How fucked am I?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Tim Mullin, Jan 21, 2005.

  1. Tim Mullin

    Tim Mullin Guest

    A recent affliction of the eye has left me unable to ride my little bicycle
    out in the real world. Instead, the miles passing beneth my wheels have been
    virtual...in the basement, on the trainer. While, at this time of year, the
    trainer has some advantages, it sure does get boring. After an hour-and-a-
    half, my will to live starts to wane. The two-hour mark seems to be my
    psychic limit, and I have to take a break of an hour or so before getting
    back on. Usually, this time of year, I am getting in rides of three-and-a-
    half to five hours. Now, on a good day I get in three or four, and that's
    with an hour break in there. So the question is, from a training standpoint,
    how much difference is there between an uninterrupted four-hour ride, and
    four hours, with an hour break somewhere in there?
     
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  2. On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:38:07 GMT, Tim Mullin wrote:
    > So the question is, from a training standpoint, how much difference
    > is there between an uninterrupted four-hour ride, and four hours,
    > with an hour break somewhere in there?


    You're training much harder now (no coasting, no fresh air, rest between
    two "rides"). Beware of over-training.


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  3. musashi

    musashi Guest

    On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:44:33 +0100, Ewoud Dronkert
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:38:07 GMT, Tim Mullin wrote:
    >> So the question is, from a training standpoint, how much difference
    >> is there between an uninterrupted four-hour ride, and four hours,
    >> with an hour break somewhere in there?

    >
    >You're training much harder now (no coasting, no fresh air, rest between
    >two "rides"). Beware of over-training.



    Exactly what I was going to say.

    4 hours on a trainer is WAY more than 4 hours in the "real world".
    Even with an hour break.
     
  4. Peter Allen

    Peter Allen Guest

    "Tim Mullin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >A recent affliction of the eye has left me unable to ride my little bicycle
    > out in the real world. Instead, the miles passing beneth my wheels have
    > been
    > virtual...in the basement, on the trainer. While, at this time of year,
    > the
    > trainer has some advantages, it sure does get boring. After an hour-and-a-
    > half, my will to live starts to wane. The two-hour mark seems to be my
    > psychic limit, and I have to take a break of an hour or so before getting
    > back on. Usually, this time of year, I am getting in rides of three-and-a-
    > half to five hours. Now, on a good day I get in three or four, and that's
    > with an hour break in there. So the question is, from a training
    > standpoint,
    > how much difference is there between an uninterrupted four-hour ride, and
    > four hours, with an hour break somewhere in there?


    Chances are you're working harder than out on a ride, because there's
    nothing else to do. So probably overall effect is you're going to improve
    fitness. Watch your heart rate, though - if it starts to go up from normal,
    back off the training for a bit.

    Peter
     
  5. psycholist

    psycholist Guest

    "Tim Mullin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >A recent affliction of the eye has left me unable to ride my little bicycle
    > out in the real world. Instead, the miles passing beneth my wheels have
    > been
    > virtual...in the basement, on the trainer. While, at this time of year,
    > the
    > trainer has some advantages, it sure does get boring. After an hour-and-a-
    > half, my will to live starts to wane. The two-hour mark seems to be my
    > psychic limit, and I have to take a break of an hour or so before getting
    > back on. Usually, this time of year, I am getting in rides of three-and-a-
    > half to five hours. Now, on a good day I get in three or four, and that's
    > with an hour break in there. So the question is, from a training
    > standpoint,
    > how much difference is there between an uninterrupted four-hour ride, and
    > four hours, with an hour break somewhere in there?


    I've just started training again with a HRM and it confirms that those
    roller and trainer workouts are quite efficient. I don't necessarily
    believe the "calories burned" figure the HRM gives me, but I think it works
    on a relative basis for comparing workouts. I find that a 2 hour roller
    workout will burn about the same calories as a 3 hour road ride. I'm
    guessing a trainer workout would even exceed a roller workout.

    FWIW,

    Bob C.
     
  6. B Lafferty

    B Lafferty Guest

    "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Tim Mullin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >>A recent affliction of the eye has left me unable to ride my little
    >>bicycle
    >> out in the real world. Instead, the miles passing beneth my wheels have
    >> been
    >> virtual...in the basement, on the trainer. While, at this time of year,
    >> the
    >> trainer has some advantages, it sure does get boring. After an
    >> hour-and-a-
    >> half, my will to live starts to wane. The two-hour mark seems to be my
    >> psychic limit, and I have to take a break of an hour or so before getting
    >> back on. Usually, this time of year, I am getting in rides of
    >> three-and-a-
    >> half to five hours. Now, on a good day I get in three or four, and that's
    >> with an hour break in there. So the question is, from a training
    >> standpoint,
    >> how much difference is there between an uninterrupted four-hour ride, and
    >> four hours, with an hour break somewhere in there?

