How many cars run traffic lights?

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>, Alex Rodriguez <[email protected]> writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

>>HOV lanes,
>
> Seems like a good idea, but they are mostly under utilized, at least the ones I have seen are, so
> they waste space.

Maybe it's not the lanes themselves wasting the space, but all the SOV drivers who won't car-pool
and use that space. I understand some adamantly SOV drivers will waste space /inside/ their cars
with artificial, inflatable "passengers" in order to get away with using HOV lanes.

HOV lanes do enhance public transit/transport, and mitigate the oft complained-of "slowness" of
public transit.

On the highway, they make longer Greyhound trips more bearable. Shorter in duration than they'd
otherwise be, anyway.

>>It's a bunch of spoiled whiners. I'm in favour of using every opportunity to make driving less
>>convenient for them.
>
> I'm all for enforcing the adequate existing laws instead of coming up with the a law to cover the
> current fads.

Around here, the law has always dictated that yellow lights mean "stop unless unsafe to do so". The
current fad is to regard them as a prompt to step on it before the light turns red.

Speaking of traffic lights -- the more I think about it, the more in favour I become of abolishing
right-on-red, which imposes too much danger on pedestrians.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

 

[Matthew]

"Buck" <s c h w i n n _ f o r _ s a l e @ h o t m a i l . c o m> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Matthew" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> > News search on Google for "decrease yellow light timing" did not match
any
> > documents. I leave the ball in your court to document your assertion
that
> > anyone is shortening yellow light intervals to make money.
>
> While neither of these links provide evidence for cities shortening yellow lights, the do
> indicate that cameras are being installed in intersections where the yellow lights are too short
> (even shorter than their own laws allow), the installation of detector loops was done
> incorrectly, cameras

Poor implementation is not the same as "unscrupulous scamming."

> were being installed where no accidents were occurring, and accident rates

The selective enforcement argument has never been a good one.

> increased after installation (despite claims of the camera's positive
impact
> on motorist safety).
>

Unfortunately, red light cameras are not the only variable.

>
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/078ftoqz.a sp

This quote from the above (part 2) hardly documents the shortening yellow light urban legend:

"But recently the debate has shifted to address less abstract issues such as: Does the technology
even work? Does it reduce accidents and safety risks, or cause more of its own? Are cities
overstating a threat, overselling a technology, and undercutting more important safety
countermeasures to gouge revenues out of their citizens? Rep. **** Armey's answer to those questions
was made abundantly clear in his recent report, titled--with jackhammer subtlety--"The Red Light
Camera Scam."

"Released last May, the report was met with ridicule by editorialists, many of whom suffer from the
Armey Effect, dictating that if the relatively unpopular congressman is against something, they
should be for it. What stretched the credulity of most critics was the implied assertion that cities
were reducing their yellow-light intervals in order to entrap motorists with red light cameras--or
"scameras," as detractors now call them. "You're full of it, sir," was one of the punditocracy's
gentler admonitions."

 

[Buck]

"Matthew" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "Buck" <s c h w i n n _ f o r _ s a l e @ h o t m a i l . c o m> wrote in

> > While neither of these links provide evidence for cities shortening
yellow
> > lights, the do indicate that cameras are being installed in
intersections
> > where the yellow lights are too short (even shorter than their own laws allow), the installation
> > of detector loops was done incorrectly, cameras
>
> Poor implementation is not the same as "unscrupulous scamming."
>
> > were being installed where no accidents were occurring, and accident
rates
>

>
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/078ftoqz.a
> sp
>
> This quote from the above (part 2) hardly documents the shortening yellow light urban legend:

You really need to watch your quoting. First, I stated clearly that none of the links provided
documentation of anyone shortening the yellow light intervals. However, there is clear
documentation of red-light cameras being installed in intersections where the yellow light interval
was too short, some even shorter than the city or state guidelines. Second, I didn't say anything
about "unscrupulous scamming" - that was in the article. Third, if the red-light camera proponents
are all concerned about safety, then why were cameras installed in intersections where there were
no accident problems while the most of the dangerous intersections were ignored? Finally, before
going to the expense of installing cameras, why didn't they just lengthen the yellow light? It
would only take a few minutes time and would cost only the labor expense of having their engineer
go down and reset it?

It all smacks of a money-making scheme.

-Buck

 

[Matthew]

"Buck" <s c h w i n n _ f o r _ s a l e @ h o t m a i l . c o m> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You really need to watch your quoting. First, I stated clearly that none
of
> the links provided documentation of anyone shortening the yellow light intervals. However, there
> is clear documentation of red-light cameras
being
> installed in intersections where the yellow light interval was too short, some even shorter than
> the city or state guidelines. Second, I didn't say anything about "unscrupulous scamming" - that
> was in the article. Third,
if

I did not mean to suggest that you accused anyone of unscrupulous scamming and fully understood that
you did not intend to provide proof of shortening yellow light durations.

