How long should a $50 double-leg Swiss kickstand last?!

[Jay]

This is my second kickstand from these guys, and my patience is wearing
thin. Am I being unreasonable (which has happened)?!

http://tinyurl.com/2bcncy

Let me say at the outset; when this kickstand is new, it works perfectly,
and does exactly what it needs to do. It is a pleasure to use on my daily
commute, where a double-leg kickstand is essential to my feng shui.

The first one crapped out after 6 months. The retailer and manufacturer
(both) were prompt and helpful. They replaced the obviously defective
kickstand.

Nine months later, the replacement unit needs to be replaced. The kickstand
does not retract as it should. It nearly drags on the pavement. So I just
finesse it with my toe, and it then retracts to the midpoint. At least it is
not dragging on the ground. When the kickstand is new, it retracts fully. At
this point, the kickstand will not retract fully - this is why I tied it up,
for the purpose of this pic.

http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-drag.jpg

http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-midpoint.jpg

http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-retracted.jpg

I suspect, this kickstand is actually being made in China, not Switzerland.

End of rant and out of breath,

America (and Northern Europeans) First J.

 

[landotter]

On Dec 30, 1:50 pm, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
> This is my second kickstand from these guys, and my patience is wearing
> thin. Am I being unreasonable (which has happened)?!
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2bcncy
>
> Let me say at the outset; when this kickstand is new, it works perfectly,
> and does exactly what it needs to do. It is a pleasure to use on my daily
> commute, where a double-leg kickstand is essential to my feng shui.
>
> The first one crapped out after 6 months. The retailer and manufacturer
> (both) were prompt and helpful. They replaced the obviously defective
> kickstand.
>
> Nine months later, the replacement unit needs to be replaced. The kickstand
> does not retract as it should. It nearly drags on the pavement. So I just
> finesse it with my toe, and it then retracts to the midpoint. At least it is
> not dragging on the ground. When the kickstand is new, it retracts fully. At
> this point, the kickstand will not retract fully - this is why I tied it up,
> for the purpose of this pic.
>
> http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-drag.jpg
>
> http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-midpoint.jpg
>
> http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-retracted.jpg
>
> I suspect, this kickstand is actually being made in China, not Switzerland.
>
> End of rant and out of breath,
>
> America (and Northern Europeans) First J.

A rear triangle mount Greenfield should go superbly with your White
Power.

 

[MJP]

"Jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is my second kickstand from these guys, and my patience is wearing
> thin. Am I being unreasonable (which has happened)?!
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2bcncy
>
> Let me say at the outset; when this kickstand is new, it works perfectly,
> and does exactly what it needs to do. It is a pleasure to use on my daily
> commute, where a double-leg kickstand is essential to my feng shui.
>
Have you tried lubricating the spring mechanism?

MJP

 

[Jay]

"MJP" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> This is my second kickstand from these guys, and my patience is wearing
>> thin. Am I being unreasonable (which has happened)?!
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2bcncy
>>
>> Let me say at the outset; when this kickstand is new, it works perfectly,
>> and does exactly what it needs to do. It is a pleasure to use on my daily
>> commute, where a double-leg kickstand is essential to my feng shui.
>>
> Have you tried lubricating the spring mechanism?
>
> MJP
>
Yes, of course; the kickstand is on my regular lubrication checklist. Chain,
derailleur, kickstand. Clean and lube, as needed, depending on conditions.
In the winter, we are talking at least 3x per week.

I think this is a design defect. How could my beloved Swiss betray me like
this?!

J.

