :eek: I'm only getting 120mi and 10.3K feet of lung busting climbing this year, but if 3 passes are good then 5 would surely be better.

I have family in San Diego, and that would be a great trip for next year. Is there organized support (ie, with SAG stops and food) or is it all self-supported? Thanks for that link, but my wife is probably going to hate you for it. :D
 

RapDaddyo

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frenchyge said:
Wow! That looks awesome! :eek: I'm only getting 120mi and 10.3K feet of lung busting climbing this year, but if 3 passes are good then 5 would surely be better.

I have family in San Diego, and that would be a great trip for next year. Is there organized support (ie, with SAG stops and food) or is it all self-supported? Thanks for that link, but my wife is probably going to hate you for it. :D
I haven't ridden it, but a weekend riding buddy rode it the last 2 years (he didn't finish the first year, but he made it all the way last year) and is planning to ride it this year. I'll ask him about the support. I do know that they close many of the roads! Pretty cool, huh?
 

limerickman

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frenchyge said:
I don't think it's as important to be cadence specific with the training. All you need is to hustle up to the ~300W (rider dependent, of course) range for 10-20 minutes, and that's not too hard to accomplish just riding on the hoods on a flat road.

300 watts !
That's impressive.

me ? I'm just an old bloke reduced to long distance stuff, these days.
The people who know about these things tell me that I'm a 250watt man.
For 5 hours plus, rides.

I stick to the old miles per hour : 17-19mph is my average speed for a 5 hour
session, over rolling terrain.
 

DanP

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basso97 said:
This is true but I do not often have a study head wind often enouth to train like this.

I did find somthing that may help me. I purchased a cheap baby trailer that does not let the wind out the back so that it acts as a parachute. I just got it it seams to help the simulation but I have not done enough works out to know if it works.

Two things I guess:

1) Cool idea on the baby trailer thing, at least for me in flat Florida, and where my regular loop 99% of the time has a predictable SE wind.

2) Not knowing your finances - (again living in flat FL) I bought a Computrainer a couple of months ago and have been doing one of their hill programs... it is just amazing stuff.

I'm talking > minute gains so far in formal (short) events.

I suppose it boils down to training to put down the power for a given time period - the head wind runs were ok but the ability to do that in a computrainer at will really nailed it for me.
 

Lonnie Utah

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frenchyge said:
Agree completely. Even though Kansas City is hilly enough (never-ending rollers) for decent training, I can't wait to go to Colorado next week. I'm so excited about the thought of grinding away for hours on end above the tree-line that I can barely contain myself. 12,000 feet, here I come. :D

RapDaddyo: Las Vegas has got to have some sweet climbs, no? Isn't Henderson, NV right at the base of the Sierras?
And don't forget about UT, we have some topography here too! :D

http://fermi.jhuapl.edu/states/maps1/ut.gif
 

frenchyge

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limerickman said:
300 watts !
That's impressive.

me ? I'm just an old bloke reduced to long distance stuff, these days.
The people who know about these things tell me that I'm a 250watt man.
For 5 hours plus, rides.

I stick to the old miles per hour : 17-19mph is my average speed for a 5 hour
session, over rolling terrain.
That's about right. You'd hustle up to ~300W and work hard for 10-20 minutes as part of an interval workout, then slow back down and rest for several minutes before doing it all over again. I wasn't saying that would be steady state power (although it might well be for some people).

Those are some pretty respectable 5-hr numbers.
 

Carrera

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Could you maybe hop on a train with the bike and travel out to the hills in an hours time? Here they let you put bikes on the train during off-peak hours.
If you can't do that you need to either relocate or turn your hand to sprinting on the flat.

basso97 said:
How do you train for hill when you have none?



