How fast is fast enough?



Volnix

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2011
2,883
281
63
Ok so I am not one of those extremely careful cyclists... I am not always using a helmet, since they are not required by law here anyway and they do feel a bit annoying, or hi-viz, or mirrors, or a shotgun for stray dogs etc...

Yesterday whilst I was cycling in my corrupted sub-tropical paradise on the way back of a 40km ride I had the most fantastic tail wind. I could easily keep a speed of 50km/h for the whole way back.

But.. not only I was in a high speed road with lots and lots of cars (the only road to go to this place I wanted), for some reason there are alot of Strava segments on that road too, but there were particles of cars thrown all over the road. Broken pieces of glass, loose gravel from parts to parts, and too many pot holes. So I was going slower then I could.

What speed do you think is "fast enough" for road cycling? I was once doing about 50+km/h on a good road and didn't feel scary at all, but yesterday even at 30km/h I got past a few parts where I thought afterwards that "if that was a bigger pot hole I could maybe lose my balance", since many of the potholes I was discovering at the last second prior to going past them.

Not only the potholes but another thing that annoys me lately. High speed trucks. Trucks are not exactly very aerodynamic and they produce a whole "black hole vortex" around them when they go past you. Some buses too. I get the feeling some times that trucks that go by kinda "suck" the bike towards their mass and then "push" it away. This yesterday almost made me to deliberately go out of the road at an emergency brake since I could not keep a straight line on the bike. If going faster I could also crash. Also on another occasion, a truck went past me, I tried to get away from it slightly moving to the right, but then I got marginally into the bus lane. If there was a bus there at that time things could get very scary...

Do you think that its worth it to cycle longer distances in such conditions? I cant go fast, its dangerous and its not fun at all to be honest. Its practically scary! Do you think it be better to switch to a trainer for fitness or something and just use... oh well... public transportation to go a place I like instead of the bike?

Thanks. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
 

CAMPYBOB

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
11,945
2,086
113
Move to The United States of America! We may have bears, but we also have some roads safe enough to enjoy cycling. Of course...there are those bears. And killer squirrels. And ghetto thugs. (But, we can also cycle armed!)

Seriously, it sounds like you need to find some safer secondary/tertiary roads to enjoy. Those still hold more than enough risk factor for me.

Did Greece spend billions on bike paths? Maybe you guys can spend some bail out euros on building some sweet cycling paths now that bribery and corruption has been vanquished! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

We do have roads that sound a lot like you are describing...mufflers...shock absorbers...pieces of suspensions components from cars...broken beer bottles...cans...pot holes...high traffic counts...no berms. I avoid them like the plague!
 

Volnix

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2011
2,883
281
63
Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

Move to The United States of America! We may have bears, but we also have some roads safe enough to enjoy cycling. Of course...there are those bears. And killer squirrels. And ghetto thugs. (But, we can also cycle armed!)

Seriously, it sounds like you need to find some safer secondary/tertiary roads to enjoy. Those still hold more than enough risk factor for me.

Did Greece spend billions on bike paths? Maybe you guys can spend some bail out euros on building some sweet cycling paths now that bribery and corruption has been vanquished! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

We do have roads that sound a lot like you are describing...mufflers...shock absorbers...pieces of suspensions components from cars...broken beer bottles...cans...pot holes...high traffic counts...no berms. I avoid them like the plague!
I am planning on moving actually. But not in the US... Tooo far! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif Plus, I might get shot by a ghetto thug-bear! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

Thats the thing, there was a huge paved area (at least compared with the rest of the parks here) where people could cycle, its about 7km in total which you could do like 4 times and get some work out but they closed it to make a new park with the money the last mayor didnt steal. The park will be ready just before the "Second Coming" in 5000 years or something. So now there are only roads and they are packed with cars...

So basically the only place that is safe to cycle (like without cars and good pavement) its just a 3km piece of cycling lane and eeeeverybody is on it. From 3yo in 3wheeled bikes to pentioners who just walk in just before you go past them. My last accident was there over 3 years ago now and I am not planning on having another one... To get outside the city you need to go through these dodgy roads for at least 10km to go to something remotely safe, which if there are not cars there will be dogs... I am not planning on cycling with a mace either...