 

[Jay]

"landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:45fe8af3-c3b7-4c50-a020-a4477afc42c6@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 30, 1:50 pm, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> This is my second kickstand from these guys, and my patience is wearing
>> thin. Am I being unreasonable (which has happened)?!
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2bcncy
>>
>> Let me say at the outset; when this kickstand is new, it works perfectly,
>> and does exactly what it needs to do. It is a pleasure to use on my daily
>> commute, where a double-leg kickstand is essential to my feng shui.
>>
>> The first one crapped out after 6 months. The retailer and manufacturer
>> (both) were prompt and helpful. They replaced the obviously defective
>> kickstand.
>>
>> Nine months later, the replacement unit needs to be replaced. The
>> kickstand
>> does not retract as it should. It nearly drags on the pavement. So I just
>> finesse it with my toe, and it then retracts to the midpoint. At least it
>> is
>> not dragging on the ground. When the kickstand is new, it retracts fully.
>> At
>> this point, the kickstand will not retract fully - this is why I tied it
>> up,
>> for the purpose of this pic.
>>
>> http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-drag.jpg
>>
>> http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-midpoint.jpg
>>
>> http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-retracted.jpg
>>
>> I suspect, this kickstand is actually being made in China, not
>> Switzerland.
>>
>> End of rant and out of breath,
>>
>> America (and Northern Europeans) First J.
>
> A rear triangle mount Greenfield should go superbly with your White
> Power.
>
Do you have a specific link? I can't find a vendor, given only your cryptic
hint.

I am sure you know - Germans / Swiss / Austrians make the world's finest
products. It is in their very nature to NOT MAKE JUNK.

That is why I am so disappointed in this 'Swiss made' kickstand. The Swiss
do NOT make junk, regardless of price point.

Steamed J.

 

[M-gineering]

Jay wrote:

> Yes, of course; the kickstand is on my regular lubrication checklist. Chain,
> derailleur, kickstand. Clean and lube, as needed, depending on conditions.
> In the winter, we are talking at least 3x per week.

with what? WD40?

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

 

[Jay]

"M-gineering" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jay wrote:
>
>> Yes, of course; the kickstand is on my regular lubrication checklist.
>> Chain, derailleur, kickstand. Clean and lube, as needed, depending on
>> conditions. In the winter, we are talking at least 3x per week.
>
> with what? WD40?
>
> --
> /Marten
>
> info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
>
http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/teflon-plus-lube.htm

I like to use the red straw, because the lube goes exactly where I intended.
No overspray.

J.

 

[velodancer]

On Dec 30, 3:21 pm, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:

> > A rear triangle mount Greenfield should go superbly with your White
> > Power.
>
> Do you have a specific link? I can't find a vendor, given only your cryptic
> hint.

I think this is what he is talking about, but probably not what you
will want.
http://midtownbikeco.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2522

This one is similar to yours, from another Swiss company!
http://www.BikeMania.Biz/Pletscher_ESGE_Double_Kickstand_p/pletscher_kickstand_double.htm

I don't know how to find them, but there are rear mounted kickstands
I've seen in Europe and on work bikes here that lift the rear wheel
off the ground.

 

[BobT]

"Jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is my second kickstand from these guys, and my patience is wearing
> thin. Am I being unreasonable (which has happened)?!
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2bcncy
>
> Let me say at the outset; when this kickstand is new, it works perfectly,
> and does exactly what it needs to do. It is a pleasure to use on my daily
> commute, where a double-leg kickstand is essential to my feng shui.
>
> The first one crapped out after 6 months. The retailer and manufacturer
> (both) were prompt and helpful. They replaced the obviously defective
> kickstand.
>
> Nine months later, the replacement unit needs to be replaced. The
> kickstand does not retract as it should. It nearly drags on the pavement.
> So I just finesse it with my toe, and it then retracts to the midpoint. At
> least it is not dragging on the ground. When the kickstand is new, it
> retracts fully. At this point, the kickstand will not retract fully - this
> is why I tied it up, for the purpose of this pic.
>
> http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-drag.jpg
>
> http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-midpoint.jpg
>
> http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-retracted.jpg
>
> I suspect, this kickstand is actually being made in China, not
> Switzerland.
>
> End of rant and out of breath,
>
> America (and Northern Europeans) First J.
>
>
>
>
>
I have one of these hanging in the garage. I used it about a year before
buying a new frame. It won't fit my new frame so I replaced it with a
Greenfield, which works quite well. I never had your problems. Perhaps I
ride in milder conditions than those seen during Chicago winters. My wall
decoration has "Made in Switzerland" stamped on it so I expected it to be
great and last forever.

