How many of you carry a gun as part of your cycling equipment?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Joe West, Oct 2, 2004.

  1. Akadat

    Akadat New Member

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    That hurts, but is so true! Somebody said "The opressed opress themselves by always chosing the option that opresses them further". Britain and Australia have travelled far down that road.

    It is a form of breeding because the people accept ridiculous proposals thinking that they will be safer without having to do anything themselves. Thus we have pistols banned in Britain, but they can own semi-auto longarms; and semi-auto longarms banned in Australia but pistols can be owned. Each was a knee-jerk reaction to a shooting where the weapon of choice was banned. Each banning has produced a jump in crime involving the the weapons banned, yet the people somehow think they are safer, and the governments screw the statistics to 'prove' it.

    Little Rock sounds like a good place to live and cycle.
     


  2. jeepguy32

    jeepguy32 New Member

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    Hi cbjesseeNH,

    I just used this info of yours in a related thread "Great Guns for Cycling!" I made sure to give you credit for the suggestion. Thank you!

    Jeepguy32
     
  3. Lionfish

    Lionfish New Member

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    I am in no way "knocking" keeping protection on us but here's something to keep in mind once we pull out a piece:

    Are you REALLY ready to shot someone?

    Once you pull that trigger, life as you know it is over. There WILL be a hearing & you will probably be found guilty of aggravated assult.

    Are you willing to spend time in jail?

    What if the driver in the car/truck also has one & is REALLY willing to use it?

    What would keep the driver from circling around & running us over?

    What would keep the driver from throwing his car/truck in reverse & back over us using "self defence" as his motive which would hold merit in court?

    Are we willing to put our family in jepardy if that person follows us home someday?

    Rest assured, the driver WILL be looking for you for years to come & he won't come unprepared or let you see him coming this time. If that was a common route for us don't plan on riding it ever again.

    Can you get to your peice in a crisis situation? (Well trained soliders have been know to freeze when **** goes down...I've seen it.)

    People don't just walk away from stuff anymore especially if that person is violent prone to begin with. Personally, I'd rather keep my gestures & even facial expresions to myself when people act stupid. Coming home on Friday from work I've had a guy yell at me in the morning & another pull out on me in the afternoon. In both cases I was well in the right & I ALWAYS yeild to traffic & pedestrians. I stay ON the white line or the the right if there's room.

    Sometimes I think some cyclist bring it on themselves when they ride 2 feet to the left of the white line & hold up traffic & endanger the drivers lives when they have to pass with poor visability which could cause a head-on with another car.

    I Let them drive off thinking they've "won" & that's probably the last you'll see of them. I'm not prepared to take a bat to the spine or head if the driver circles round & "teaches me a lesson" or face any of the above "raised questions".

    Again, I'm not saying not to defend ourselves, there's just always a consequense for our RE-action. Personally I hope we never HAVE to face this situation.
    :)

    Shawn
     
  4. n2t

    n2t New Member

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    The fact is if a person is carrying a gun it's generaly going to be used as a last line of defence. You're not going to wave it around to get your way, it's going to be used in a situation where you have no other choice. Such as that guy that pulled out has already tried to run you over, or already pulled his gun, or already followed you home and is intent on harming your family. In those situations, with the guy breaking into your house do you really want to be hiding facial expressions crouched in a corner calling 911? Yes you may freeze, but you may not, there are cases of soldiers freezing in battle and in the US privatly owned firearms have been used in legal defence situations many times and are effective that's why CCW permits are legal, because generaly they work. The other fact I submit is that one doesn't even have to consider harming anything. If one wants to live a carless lifestyle and also enjoys hunting/shooting, carry of a firearm on a bike is pretty needed as well. Trust me though, there are bad people out there who don't care one bit about your opinion or what you do. They are going to hurt someone no matter the consequences or what's said. They plan it out...and wait for the opertunity. These guys exist and are not that far away. Every once in a while I get a hard reminder of this fact. So just take my word for it.
     
  5. Hive

    Hive New Member

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    Well put!
     
  6. cbjesseeNH

    cbjesseeNH New Member

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    Exactly. The duty of a private citizen carrying a gun is to get home alive, not to address afronts to honor and dignity. One doesn't parry with a few tons of steel on wheels with any gun you can carry while riding a bicycle. Get off the road, toss the cleated shoes and run for the woods.

    That said, should you avoid carrying a gun as you might have to use it to defend your life? If you think you should, by all means leave it at home.
     
