How long should an integrated headset last?

[Swoop]

I am thinking about getting a fuji c7 carbon frame, it comes with an integrated headset.....I have read that these can cause actual wear inside the headtube at the frame bearing interface.......does anyone have any experience with this? If it does wear, how fast? Does it do so, so slowly that the frame will be long gone by the time the headset wears "through"? I was hoping to get at least 5 years out of the bike. Thanks for your help.

 

[Adam-from-SLO]

I am thinking about getting a fuji c7 carbon frame, it comes with an integrated headset.....I have read that these can cause actual wear inside the headtube at the frame bearing interface.......does anyone have any experience with this? If it does wear, how fast? Does it do so, so slowly that the frame will be long gone by the time the headset wears "through"? I was hoping to get at least 5 years out of the bike. Thanks for your help.

Not to worry.. you should get at least 5 years out of the headset. However, if you are seriously considering this bike.... there has to be a definite lower price limit set on this frame due to the inferior integrated HS situation. If you were planning on keeping the frame for closer to 8+ years.... then I'd pass on the frame.

I wonder who's idea it was for the integrated HS design ... gotta be some weight junkie from some larger bicycle manufacture.

 

[Retro Grouch]

I am thinking about getting a fuji c7 carbon frame, it comes with an integrated headset.....I have read that these can cause actual wear inside the headtube at the frame bearing interface.......does anyone have any experience with this? If it does wear, how fast? Does it do so, so slowly that the frame will be long gone by the time the headset wears "through"? I was hoping to get at least 5 years out of the bike. Thanks for your help.

The integrated headset myth.

Look at a cartridge bearing. The cup and the cone and the balls are exactly like an old style cup and cone bearing except that everything is combined in one piece. When it finally dies you can throw the old cartridge bearing away and drop in a new one. It isn't going to wear away your frame's head tube any worse than an old style headset.

I'm a retro grouch, but integrated headsets have been around for long enough that they have proven themselves.

 

[dhk]

Not to worry.. you should get at least 5 years out of the headset. However, if you are seriously considering this bike.... there has to be a definite lower price limit set on this frame due to the inferior integrated HS situation. If you were planning on keeping the frame for closer to 8+ years.... then I'd pass on the frame.

I wonder who's idea it was for the integrated HS design ... gotta be some weight junkie from some larger bicycle manufacture.

The only way I can see damage to the headtube occurring is if the headset is allowed to run loose (without preload) so that the bearings are free to move over bumps and potholes. If the headtube is machined with the correct tolerances, and preload is properly setup and maintained, seems to me there will be nothing to worry about.

You must have some experience with problems. I'm a little concerned with your dire predictions, since I've got this setup on my custom frame, which I plan on keeping a long time. At 9K miles so far, the headset is fine. The frame also has pressed-in BB bearings (the Megatech OS design) which fit directly into the BB.

On the other hand, suppose it's hard to argue against having replaceable bearing cups when it comes to long-term frame life.

 

[capwater]

Agree with Retro, lots of bad info bashing the integrated headsets (I ride a Klein Q Pro). Stories of headtube damage abound on the internet along with bigfoot sightings.

As far as to the "how long should it last" question, too many variables; riding style, miles ridden, riding conditions, bike care, etc... Learn how to adjust your headset and you'll have years of service and know when it is starting to wear.

 

[Fignon le Grand]

Im afraid I have to disagree qute strongly. The fact that you dont have a problem is the point. Klein are a master frame builder with years of experience and quality obsessed. Fuji on the other hand bang out cheap but generaly good frames. The main problem Ive seen in Europe is the build quality of the frame impacting on the geometery of the frame and the subsequent fitting of the headset. integrated headsets are great on the good stuff less great on the cheaper models. Colnago still wont use them on any italian built frames. Also the durability is comparitively rubbish and I hope no one leaves one on for 5 years on a bike they appreciate

Agree with Retro, lots of bad info bashing the (I ride a Klein Q Pro). Stories of headtube damage abound on the internet along with bigfoot sightings.

As far as to the "how long should it last" question, too many variables; riding style, miles ridden, riding conditions, bike care, etc... Learn how to adjust your headset and you'll have years of service and know when it is starting to wear.

 

[DiabloScott]

Im afraid I have to disagree qute strongly. The fact that you dont have a problem is the point. Klein are a master frame builder with years of experience and quality obsessed. Fuji on the other hand bang out cheap but generaly good frames. The main problem Ive seen in Europe is the build quality of the frame impacting on the geometery of the frame and the subsequent fitting of the headset. integrated headsets are great on the good stuff less great on the cheaper models. Colnago still wont use them on any italian built frames. Also the durability is comparitively rubbish and I hope no one leaves one on for 5 years on a bike they appreciate

Also, Klein's "internal" headset is a better design than an "integrated" headset.

 

[Adam-from-SLO]

Also, Klein's "internal" headset is a better design than an "integrated" headset.