What are those vertical posts in the middle of your bike's chainstays?

BobT

 

[Tom Sherman]

Jay Bollyn wrote:
> This is my second kickstand from these guys, and my patience is wearing
> thin. Am I being unreasonable (which has happened)?!
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2bcncy
>
> Let me say at the outset; when this kickstand is new, it works perfectly,
> and does exactly what it needs to do. It is a pleasure to use on my daily
> commute, where a double-leg kickstand is essential to my feng shui.
>
> The first one crapped out after 6 months. The retailer and manufacturer
> (both) were prompt and helpful. They replaced the obviously defective
> kickstand.
>
> Nine months later, the replacement unit needs to be replaced. The kickstand
> does not retract as it should. It nearly drags on the pavement. So I just
> finesse it with my toe, and it then retracts to the midpoint. At least it is
> not dragging on the ground. When the kickstand is new, it retracts fully. At
> this point, the kickstand will not retract fully - this is why I tied it up,
> for the purpose of this pic.
>
> http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-drag.jpg
>
> http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-midpoint.jpg
>
> http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-retracted.jpg
>
> I suspect, this kickstand is actually being made in China, not Switzerland.
>
> End of rant and out of breath,

Have you disassembled and cleaned the kickstand? I would expect any area
not well sealed to be full of grunge, considering the winter commuter use.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
POST FREE OR DIE!

 

[Jay]

"velodancer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:8bf417e4-0aab-43df-ad56-c64f651bfe31@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 30, 3:21 pm, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:

> > A rear triangle mount Greenfield should go superbly with your White
> > Power.
>
> Do you have a specific link? I can't find a vendor, given only your
> cryptic
> hint.

I think this is what he is talking about, but probably not what you
will want.
http://midtownbikeco.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2522

This one is similar to yours, from another Swiss company!
http://www.BikeMania.Biz/Pletscher_ESGE_Double_Kickstand_p/pletscher_kickstand_double.htm

I don't know how to find them, but there are rear mounted kickstands
I've seen in Europe and on work bikes here that lift the rear wheel
off the ground.
>
The Swiss one you cited, is exactly what I have. The very same. When new, it
is wonderful!

Hard to imagine that the Greenfield product will out-perform the Swiss
product, when the Greenfield item is one-half the price of the Pletscher
kickstand, which I already have.

Bottom line, it looks like I need to replace kickstands on a yearly basis, 9
months, whatever.

The basic design problem is, the Pletscher kickstand does not protect their
working mechanism, from grime / crud / winter salt / whatever. I am their
worst nightmare.

This is yet another case of Jay pushing the bike weather envelope, to an
unreasonable point. I did not think it was that bad?

J.

 

Either their standards have dropped, or there's something unusual in
your riding conditions that is damaging the stand. My commuter bike's
ESGE stand dates from the early 1990s and still works perfectly with no
maintenance required. (Other than cleaning a bit of gunk out of it
every few years.)

--
[email protected] is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>

 

[landotter]

On Dec 30, 3:22 pm, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "velodancer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:8bf417e4-0aab-43df-ad56-c64f651bfe31@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 30, 3:21 pm, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > A rear triangle mount Greenfield should go superbly with your White
> > > Power.
>
> > Do you have a specific link? I can't find a vendor, given only your
> > cryptic
> > hint.
>
> I think this is what he is talking about, but probably not what you
> will want.http://midtownbikeco.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2522
>
> This one is similar to yours, from another Swiss company!http://www.BikeMania.Biz/Pletscher_ESGE_Double_Kickstand_p/pletscher_...
>
> I don't know how to find them, but there are rear mounted kickstands
> I've seen in Europe and on work bikes here that lift the rear wheel
> off the ground.
>
> The Swiss one you cited, is exactly what I have. The very same. When new, it
> is wonderful!
>
> Hard to imagine that the Greenfield product will out-perform the Swiss
> product, when the Greenfield item is one-half the price of the Pletscher
> kickstand, which I already have.

I see the wingnut mind is plodding along as usual. "It's more
expensive...it MUST be better". Not so. Greenfields are by far the
best stand out there. That's why cops, that have all that spendy gear
in the rear case, use them. I've got the even cheaper $8 BB mount
version, and it's doing it's job thoughtlessly right now.