The OP (Alex) did and I--among others--would like that opinion documented; this was clearly the
direction the thread was headed before your post.

I chose to quote the article because it mentioned a similar assertion to the one made by Alex that
was quickly dismissed.

Matthew

 

[Zoot Katz]

Tue, 09 Dec 2003 13:15:55 -0500,
<[email protected]>, regurgitating party-line
rationalisations, Alex Rodriguez <[email protected]> whined:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
>>Now let's hear the unfounded claims and party line spin against radar detectors,
>
>I'm all for radar detectors.

Predictably, so are the rest of the spoiled brats who don't want to be held accountable for their
illegal driving practices.
>
\snip more of the same tripe.

Which do you love more, whiner, your kids or your car?
--
zk

 

[Rick Onanian]

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:44:32 -0800, Zoot Katz
<[email protected]> wrote:
>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>>Now let's hear the unfounded claims and party line spin against radar detectors,
>>
>>I'm all for radar detectors.
>
>Predictably, so are the rest of the spoiled brats who don't want to be held accountable for their
>illegal driving practices.

Wow! Can you make a 180 degree turn on your bike that fast, too?
--
Rick Onanian

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

>Around here, the law has always dictated that yellow lights mean "stop unless unsafe to do so". The
>current fad is to regard them as a prompt to step on it before the light turns red.

I don't think you have read all the regulations. A yellow light means that the light will soon be
turning red. Nothing more.

>Speaking of traffic lights -- the more I think about it, the more in favour I become of abolishing
>right-on-red, which imposes too much danger on pedestrians.

That is the case here in NYC where ROR is not permitted except where explicitly posted. Where there
is not a lot of pedestrian traffic, ROR & LOR are good ideas.
-------------
Alex

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>Tue, 09 Dec 2003 13:15:55 -0500, <[email protected]>, regurgitating party-
>line rationalisations, Alex Rodriguez <[email protected]> whined:
>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>>Now let's hear the unfounded claims and party line spin against radar detectors,
>>I'm all for radar detectors.
>
>Predictably, so are the rest of the spoiled brats who don't want to be held accountable for their
>illegal driving

No, I want to be aware when others are monitoring me. Especially when the monitoring device is so
prone to user error. It is my right.
-------------
Alex

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
Alex Rodriguez <[email protected]> writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
>>Around here, the law has always dictated that yellow lights mean "stop unless unsafe to do so".
>>The current fad is to regard them as a prompt to step on it before the light turns red.
>
> I don't think you have read all the regulations. A yellow light means that the light will soon be
> turning red. Nothing more.

http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/stat/M/96318_03.htm#section128

"Yellow light

128 (1) When a yellow light alone is exhibited at an intersection by a traffic control signal,
following the exhibition of a green light,

(a) the driver of a vehicle approaching the intersection and facing the yellow light must cause
it to stop before entering the marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if
there is no marked crosswalk, before entering the intersection, unless the stop cannot be
made in safety,"

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

 

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> >Around here, the law has always dictated that yellow lights mean "stop unless unsafe to do so".
> >The current fad is to regard them as a prompt to step on it before the light turns red.
>
> I don't think you have read all the regulations. A yellow light means that the light will soon be
> turning red. Nothing more.

In some states (Missouri, for one), it also means that you should stop if you can do so safely.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>In article <[email protected]>, Alex Rodriguez <[email protected]> writes:
>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>>Around here, the law has always dictated that yellow lights mean "stop unless unsafe to do so".
>>>The current fad is to regard them as a prompt to step on it before the light turns red.
>> I don't think you have read all the regulations. A yellow light means that the light will soon be
>> turning red. Nothing more.
>http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/stat/M/96318_03.htm#section128 "Yellow light
>128 (1) When a yellow light alone is exhibited at an intersection by a traffic control signal,
> following the exhibition of a green light,
>(a) the driver of a vehicle approaching the intersection and facing the yellow light must cause it
> to stop before entering the marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there
> is no marked crosswalk, before entering the intersection, unless the stop cannot be made in
> safety,"

My fault. I didn't realize you were in Canada. In the US, the regulation is as I stated.
--------------
Alex

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>, ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net says...
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>
>> >Around here, the law has always dictated that yellow lights mean "stop unless unsafe to do so".
>> >The current fad is to regard them as a prompt to step on it before the light turns red.
>>
>> I don't think you have read all the regulations. A yellow light means that the light will soon be
>> turning red. Nothing more.
>
>In some states (Missouri, for one), it also means that you should stop if you can do so safely.

That is the recommendation, but if you don't and you enter the intersection before the light changes
to red, then you have not broken any laws.
-----------------
Alex