    >
    > I've just started training again with a HRM and it confirms that those
    > roller and trainer workouts are quite efficient. I don't necessarily
    > believe the "calories burned" figure the HRM gives me, but I think it
    > works on a relative basis for comparing workouts. I find that a 2 hour
    > roller workout will burn about the same calories as a 3 hour road ride.
    > I'm guessing a trainer workout would even exceed a roller workout.
    >
    > FWIW,
    >
    > Bob C.


    I have all I can do to stay on the trainer for an hour before the boredom is
    too much. What are you doing music or visually to make it palatable?
     
  7. gym gravity

    gym gravity Guest

    B Lafferty wrote:

    > I have all I can do to stay on the trainer for an hour before the boredom is
    > too much. What are you doing music or visually to make it palatable?
    >
    >

    the 5 or 10 times I rode indoors for more than an hour, I used rollers,
    and I used a radio on my favorite station. much better than a cd
    because you really don't know what songs are coming up, and there isn't
    the convenience of the music running out at the end of the cd for me to
    use as an excuse to get off the bike.

    I'd take 3 hours outside down to 15F over 1.5 hours indoors.
     
  8. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    B Lafferty <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I have all I can do to stay on the trainer for an hour before the boredom is
    > too much. What are you doing music or visually to make it palatable?


    I've been downloading Ewoud's cyclocross video and burning it to VCDs
    and DVDs. 'Cross is visually very intense, which helps a lot.

    The duration is good since the length of a 'cross race is about as
    much as I can take on the trainer.

    Bob Schwartz
    [email protected]
     
  9. B Lafferty

    B Lafferty Guest

    "gym gravity" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >B Lafferty wrote:
    >
    >> I have all I can do to stay on the trainer for an hour before the boredom
    >> is too much. What are you doing music or visually to make it palatable?

    > the 5 or 10 times I rode indoors for more than an hour, I used rollers,
    > and I used a radio on my favorite station. much better than a cd because
    > you really don't know what songs are coming up, and there isn't the
    > convenience of the music running out at the end of the cd for me to use as
    > an excuse to get off the bike.


    I've got a couple of one hour playlists that I can load into my MP3 player
    which I run on random selection.
    >
    > I'd take 3 hours outside down to 15F over 1.5 hours indoors.


    Amen (but make mine 32F)
     
  10. k.papai

    k.papai Guest

    For me it's 40 degrees limit and TV instead of radio.
    More than one hour seems unbearable inside.
    One hour on the trainer at max level is like a HILLY 29 mile, 90-minute
    ride to the ofice.

    -kjp
     
  11. Actually, the HRM will not be directly comparable indoor versus
    outdoor. Most people with power meters will tell you that their heart
    rate at a given power is considerably higher on the trainer than on the
    road, I've seen up to 20 bpm difference at aerobic intensity. This
    does not mean that you're burning more calories, it only means that
    your heart rate is higher. To me 200W for 2 hrs is 200W for 2hrs,
    regardless of where it was acheived, no points for trainer induced
    mental agony. I have no idea which one might give you greater benefit.

    Tim, if you want to maximize your benefit from the trainer workouts try
    focusing on doing intervals at your lactate threshold, in practical
    terms your 40km TT effort level. There's plenty info online from Dr.
    Andy Coggan and associates regarding how to structure it.

    Janek
     
  12. gym gravity

    gym gravity Guest

    B Lafferty wrote:

    >
    > Amen (but make mine 32F)
    >
    >


    I actually like it less than 32, no meltwater.
     
  13. B Lafferty

    B Lafferty Guest

    "k.papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > For me it's 40 degrees limit and TV instead of radio.
    > More than one hour seems unbearable inside.
    > One hour on the trainer at max level is like a HILLY 29 mile, 90-minute
    > ride to the ofice.


    To make the most of the hour you do have to ride with a HR monitor. I've
    been following the Freil method for building muscular endurance for time
    trials. Those workouts fit in well with one hour on the trainer. I usually
    begin with 20 min. on the NordicTrack which serves as a good warm up. It
    makes it easy to reach my target zone on the bike. All still boring as hell.
     
  14. musashi

    musashi Guest

    On 21 Jan 2005 13:33:18 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

    >Actually, the HRM will not be directly comparable indoor versus
    >outdoor. Most people with power meters will tell you that their heart
    >rate at a given power is considerably higher on the trainer than on the
    >road, I've seen up to 20 bpm difference at aerobic intensity. This
    >does not mean that you're burning more calories, it only means that
    >your heart rate is higher. To me 200W for 2 hrs is 200W for 2hrs,
    >regardless of where it was acheived, no points for trainer induced
    >mental agony. I have no idea which one might give you greater benefit.
    >
    >Tim, if you want to maximize your benefit from the trainer workouts try
    >focusing on doing intervals at your lactate threshold, in practical
    >terms your 40km TT effort level. There's plenty info online from Dr.
    >Andy Coggan and associates regarding how to structure it.
    >
    >Janek



    Actually, if you are wanting to measure the number of calories you are
    burning it would be more accurate to go by the HRM than W/hr. Neither
    is exactly correct but W/hr and actual personal output are subject to
    a number of variables. Including but not limited to the persons energy
    level, temperature, posture, dehydration etc...