Its actually better if they dont do anything at all... Jugding from the way they do stuff and from the way people treat them afterwards... Anything other then a cycling lane that doesnt have a wall built on its margins will be used for parking cars here and thats just sad.

Here is a fantastic "cycling lane" photo I captured a while ago when I started commuting here:




In the night that could be a [email protected]#$ of an accident... Plus there isnt much of a point going from there as sometimes mopeds cut through there and its usually parked with cars... Unless the police needs some money for something and they go out putting tickets on the cars...

I think I might try to go to a "professional" cycling team and ask if I can just enroll for the training... Maybe they know some nicer places or they might have a velo-drome somewhere or something like that...
 

alienator

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2004
12,596
310
0
Wow: "ghetto thug-bear". You'll fit right in with the forum's other bigot, BigotBob. You guys can go to klan meeting together, drink cheap beer, and ***** about how much it sucks for you that white folks are becoming a minority in the US. If you don't make it to the US, I'm sure you'll be able to find a white power group sympathetic to your myopia in your part of Europe.
 

GaryBPT

New Member
Mar 7, 2013
28
2
0
Originally Posted by Volnix .

Ok so I am not one of those extremely careful cyclists... I am not always using a helmet, since they are not required by law here anyway and they do feel a bit annoying, or hi-viz, or mirrors, or a shotgun for stray dogs etc...

Yesterday whilst I was cycling in my corrupted sub-tropical paradise on the way back of a 40km ride I had the most fantastic tail wind. I could easily keep a speed of 50km/h for the whole way back.

But.. not only I was in a high speed road with lots and lots of cars (the only road to go to this place I wanted), for some reason there are alot of Strava segments on that road too, but there were particles of cars thrown all over the road. Broken pieces of glass, loose gravel from parts to parts, and too many pot holes. So I was going slower then I could.

What speed do you think is "fast enough" for road cycling? I was once doing about 50+km/h on a good road and didn't feel scary at all, but yesterday even at 30km/h I got past a few parts where I thought afterwards that "if that was a bigger pot hole I could maybe lose my balance", since many of the potholes I was discovering at the last second prior to going past them.

Not only the potholes but another thing that annoys me lately. High speed trucks. Trucks are not exactly very aerodynamic and they produce a whole "black hole vortex" around them when they go past you. Some buses too. I get the feeling some times that trucks that go by kinda "suck" the bike towards their mass and then "push" it away. This yesterday almost made me to deliberately go out of the road at an emergency brake since I could not keep a straight line on the bike. If going faster I could also crash. Also on another occasion, a truck went past me, I tried to get away from it slightly moving to the right, but then I got marginally into the bus lane. If there was a bus there at that time things could get very scary...

Do you think that its worth it to cycle longer distances in such conditions? I cant go fast, its dangerous and its not fun at all to be honest. Its practically scary! Do you think it be better to switch to a trainer for fitness or something and just use... oh well... public transportation to go a place I like instead of the bike?

Thanks. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

I'm sorry, but forget about speed for cycling, that's down to preference, the big question here is why aren't you wearing a helmet?! Regardless of it being road legal to not wear one, I don't understand why you would put your own safety at risk for the sake of it being "a bit annoying". Yes, you could say that if you were hit by a truck and/or bus it wouldn't make much difference to your safety, but all other points it just doesn't make sense, it's absolutely ridiculous.
 

CAMPYBOB

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
11,945
2,086
113
"Wow:"

Still rent free!
Still low rent!

The place is feeling more like home all the time since I moved the big screen into the empty skull. We just watched DDV (good ride by Tommy V., Gatto skinned them at the line!). Don't worry, we'll pick the cheap 'bear' cans up tomorrow!

Da voices in his head!
 

CAMPYBOB

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
11,945
2,086
113
"...and get some work out but they closed it to make a new park with the money the last mayor didnt steal."

We would send you our last mayor of Deeetroit, but Kwame be in jail. Maybe we can send him over in 5 to 15...depending on good behavior in the Graybar Hotel.

"I am not planning on cycling with a mace either..."

A pistol is easier to stash in your jersey pocket! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

I have not seen a missing grate/drain cover in years, but many cities are now forced to bolt or weld them in place to keep the trash from stealing them and selling them to junkyards for the scrap money.

