How exclusive are TT and Hillclimbing?



ecandl

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Sep 20, 2006
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How exclusive are TT and Hillclimbing?

I started this year with a TT festival in early June. The first race was a Friday night 3 mile hillclimb into a strong head wind. I finished 6th in my CAT 5 group. 2nd race was a 15 mile rectangular course with strong winds and one short hill. I finished 12th of 16. 3rd race was a 5 mile out and back with the same winds and hill as the second - no aero equipment allowed. 2nd and 3rd races were Sat. I finished 11th in the 3rd race. I am 6'1" and 157lbs. I only have clip-ons for my road bike - no other aero equipment.

In July I raced a 15 mile race gaining 3800 feet. I ended up 11th out of 45 cat 5 and middle of cat 4.

I definitely enjoy hillclimbing better. What are the chances that I can see big improvements in TTing? Should I just accept the fact that TT isn't my strength and focus on hills? Thanks.
 
You're fairly light for your height.

Hillclimbing is about power/weight and TTing on a flat course is about power/drag.

So for the hillclimbs your low weight is helping out, whereas for the TTs it isn't really helping much.

So you'll get faster at TTs by increasing your power and/or reducing your drag...
 
ecandl said:
....What are the chances that I can see big improvements in TTing? .....
As the previous poster said, TTs are all about power to drag. Work on lowering your CdA (drag coefficient) and you'll go faster in TTs. Other than that they're pretty similar to hill climbs, good steady work at an even pace without the tactics and power variability of a road race or crit. If you do well on the hills you can do pretty well in TTs if you pay attention to aerodynamics and pacing.

Last season my best time in a 40K TT was 58:30 at 288 watts average power. I've struggled to hit my best power on race day this season but have still managed to take 2 minutes off my time for the distance with less power by working on my aero position. I've progressively lowered my aero bars using an adjustable stem and lowered both my CdA and my race times in the process. I didn't and wouldn't recommend doing it all at once, it takes a while to get used to riding a low position but I lowered it in steps over the last two months and my CdA based on field testing dropped from ~.28 to ~.23 which makes a big difference.

A power meter is great for field testing CdA, but you can substitute roll down tests or other methods to find a position that is more aerodynamic and reasonably comfortable.

Doing some of your L4 intervals on flat roads is great preparation for TTs as well. Nothing like doing regular 20 and 30 minute efforts near race pace to get you used to the pacing and mental aspects of time trialing. But don't ignore your position, it can make a huge difference and is worth some attention.

I don't know what clip on bars you're using, but you can get creative with some designs. For instance I mount my Profile T2+ bars upside down relative to the way they're shown in the product photos. IOW, the clamps hang below the base bar instead of sitting above it. I had to use the high risers and some extra padding to keep my forearms from rubbing on the base bar but it lowers the pads an inch or more from where they'd be with normal mounting and that makes a big difference. You can also play with the tilt of your clip on bars to lower your elbows which lowers your shoulders and back to reduce your frontal area. Little changes can make really big differences that show up in your times.

Good luck,
-Dave
 
ecandl said:
How exclusive are TT and Hillclimbing?

I started this year with a TT festival in early June. The first race was a Friday night 3 mile hillclimb into a strong head wind. I finished 6th in my CAT 5 group. 2nd race was a 15 mile rectangular course with strong winds and one short hill. I finished 12th of 16. 3rd race was a 5 mile out and back with the same winds and hill as the second - no aero equipment allowed. 2nd and 3rd races were Sat. I finished 11th in the 3rd race. I am 6'1" and 157lbs. I only have clip-ons for my road bike - no other aero equipment.

In July I raced a 15 mile race gaining 3800 feet. I ended up 11th out of 45 cat 5 and middle of cat 4.

I definitely enjoy hillclimbing better. What are the chances that I can see big improvements in TTing? Should I just accept the fact that TT isn't my strength and focus on hills? Thanks.
Never accept the fact that if something isn't your strength right now that you can't be good at it in the future. If you're a good climber who can timetrial life can be good!

In addition to the good points that Dave made, I'd invest in a skinsuit. The body produces way more drag than your frame and wheels do - so that's the place to start. A well fitting one is more aero, it's lighter and they're damned comfy. I used to like the Descente skinsuits and still have a 1992 USA Olympic team issue black "batman suit' with the gold ribbing upstairs.... Somewhere. LOL. If it doesn't require the skills of Hoodini to put on then it's too big. It's a skinsuit, it's supposed to be skin tight - and not skin like a 75 year old woman that spent most of her life in the sun with no sun cream!