    Most people don't change positions nearly as much indoors as outdoors.
    You end up not changing the muscles used as much. That changes your
    actual output and it's relationship to the W/hr and therefore can burn
    more or less calories in W/hr.

    Less breeze on a trainer means you are running hotter and burn more
    calories for the same W/hr. However, your heart rate should rise to
    due to incresed cardiac output at the blood goes to the skin for
    incresed core cooling.

    And how you could dehydrate on a trainer I don't know but anytime you
    do it's more caloric work for the same W/hr.

    Personally I find the sustained resistance necessary to get the 158
    bpm average I want for one hour is much harder(even with some standing
    and pounding) indoors than it is outdoors. Climbs, resting decents,
    head and tailwinds, it all varies nicely. Point being, I don't think
    HRMs are that good of a measure regarding caloric output either but it
    seems better to me than W/hr.

    I had hoped average MPH over a repeated loop would help me guage from
    day to day but wind and how tired I start seem to be to large of
    variables. If it's windy and I am already pooped from working all day
    I find 20mph much harder than 22mph on a calm day and being fully
    rested.

    Musashi
     
  15. Mark Fennell

    Mark Fennell Guest

    "musashi" wrote:
    > Actually, if you are wanting to measure the number of calories you are
    > burning it would be more accurate to go by the HRM than W/hr.
    > <snip>


    No way. But I do like your seemingly endless supply of unique salutations
    for Brian and Henry. I read your posts just to see if you've run out yet.
    Keep it up!
     
  16. On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:38:07 GMT, Tim Mullin <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >A recent affliction of the eye has left me unable to ride my little bicycle
    >out in the real world. Instead, the miles passing beneth my wheels have been
    >virtual...in the basement, on the trainer. While, at this time of year, the
    >trainer has some advantages, it sure does get boring. After an hour-and-a-
    >half, my will to live starts to wane. The two-hour mark seems to be my
    >psychic limit, and I have to take a break of an hour or so before getting
    >back on. Usually, this time of year, I am getting in rides of three-and-a-
    >half to five hours. Now, on a good day I get in three or four, and that's
    >with an hour break in there. So the question is, from a training standpoint,
    >how much difference is there between an uninterrupted four-hour ride, and
    >four hours, with an hour break somewhere in there?


    Four hours on a trainer, even if broken up with several breaks, is
    like eight hours on the road. It's also like an eternity. And also
    like a year or two off your life.

    JT


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  17. B Lafferty

    B Lafferty Guest

    "Mark Fennell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "musashi" wrote:
    >> Actually, if you are wanting to measure the number of calories you are
    >> burning it would be more accurate to go by the HRM than W/hr.
    >> <snip>

    >
    > No way. But I do like your seemingly endless supply of unique salutations
    > for Brian and Henry. I read your posts just to see if you've run out yet.
    > Keep it up!


    Whatever makes you happy. ;-)
     
  18. On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:44:24 -0500, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
    > Four hours on a trainer, even if broken up with several breaks, is
    > like eight hours on the road. It's also like an eternity. And also
    > like a year or two off your life.


    And it is murder on millions of unborn children.


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  19. On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:07:22 +0100, Ewoud Dronkert
    <[email protected]> wrote:


    >And it is murder on millions of unborn children.


    POTM!

    JT

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  20. psycholist

    psycholist Guest

    "B Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    >
    > I have all I can do to stay on the trainer for an hour before the boredom
    > is too much. What are you doing music or visually to make it palatable?


    I have a big old TV with about a 25 inch screen that sits about 3 feet in
    front of my roller setup. I got a really cheapo DVD/VCR combo unit and a
    set of computer speakers for very few bucks. When I get on the rollers and
    pop in a race tape or CD, I'm there. I have to be careful not to steer off
    the rollers when they're doing moto shots from behind the riders. I have a
    tape of the 2003 Amstel Gold where Vino won. There's a point a few kms from
    the finish where the road does these little dips and they're doing a camera
    shot from the moto behind Vino who's on a solo breakaway. You see Vino hit
    the dip and come up out of the saddle. Then the camera does it. Then I do
    it on the rollers and it's almost disaster.

    But it's a very cool setup. I've recorded lots of races and bought lots of
    race DVDs. I consider it an investment in my training.
    --
    Bob C.

    "Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
    T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)
     
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