Ahhhh Haaaaa. So, there is a bit of a difference between what Klein puts out, vs. others.

I'm just regergitating what I'ver heard a few times around LBS where I live... in terms of overal long term durability is questionable. Say in 7 years use, if the bearing need to be replaced.. are you sure to be able to find a set to purchase/ and reinstall ???? Maybe you should stock up on an extra set of bearings just in case.

My two probable future road frame purchase still lands me w/ a traditional HS - KING baby ..... KING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[capwater]

Also, Klein's "internal" headset is a better design than an "integrated" headset.

Scott, you and I have discussed this in the past, but as a refresher course care to explain the diffs between internal and integrated headsets? I seem to recall something where one type uses the headtube as a cup and one actually has an inserted sleeve of some sort. Muchas gracias.

 

[DiabloScott]

Scott, you and I have discussed this in the past, but as a refresher course care to explain the diffs between internal and integrated headsets? I seem to recall something where one type uses the headtube as a cup and one actually has an inserted sleeve of some sort. Muchas gracias.

The worst design IMO is the kind where the head tube is shaped so that the top and bottom actually look like the headset is pressed in - they have the steerer forces right at the edge of the tubing so they're susceptible to going out of round... and if they're not machined perfectly at the manufacturer you can't fix them.

The better integrated designs use bigger diameter head tubes so the bearings are inside the tube instead of on top of it - less susceptible to damage but still must leave the factory perfectly or it'll never be right (but you won't know until it's built up). Both of these are really a problem with frames designed for integrated headsets, not the headsets themselves.

Internal headsets are cartdridge bearings so the pre-load is pre-set and there's no way to install them crooked. You put the upper one in from below and bond it into place where the head tube has a little shelf so it's at the right height, and then put the lower one on the fork and then bond the whole thing into place. The result is less user-serviceable but longer lasting.

The newer Kleins have gone to a conventional integrated upper bearing with star fangled nut etc, but have kept the lower cartridge bonded to the fork and head tube. I've got one of the older 1-1/16 ones and if it goes out it'll be three times as much to replace. If an integrated headset goes out it can ruin your frame.

 

[artmichalek]

Here's what Chris King has to say about it.
http://www.chrisking.com/pdfs/Int Headsets Explained.pdf

It raises some good points, as well as clarifying the difference between integrated and internal.

 

[dhk]

Here's what Chris King has to say about it.
http://www.chrisking.com/pdfs/Int Headsets Explained.pdf

It raises some good points, as well as clarifying the difference between integrated and internal.

Very interesting article. My custom frame has an FSA integrated HS which works fine. Again, if headtube was properly machined, and preload is maintained, I doubt the headtube on a road bike is going to see any significant wear. However, it's difficult to argue with the long-term durability of having replaceable bearing cups.

Cartridge bearing replacement is another issue. My new bike has cartridge bearings in the HS, BB and wheel hubs. At 8500 miles, two years, I've replaced the BB and front wheel cartridges....so far. These "maintenance-free" bearings aren't very expensive, but they aren't well-sealed, and can't be really be serviced or adjusted at home. With my limited experience, it seems to me the old-style bearing designs for HS, BB and hubs were better from a maintenance viewpoint.

 

[StartTday]

When I received my frame and parts for the TMobile, I wasnt too thrilled about the integrated headset. But its been fine and Ive ridden it for a year. And besides, I plan on getting a new bike before this 5-7 year breakdown period of the headset.

 

[DiabloScott]

Very interesting article. My custom frame has an FSA integrated HS which works fine. Again, if headtube was properly machined, and preload is maintained, I doubt the headtube on a road bike is going to see any significant wear. However, it's difficult to argue with the long-term durability of having replaceable bearing cups.

Cartridge bearing replacement is another issue. My new bike has cartridge bearings in the HS, BB and wheel hubs. At 8500 miles, two years, I've replaced the BB and front wheel cartridges....so far. These "maintenance-free" bearings aren't very expensive, but they aren't well-sealed, and can't be really be serviced or adjusted at home. With my limited experience, it seems to me the old-style bearing designs for HS, BB and hubs were better from a maintenance viewpoint.

I've been riding for 23 years and I've replaced ONE headset. It was indexed so it would sort of "catch" at a certain point in the steering motion. Indexing is not caused by brinnelling from long periods of use, it's caused by hard hits. In my case the hits were strong enough to put a ripple in my downtube and de-rake my steel fork a little bit but the bike was still rideable if a little squirrelly. Yes, HS replacement was pretty easy (threaded conventional type) but I wouldn't have cried if they told me it would be a $200 fix. Headsets should be replaceable, but I don't think they need to be user-replaceable.

I think back fondly on repacking my hubs and BB and HS bearings, getting a bag of shiny new balls from the LBS and getting grease all over everything - that's when I didn't have a trillion other things to do - but I like the new stuff better because now I do.