 

[M-gineering]

Jay wrote:
> "M-gineering" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Jay wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, of course; the kickstand is on my regular lubrication checklist.
>>> Chain, derailleur, kickstand. Clean and lube, as needed, depending on
>>> conditions. In the winter, we are talking at least 3x per week.
>> with what? WD40?
>>
>> --
>> /Marten
>>
>> info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
>>
> http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/teflon-plus-lube.htm
>
> I like to use the red straw, because the lube goes exactly where I intended.
> No overspray.
>
> J.
>
>

a wonderfull product no doubt, but in the impressive writeup anti
corrosion properties are suspiciously absent. I suspect that a decent
squirt of engine oil would have had better results



--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

 

[M-gineering]

landotter wrote:
> On Dec 30, 3:22 pm, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "velodancer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:8bf417e4-0aab-43df-ad56-c64f651bfe31@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Dec 30, 3:21 pm, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> A rear triangle mount Greenfield should go superbly with your White
>>>> Power.
>>> Do you have a specific link? I can't find a vendor, given only your
>>> cryptic
>>> hint.
>> I think this is what he is talking about, but probably not what you
>> will want.http://midtownbikeco.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2522
>>
>> This one is similar to yours, from another Swiss company!http://www.BikeMania.Biz/Pletscher_ESGE_Double_Kickstand_p/pletscher_...
>>
>> I don't know how to find them, but there are rear mounted kickstands
>> I've seen in Europe and on work bikes here that lift the rear wheel
>> off the ground.
>>
>> The Swiss one you cited, is exactly what I have. The very same. When new, it
>> is wonderful!
>>
>> Hard to imagine that the Greenfield product will out-perform the Swiss
>> product, when the Greenfield item is one-half the price of the Pletscher
>> kickstand, which I already have.
>
> I see the wingnut mind is plodding along as usual. "It's more
> expensive...it MUST be better". Not so. Greenfields are by far the
> best stand out there. That's why cops, that have all that spendy gear
> in the rear case, use them. I've got the even cheaper $8 BB mount
> version, and it's doing it's job thoughtlessly right now.
>

another thing to note: it is not a $ 50 item, it ia s $27 item which for
some reason retails in the US for $50

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

 

[landotter]

On Dec 30, 3:29 pm, <[email protected]> wrote:
> Either their standards have dropped, or there's something unusual in
> your riding conditions that is damaging the stand.

That's true. Chicago salt is pretty vicious.

Something that's got a stupid simple mechanism like this guy might be
the trick:
http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=11375

 

[Jay]

"landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Dec 30, 3:29 pm, <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Either their standards have dropped, or there's something unusual in
>> your riding conditions that is damaging the stand.
>
> That's true. Chicago salt is pretty vicious.
>
> Something that's got a stupid simple mechanism like this guy might be
> the trick:
> http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=11375
>
I respectfully ask, with that fully exposed spring, how could it possilbly
hold up to all conditions, year round, daily use in Chicago?!

My problems have generally not been solved by throwing FEWER dollars at the
problem, although I do not rule it out.

But I agree, Chicago winter riding is not just about common road salt. Our
stuff is in fact a brakish abrasive slurry of grime, sand, grit, etc., all
dissolved into a witches brew, specifically designed to destroy bike
components.

Well, maybe I overstate my case a bit.

J.

 

[[email protected]]