Can you throw your bike in a car and drive to a safer area to cycle?
 

Volnix

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2011
2,883
281
63
Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

"...and get some work out but they closed it to make a new park with the money the last mayor didnt steal."

We would send you our last mayor of Deeetroit, but Kwame be in jail. Maybe we can send him over in 5 to 15...depending on good behavior in the Graybar Hotel.

"I am not planning on cycling with a mace either..."

A pistol is easier to stash in your jersey pocket! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

I have not seen a missing grate/drain cover in years, but many cities are now forced to bolt or weld them in place to keep the trash from stealing them and selling them to junkyards for the scrap money.

Can you throw your bike in a car and drive to a safer area to cycle?
Our last mayor is in prison too... Maybe they know eachother. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif Ah no, I am not getting a pistol, even if I wanted one they are illegal here, unless you are a police officer or a vet or chased by terrorists or something (you need to prove that you are in danger). The most "explosive" device I can buy here is a 3-round limited shotgun, but nobody has guns here except the police and some people who go for hunting, but even they are not that many since the supermarket sells meat now too. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif Even for that, I have to go to the police for a background check and to a psychiatrist. Its probably easier to make a pipe-shotgun but if they catch me with something like that I will probably be growing "organic prison tomatoes" in the nearest prison work-camp to get the whole country out of the crisis, with our last mayor. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

They say that they do that here too. I was at a place that was left unguarded for a while and they even stole the mains electricity cables from the poles /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif to sell for scrap iron. They also stole all the windows, doors, anything made of metal. They also say that most of the bikes that get stolen here too are because of that and not because of their resale value. They say that they ship them as scrap to another country and they sell them there. There are lots of people walking around with improvised carts which go through stuff in the streets here. I think I need to move, this place is giving me depression... (and I see this thread going into the soapbox pretty soon too).

I dont have a drivings licence... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/redface.gif (its not alchohol related /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif, I never had one). But thats the way to do it probably. Or just make 3km laps in the night so people wont see me until I go insane! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif
 

Volnix

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2011
2,883
281
63
Originally Posted by GaryBPT .



I'm sorry, but forget about speed for cycling, that's down to preference, the big question here is why aren't you wearing a helmet?! Regardless of it being road legal to not wear one, I don't understand why you would put your own safety at risk for the sake of it being "a bit annoying". Yes, you could say that if you were hit by a truck and/or bus it wouldn't make much difference to your safety, but all other points it just doesn't make sense, it's absolutely ridiculous.
Strangely enough, all the times that I crashed with a bike, I never got hit in the head. It was always arms, legs and chest. Only time I had a head injury was when I got in a fight with a guy on a dodgy sidewalk...

I am not saying that helmets dont help at all, but they are not law enforced for bicycles. Maybe they make lots more sense in motorcycles. Quite alot of people here end up in hospitals from motorcycles.
 

An old Guy

Active Member
Feb 12, 2011
1,380
42
38
Originally Posted by Volnix .

What speed do you think is "fast enough" for road cycling?

Do you think that its worth it to cycle longer distances in such conditions? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
First and foremost: If you are falling off your bicycle for any reason, the first time you hit your head may be the last time you are able to ride.

But on to your question. I have ridden on roads where I did not not feel safe at any speed. My goal was to simply get off of them alive. Sometimes faster works. Sometimes slower works. So far I have survived.

If the rides are not fun, don't do them. There is little sense in dieing while having fun. Less sense if you are not having fun.
 

dhk2

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2006
2,214
74
48
75
Originally Posted by Volnix .

Strangely enough, all the times that I crashed with a bike, I never got hit in the head. It was always arms, legs and chest. Only time I had a head injury was when I got in a fight with a guy on a dodgy sidewalk...

I am not saying that helmets dont help at all, but they are not law enforced for bicycles. Maybe they make lots more sense in motorcycles. Quite alot of people here end up in hospitals from motorcycles.
Volnix, you seem like an intelligent guy. But now I have to wonder. Apparently you've never been on group rides when someone has crashed and head their head? I've seen it twice, with unconscious riders (friends) and split/shattered helmets. The ambulance drivers take the broken helmets so the ER doctors can quickly see what part of the head hit the pavement. Particularly for riders over 50 years of age, it doesn't take a lot of impact to cause permanent or fatal brain damage.