  7. Matt888

    Matt888 New Member

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    Ha, Americans. You people should wake up and take a look from the outside in.
    It's Hilarious. I don't need to point that you people kill each other more than any other country in the world do I, but I will because it's worth noting. But thats right it's not because you have so many guns is it? It's for protection isn't it? From other people with guns isn't it? Also this is cycling forum not a gun forum.
    Americans. Unbeleivable.:rolleyes:
     
  8. n2t

    n2t New Member

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    You know gun crime here isn't as bad as you're led to believe. And owning a gun doesn't make you a bad person. We have alot of fun over here with shooting sports, many of them international. Hunting is enjoyed my many, and and usualy we have a good and safe time. Every once in a while you get a bad person, but that bad person is no less bad if he doesn't have a gun. Guns can be used for self defence, people with guns, yeah it's possable, bears too. But they can also be used for competition, cowboy action shooting, long range target, skeet/trap, pistol comps. I've been shooting since I was 10, never shot anyone, never hurt anyone. Neither have most people I know. I've seen what bad people can do with guns, but lets be honest. If a person is going to kill someone, not having a gun won't stop them. Bad people, murderers are not made by guns, a gun is a tool, and when used by adults is quite safe. Guns don't make bad people. I don't see why people have to look up or down on others if they dissagree. Why not just leave both options open and choose where you live? Can't that be good enough? Why does one have to be better? I love shooting and reloading and hunting. I have no desire to ever hurt another decent human being, but I do consider my right to bear arms very important. So why can't I just be me and be happy here where I have that right? And if I go there I where I don't I leave my gun at home.... Can't we all just be mutualy respectfull?
     
  9. Matt888

    Matt888 New Member

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    The fact you choose to defend it says enough to me. And you should really look into those statistics that you say aren't that bad. Because theyare that bad the worst in the world bad actually. You have little kids who die because they mistakenly find guns and think they are toys.
    I can't beleive i'm even debating this on a cycling forum, it's rediculous.
     
  10. cbjesseeNH

    cbjesseeNH New Member

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    Let's call this common rant from an Australian/Brit #3, shall we?

    But perhaps we need a code for responses too then. Maybe "A" can be a reference to stats showing the large increase in violent crimes against AUS/UK persons since gun prohibitions went into effect - with over 200 million guns in the US the homicide rate is some 3-fold higher, but the violent crime rate is so much higher in AUS/UK than in the US.

    Is a preference for beating, stabbing, robbing and theft somehow morally superior to self-defense? Obviously, opinions vary. Of course, if you have no option of self-defense, it's not really a choice, is it?
     
  11. thepeddler

    thepeddler New Member

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    It is a shame that anyone even have to post a question like this. I guess I am lucky to live here in Perth where this question would never come up as 99% of people would never require a gun when cycling or even think about it.

    I guess if there are crackheads and other lunatics there in the USA who attack/harass you while you commute you need that gun to protect yourself.

    I have been all down the east coast of the USA, including New York City before "zero tolerance". The idea of people having guns didn't stop me enjoying your country.
     
  12. Hive

    Hive New Member

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    Very good! Yes, I wish Icould migrate to NZ. We have some problem people, but those of us who understand, also know it is our fault as well.

    Even in my small town, protection is becoming a wise choice,even if pepper spray. Our politicans are all party line fools, who will never step up to their resposibilites and so why should a young person do what they have never been taught and see no integrity in public life? (Sorry, off-topic.)

    The unfortunate consequences of too many people and not enough family discipline and education.
     
  13. stevebaby

    stevebaby New Member

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    What would you rather be...beaten up and alive or shot dead?
    Your stupidity never ceases to astonish me jessie. Can you not see the connection between the respective murder rates and the assault rates?
    BTW...you're lying again about the assault rates.
     
  14. stevebaby

    stevebaby New Member

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  15. stevebaby

    stevebaby New Member

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    Fact 1. Handguns, in either Australia or the UK,have not been available to the general public for "self-defence" for many years. Further restricting who may have them and how they may be used could therefore have no possible effect on violent crime since they have not been used for that purpose since before WW1.
    Fact 2. You're lying about crime rates. Full stop...no question...you're a liar.
     
  16. Hive

    Hive New Member

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    Amazing how long we beat a dead horse. It is, in fact, a tribute to how stubborn humans are and why we never seem to make any progress as human bings, as not feigntly noted in above comment.