On Dec 30, 9:21 pm, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:45fe8af3-c3b7-4c50-a020-a4477afc42c6@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Dec 30, 1:50 pm, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> This is my second kickstand from these guys, and my patience is wearing
> >> thin. Am I being unreasonable (which has happened)?!
>
> >>http://tinyurl.com/2bcncy
>
> >> Let me say at the outset; when this kickstand is new, it works perfectly,
> >> and does exactly what it needs to do. It is a pleasure to use on my daily
> >> commute, where a double-leg kickstand is essential to my feng shui.
>
> >> The first one crapped out after 6 months. The retailer and manufacturer
> >> (both) were prompt and helpful. They replaced the obviously defective
> >> kickstand.
>
> >> Nine months later, the replacement unit needs to be replaced. The
> >> kickstand
> >> does not retract as it should. It nearly drags on the pavement. So I just
> >> finesse it with my toe, and it then retracts to the midpoint. At least it
> >> is
> >> not dragging on the ground. When the kickstand is new, it retracts fully.
> >> At
> >> this point, the kickstand will not retract fully - this is why I tied it
> >> up,
> >> for the purpose of this pic.
>
> >>http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-drag.jpg
>
> >>http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-midpoint.jpg
>
> >>http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-retracted.jpg
>
> >> I suspect, this kickstand is actually being made in China, not
> >> Switzerland.
>
> >> End of rant and out of breath,
>
> >> America (and Northern Europeans) First J.
>
> > A rear triangle mount Greenfield should go superbly with your White
> > Power.
>
> Do you have a specific link? I can't find a vendor, given only your cryptic
> hint.
>
> I am sure you know - Germans / Swiss / Austrians make the world's finest
> products. It is in their very nature to NOT MAKE JUNK.
>
> That is why I am so disappointed in this 'Swiss made' kickstand. The Swiss
> do NOT make junk, regardless of price point.
>
> Steamed J.

I once paid to have the ball joints on my French registered car
replaced in Switzerland because I didn't want to get ripped off in
France. I paid to have the ball joints replaced, but I only got the
rubber gaiters replaced.

Swiss are people too.

FWIW, I have come to consider all semi-inexpensive manufactured items
from Europe with skepticism. If they can even remotely compete on
price, it must be ****.

Joseph

 

[A Muzi]

Jay wrote:
> This is my second kickstand from these guys, and my patience is wearing
> thin. Am I being unreasonable (which has happened)?!
> http://tinyurl.com/2bcncy
> Let me say at the outset; when this kickstand is new, it works perfectly,
> and does exactly what it needs to do. It is a pleasure to use on my daily
> commute, where a double-leg kickstand is essential to my feng shui.
> The first one crapped out after 6 months. The retailer and manufacturer
> (both) were prompt and helpful. They replaced the obviously defective
> kickstand.
> Nine months later, the replacement unit needs to be replaced. The kickstand
> does not retract as it should. It nearly drags on the pavement. So I just
> finesse it with my toe, and it then retracts to the midpoint. At least it is
> not dragging on the ground. When the kickstand is new, it retracts fully. At
> this point, the kickstand will not retract fully - this is why I tied it up,
> for the purpose of this pic.
> http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-drag.jpg
> http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-midpoint.jpg
> http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/kickstand-retracted.jpg
> I suspect, this kickstand is actually being made in China, not Switzerland.
> End of rant and out of breath,
> America (and Northern Europeans) First J.

It's a genuine Swiss made ESGE stand. Lube it a few times per year to
avoid the corrosion you describe.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[landotter]

On Dec 30, 4:22 pm, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...> On Dec 30, 3:29 pm, <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Either their standards have dropped, or there's something unusual in
> >> your riding conditions that is damaging the stand.
>
> > That's true. Chicago salt is pretty vicious.
>
> > Something that's got a stupid simple mechanism like this guy might be
> > the trick:
> >http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=11375
>
> I respectfully ask, with that fully exposed spring, how could it possilbly
> hold up to all conditions, year round, daily use in Chicago?!
>

The spring is easily replaceable when it rusts out. Check out the
small parts section at the North Ave. Home Depot. But, the deal is
that an exposed spring is easier to maintain and keep an eye on.


> My problems have generally not been solved by throwing FEWER dollars at the
> problem, although I do not rule it out.
>
> But I agree, Chicago winter riding is not just about common road salt. Our
> stuff is in fact a brakish abrasive slurry of grime, sand, grit, etc., all
> dissolved into a witches brew, specifically designed to destroy bike
> components.

I never had a problem with corrosion, but I always toweled off my
commuter at night and used full coverage fenders. Rode 360 days a year
or so. Beats trudging through the snow on the sidewalk.