I did the Horribly Hilly Hundreds a few weeks ago in Blue Mound Wisconsin. My legs felt good but I had to stop and rest, to lower my heart rate, on most of the hills. I live in NW Indiana and we have no hills. How do you train for hills with out hills. I would have to travel about 3 hours to find hills that take longer then 1 min to climb and those hills are not a problem.
 

basso97

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The closes Hills of any size are about 175 miles from my home. The RTA ( trains) does not go that far. I thank everyone for their sugestions, but getting to hills on a regular basis is not pratical I am not traveling 6 hours in my car every weekend.

Carrera said:
Could you maybe hop on a train with the bike and travel out to the hills in an hours time? Here they let you put bikes on the train during off-peak hours.
 

cduan

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i moved from boulder colorado to boston over a year ago. i still don't know where to go for a decent climb without having to drive for over an hour. i'd appreciate if guys in boston area can give me a few pointers..

RapDaddyo said:
I don't know about Indiana, but I grew up in West Texas and the closest thing we had to a hill was an interstate overpass, for hundreds of miles in every direction. I sympathize with the OP, because climbing is one of the great pleasures of cycling. I had the good fortune of learning to ride in New England and I now know how lucky I was to have so many hills in every direction.
 

RapDaddyo

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cduan said:
i moved from boulder colorado to boston over a year ago. i still don't know where to go for a decent climb without having to drive for over an hour. i'd appreciate if guys in boston area can give me a few pointers..
You're very fortunate. I think the Boston area is one of the world's great cycling areas. Of course, you're surrounded by beautiful, rolling terrain. If you want long climbs, I'd head into NH (the road to Peterborough, if I recall correctly). You can even get in a pretty good workout right around Boston, including the famous Belmont Hill (I climbed it every day), although not the 10-mile steady grade climbs. And, although it's a car trip, you've got Vermont and Maine close at hand. There are some awesome climbs in VT and ME. I loved riding out of Boston. A really beautiful, albeit flat, route is to go up to Marblehead and do a few loops around the island. Great harbor. The Cape is also great for cycling, albeit fairly flat. Check with the Northeast Cycling Club. http://www.northeastbicycleclub.org/home/ That's a racing club and they might have some rides posted on their website. Also check with the LBS Wheelworks. http://www.wheelworks.com/ It's the bike shop of a former riding buddy. Of course, all this talk of great hills to climb is just pouring salt in the wound for poor old Basso97. Sorry, Basso.
 

RapDaddyo

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frenchyge said:
Wow! That looks awesome! :eek: I'm only getting 120mi and 10.3K feet of lung busting climbing this year, but if 3 passes are good then 5 would surely be better.

I have family in San Diego, and that would be a great trip for next year. Is there organized support (ie, with SAG stops and food) or is it all self-supported? Thanks for that link, but my wife is probably going to hate you for it. :D
Hey frenchyge, I rode with my friend (Mike) today who has ridden the Death Ride. I asked him about the support, etc. He said that the stops and support were the best of any ride he has ever done. Apparently, the ride is a major fund raising event for the local communities (fire, police, local charities), and each puts on a SAG stop, with all the usual stuff plus sandwiches, soups and showers! I guess the communities try to out-do each other. And, as I mentioned before, they close most of the roads for the event. He also said that he has done the CO Triple Bypass and that he thinks the Death Ride is "much harder." He has been going out to Mt. Charleston near LV once a week to practice (6K feet of non-stop climbing). We did a 40 mile route today that I designed ("Climbers Delight") and he was motoring up the climbs at 300w+ so I think he is getting in pretty good shape. Sounds pretty brutal to me. I'm not ready for it this year, but maybe next year. Good luck in your CO event. Have a good ride and be safe. Paul
 

basso97

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I went out this last weekend and did the power type drills, and then I road my recumbent tandem on the 4th, I have the power at duration.

From ridding the 2 bike over the same hills I think my problem is gearing. On my road bike I did not have low enough gearing. My lowest gear was a 36-23. I think if I get a 27 on the back I can spin up the hills.

Thank everyone for the help.