For time trialing an aero helmet is a must but positioning is key. The back of the helmet must be close to the top of your back/lower neck when in the position that you ride in the most to be really effective. Also tape/glue your race number on to aid smooth airflow over your back. Numbers, like bad fitting aerohelmets, make very effective airbrakes. Stick your hand out of the car window at 25mph - now consider that the drag of a number that sticks up at the front. Not a nice thought is it?

Leave the cycling mitts in the bag unless you're riding a tricky course where you feel there may be a chance of falling off - or if the course or conditions mean that no mitts = blisters or sore hands.

If you need to carry a water bottle put it on the seat tube, not downtube.

That's the "easy stuff". I used to find that pacing is key for time trials. I was once light and fairly quick (5ft 11 and 140ish lbs) and even though I had a reasonable amount of power it took lots of concentration to maintain the power required to go fast - it was a "mental" thing. Learn to love the pain and it will become your friend. Being able to relax somewhat at your max sustainable pace helps enormously, IMHO, especially when trying to stay as low and compact as possible.

One thing that beginners often underestimate is the importance of a really good warm up prior to a short time trail. That 5 mile time trial probably deserved a warm up that was almost twice as long as the event itself - and towards the end at a pace equal to or greater than that of the time trial itself. Finish the warm up with enough time to zip up the skinsuit, put on your helmet, ride to the start and brush any dirt/grit off your tires before the start. Even though 5 miles is a pretty short event and should be ridden like a long pursuit, you don't want to nail the start too hard, even with the best warmup. Get within a couple of mph of your race pace pretty quickly and ease that last couple of mph over the next 30 to 60 seconds. You want to be hurting in the last mile - not the first.

Dave, just out of interest, what's your height and weight?
 
ecandl,

I think I know the races you are talking about and based on what you've said I checked out your times (live around Boise by chance?). Amazingly, our times are almost identical in the first 2 TTs. I rode my regular ol' road bike in all 3 races. I similarly did real well within my division in the hillclimb (I entered the tri division thinking I would be riding the same set-up as the rest of my group in 2 out the 3 races, but was wrong on that), but got dusted in the other two races. One racer in particular that I have always finished ahead of on the MTB scene (and on the hillclimb) went by me like I was standing still in the flatter TTs on his tricked-out tri bike, which is very similar to a TT bike. Those with TT bikes had a real advantage in the 2nd race. The third race could also be attributable to attrition, especially as it was your first race of the year. 3 TTs in less than 24 hours is a tough road.

Adam
 
AdamW said:
ecandl,

I think I know the races you are talking about and based on what you've said I checked out your times (live around Boise by chance?). Amazingly, our times are almost identical in the first 2 TTs. I rode my regular ol' road bike in all 3 races. I similarly did real well within my division in the hillclimb (I entered the tri division thinking I would be riding the same set-up as the rest of my group in 2 out the 3 races, but was wrong on that), but got dusted in the other two races. One racer in particular that I have always finished ahead of on the MTB scene (and on the hillclimb) went by me like I was standing still in the flatter TTs on his tricked-out tri bike, which is very similar to a TT bike. Those with TT bikes had a real advantage in the 2nd race. The third race could also be attributable to attrition, especially as it was your first race of the year. 3 TTs in less than 24 hours is a tough road.

Adam
You got the location right. I was on the same bike for each race and left my seat in the same position as well. With my decent time in the hillclimb I was unfortunate to be right in front of the strongest TT guys. I was mad when the first guy blew by me and went into depression when the 3rd guy passed me in the 2nd race. I haven't decided if I want to go through that experience again. I don't see myself spending a bunch on a tricked out bike and helmet and don't know if I want to do many TTs. I did the bike leg of a tri and moved my seat up and forward and I was more comfortable but I haven't experimented in such a way that I can determine if it made me any faster.

Are the results still posted anywhere? Are you doing the Bogus Basin Hillclimb? That looks like my last race of the season.

Ted
 
Dave's comments are right on. You can't cheat in climbing, it is all power to weight. So to go faster, you need to increase your power and/or decrease weight.

In an TT, you need to find how to cheat the wind (the wind that you create by moving through the air). Body position and equipment both play a big part, so start reading and doing lots of research. In a TT it is much easier to gain speed by reducing your drag than by increasing your power.

When I'm not in great shape I'll TT a 40k in about 57 minutes, and in good form in the 54's (with about 280 watts) simply because I am compact, aero, and small (5' 6", 130lbs).

So if you keep at it, and experiment with your position in small increments, you'll keep improving. It will take one year or two.

Best regards,

Michel
http://www.freetrainingplan.com
 

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