    Crime, like sexual preference and a host of things, is a statistical reality, that is, a function of population/demographics. How an act or crime is committed is a variation and a function of too many variable to mention, but the violent part is not.

    So, by and large, when we read comments, regarless of postition, isn't it preferable to let it pass, as most people understand such things for what they are, besides a reflection of the author's frame of mind or genetic dispostion toward life...

    Simple choice, carry or not, the reasoning matters little. Choice under conditions and maybe survival instinct. Christ's Church isnot Perth, neither are New York and none are Bagdad, but social conditions in each influences state of mind.

    The poet noted below had it right, didn't he?
     
  17. n2t

    n2t New Member

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    The simple fact is guns are not bad. People can be. People who reload and carry guns for self defence rarely if ever commit crimes with them. CCW permit owners are responsable for next to no gun related crimes, and even less violent crimes. Usualy if there is a crime from a CCW holder it's a misunderstanding of certain rules, not a dangerous act, ie driving through an area that doesn't have recprocity etc. How many kids live in houses with guns that have never been hurt? I did, my friends all did. They are not bad by nature and not every gun is even meant to hurt people. I'm sorry but guys don't go out and buy muzzle loaders, fine double shotguns, and comp grade single actions and 1911s to go on murder rampages. Generaly we're a safe bunch over here guns or not.
     
  18. cbjesseeNH

    cbjesseeNH New Member

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    Not the right question.

    If I were given no means of self-defense, and a group of thugs jumped me and asked me, "What would you rather be...beaten up and alive or shot dead?", I would certainly chose the former. Maybe the common Australian thug is more practiced in beating in a manner not risking life and limb (Careful with him blokes, we don't want to maim or kill him, so stay away from vital organs), but that's not a bet I'd be willing to take.

    The right question would be: "What would you rather be, assaulted by person(s) of superior strength/numbers with no guarantee you will not suffer lifelong debilitating injuries or death, or use a gun to defend yourself?"

    Would I rather see innocent persons beaten, robbed and raped, or see violent criminals shot dead? Try to read my mind ...

    Christopher Lockwood also made the same arguement, again imagining that one has a choice as to how a criminal will victimize one:
    http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-dustup26apr26,0,5618950.story?coll=la-promo-opinion

    "A fair chunk of the gun lobby's analysis relies on cunningly eliding homicides with other serious crimes, and reassuringly repeating the mantra that American society is not particularly dangerous by the "violent crime" standard. This is true: I accept the charge that on the figures Britain seems to be "more violent" than America. But it's also very misleading. I'd infinitely rather be beaten up or mugged than murdered. Burglary is apparently nine times more common in Britain than America, and I am quite prepared to accept that the possibility of a householder's being armed is part of the reason (though surely not the only one: the much greater geographical dispersal of American homes is a factor too). But again, I'd far rather be burgled nine times over than shot with a semi-automatic pistol brought over-the-counter by an undiagnosed psychopath, or indeed by the family firearm wielded in the course of a domestic argument."
     
  19. stevebaby

    stevebaby New Member

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    See? It's not hard when you make an effort.
     
  20. cbjesseeNH

    cbjesseeNH New Member

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    Gosh SB, I'm using the same data source you recommended on this thread in an earlier post, although now updated to include 2005 data.

    http://aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2006/index.html

    (p25) "The trend in assaults shows an average growth of 6% each year between 1995 and 2005. This is three times the annual growth of the Australian population over the same period."

    (p29) "Reported sexual assaults have increased by an average 4% each year since 1995."

    It seems that 61% of robberies and 69% of both assaults and attempted break-ins went unreported to police in 2005 (p48) compared to 47%, 62% and 63%, respectively, the prior year http://aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2005/index.html

    Why the drop in reporting?

    (p85) "The percentage of prisoners sentenced for violent offences increased from 38% in 1986 to 47% in 1995 and has continued to remain steady since then."

    So, since the latest round of gun laws were enacted, rates of violent crime have been on the increase but rates of jailing violent criminals have remained constant.

    Perhaps, as violent crime continues to increase steadily, year-after-year, since 1995, the failure to lock-up violent criminals has left people despondent, considering the arrest & prosecutorial system without effect?

    Theft and such appears to have dropped over recent years, but it would seem curious that laws enacted since Port Arthur, meant to address mass shootings, had secondary effects of reducing theft but increasing violent crime.

    ... and Christopher Lockwood, the US Editor of the Economist quoted above - is he lying too about increased violent crime in the UK?
     
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