The evidence has been clear for decades now, helmets dramatically reduce head trauma and save lives for cyclists. You do wear a seat belt in your car, don't you?
 

GaryBPT

New Member
Mar 7, 2013
28
2
0
An old Guy said:
First and foremost: If you are falling off your bicycle for any reason, the first time you hit your head may be the last time you are able to ride. But on to your question. I have ridden on roads where I did not not feel safe at any speed. My goal was to simply get off of them alive. Sometimes faster works. Sometimes slower works. So far I have survived. If the rides are not fun, don't do them. There is little sense in dieing while having fun. Less sense if you are not having fun.
dhk2 said:
Volnix, you seem like an intelligent guy.  But now I have to wonder.  Apparently you've never been on group rides when someone has crashed and head their head?  I've seen it twice, with unconscious riders (friends) and split/shattered helmets.  The ambulance drivers take the broken helmets so the ER doctors can quickly see what part of the head hit the pavement.  Particularly for riders over 50 years of age, it doesn't take a lot of impact to cause permanent or fatal brain damage.   The evidence has been clear for decades now, helmets dramatically reduce head trauma and save lives for cyclists.   You do wear a seat belt in your car, don't you? 
To have your support here guys makes me happy, couldn't believe what I was reading.
 

alienator

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2004
12,596
310
0
dhk2 said:
Volnix, you seem like an intelligent guy.  But now I have to wonder.  Apparently you've never been on group rides when someone has crashed and head their head?  I've seen it twice, with unconscious riders (friends) and split/shattered helmets.  The ambulance drivers take the broken helmets so the ER doctors can quickly see what part of the head hit the pavement.  Particularly for riders over 50 years of age, it doesn't take a lot of impact to cause permanent or fatal brain damage.   The evidence has been clear for decades now, helmets dramatically reduce head trauma and save lives for cyclists.   You do wear a seat belt in your car, don't you? 
FYI, the days of ambulance drivers are long past. Now the people sitting in the ambulances are paramedics and or EMT's. You are right, however, in that S.O.P. is to check the helmet (be the rider a cyclist or a motorcyclist) quickly for damage and to transport the patient with the helmet. Big damage is a big warning, but even scuffs can indicate significant energy transfer to the cranial vault. Energy transfer is where the anti-helmet screw up their arguments. Helmets only decrease the energy transferred to the head. They don't dissipate it all, and they don't guarantee any particular outcome. They dissipate a lot more than skin, skull, and cerebrospinal fluid do on their own.
 

Volnix

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2011
2,883
281
63
Originally Posted by dhk2 .

Volnix, you seem like an intelligent guy. But now I have to wonder. Apparently you've never been on group rides when someone has crashed and head their head? I've seen it twice, with unconscious riders (friends) and split/shattered helmets. The ambulance drivers take the broken helmets so the ER doctors can quickly see what part of the head hit the pavement. Particularly for riders over 50 years of age, it doesn't take a lot of impact to cause permanent or fatal brain damage.

The evidence has been clear for decades now, helmets dramatically reduce head trauma and save lives for cyclists. You do wear a seat belt in your car, don't you?
Well, if I am that intelligent, why dont I live somewhere nicer with a hot babe next to me sipping coctails and cycling with a Tarmac SL4??? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

Anyway, I have been to quite a few group rides, mainly the recreational kind and I have indeed seen accidents. Only one was hospital-serious and it involved a shattered pair of glasses. I always wear a seat belt in a car yes. I have a helmet, they are just not that common here. When I cycle in group rides they are usually required so I wear one, but there are lots of people who dont.

I do wear a helmet, just not always. At least until now.

Originally Posted by An old Guy .


First and foremost: If you are falling off your bicycle for any reason, the first time you hit your head may be the last time you are able to ride.

But on to your question. I have ridden on roads where I did not not feel safe at any speed. My goal was to simply get off of them alive. Sometimes faster works. Sometimes slower works. So far I have survived.

If the rides are not fun, don't do them. There is little sense in dieing while having fun. Less sense if you are not having fun.
I think I wont do them... I found a small road somewhere in the city that looks ok-ish, so I will just try to have some work-out there. There were some other people cycling there too.

Thanks for your advice on helmets. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif