How many of you carry a gun as part of your cycling equipment?



ritcho

New Member
May 24, 2004
934
0
0
Joe West said:
Holy Smoke!

If the Republican party in Australia is the liberal party... is the other party MORE LIBERAL than liberal or is it conservative?

:D

You guys need to change your political parties... Republican is conservative and the (tax and spend) Democratic party is liberal.
<grin>

Got that?

If you remove the label, you find that the Aust. Liberal party is the conservative party: lower role for government with more (US-version) conservative ideals. The other side is the Labor Party, which (obviously) has its roots in the trade union movement - it tends to be more (US-version) liberal. As it applies to Aust politics 'liberal' is very different to the US version.

As far as taxing and spending, I believe the historical record shows that the Democrats are the 'tax more and spend more' party, whilst the GOP is the 'tax less and spend more' party.

By way of a footnote, the Aust Liberal Party, which just won its 4th general election (triennial elections) has revealed itself as the 'tax more and spend less' party, though it recently promised to 'tax less and spend more'! We'll see...

Ritch
 

TommyGunn

New Member
Sep 21, 2004
28
0
0
jesus man......things gotta be bad where you are if you have to carry heat on a training ride.....
 

jitteringjr

New Member
Sep 2, 2003
474
2
0
50
TommyGunn said:
jesus man......things gotta be bad where you are if you have to carry heat on a training ride.....


I live a city where the murder rate is one of the highest in the country (and some years is the highest) and I have never "had to" pack. I have never even felt uncomfortable to the point the having one would be nice while I was riding.

If I had to guesstamate, I would say that less than 1 out of a million people would ever really need one while riding. I mean you are moving at 20mph, it is not like they are going run you down on foot. Its not like the criminal is going to jump on his Campy racing machine to chase you down and gun you. Heck it is not like most criminals could even hit a moving target if they did shoot. Now walking the street at night may be different and having one would be nice at times, but seriously while riding, not needed.

It seems to be about peace of mind for most people and not about "having to have one"
 

BigTuk

New Member
Jul 26, 2004
7
0
0
I may be missing the point here, but aren't bad guys way more likely to shoot at you if you have a gun too?
 

leslierc8853

New Member
Sep 11, 2004
65
0
0
69
BigTuk said:
I may be missing the point here, but aren't bad guys way more likely to shoot at you if you have a gun too?
At the risk of not letting this thread die let me say that carrying a gun anytime or anywhere is the furthest thing from my mind. Even though I am reminded by news reports everyday about how dangerous it is for ordinary, law-abiding people to go about their lives, I choose not to be so overcome by fear to believe that my only choices are either to be a victim or to kill. Taking the life of another person should never become a gratuituous action. If the life of a human being is no longer precious, what have we become as a society? I grew-up in a very dangerous community in New York City and my father taught me that if I ever chose to carry a weapon and show it during a confrontation, I had better be prepared to use it with lethal intention. I was formerly a criminal defense attorney, and in this connection I have represented people who have killed others. For many of these people they regretted their actions; for most, they had placed themselves in situations from which they thought they couldn't back-away. For me, I would often reflect on my father's words while I was representing these people and I would wonder if the outcome for them would have been different if they had not had the means to kill at their disposal. For them, they have to live with what they did for the rest of their lives.
 

szbert

New Member
Oct 12, 2004
336
2
0
Joe West said:
Holy Smoke!

If the Republican party in Australia is the liberal party... is the other party MORE LIBERAL than liberal or is it conservative?

:D

You guys need to change your political parties... Republican is conservative and the (tax and spend) Democratic party is liberal.
<grin>

Got that?
Sadly, in America, most Republicans are libs, most Democrats are leftists. We need a Jeffersonian Party.
 

szbert

New Member
Oct 12, 2004
336
2
0
Joe West said:
Just ordered (well... 6 months ago I ordered) a Wilson Combat 1911... Looked at Kimber but read some bad things about their MIM process (most, likely not true but enough to make me decide to go with all forged parts).
You can't go wrong with a 1911 :D

Joe
Of all the customs I've seen, I think Bill Wilson best focuses on function and usabilty over style. Then, when you see the quality of his work, you see the artistry of fine craftsmanship. Even now, since he become a real manufacturer, I haven't seen the quality suffer. . . . . wish I had the money to buy another one, but I'm saving my pennies for Colnago Track frame and Dura Ace comps.

BTW, I don't carry when racing at the velodrome, but my wife is packing in the infield!:) Either a Les Baer customized Colt Mustang, or a Glock 26. Gotta love a woman who's beautiful, can take care of you and the kids, and can shoot.

Don't be a victim. The cops can't be everywhere.
 

Hazmat

New Member
Oct 7, 2004
39
0
0
48
TommyGunn said:
jesus man......things gotta be bad where you are if you have to carry heat on a training ride.....
Austin, TX is a fairly safe city, but there are definitely parts where you can get FUBAR'd or shot for being the wrong ethnicity


jitteringjr said:
I mean you are moving at 20mph, it is not like they are going run you down on foot.
yes, that is unlikely, but if they see you coming and don't like the way you look/think you shouldn't be in their hood, or may simply be chemically influenced, they may be more than happy to meet you by the time you reach them


BigTuk said:
I may be missing the point here, but aren't bad guys way more likely to shoot at you if you have a gun too?
not if it is concealed as has been the point almost throughout the entire thread. This is all about preparation for the unknown, and being ready for potential reactionary measures. No one (that I remember reading) was taking a proactive stance suggesting that just cause you happen to see something you don't like you start waving your weapon around (nor was the that the point in about the AZ laws).


leslierc8853 said:
Taking the life of another person should never become a gratuituous action.
I don't think anyone is suggesting it should be

leslierc8853 said:
my father taught me that if I ever chose to carry a weapon and show it during a confrontation, I had better be prepared to use it with lethal intention.
any proper class will tell you that as well, repeatedly

leslierc8853 said:
I would wonder if the outcome for them would have been different if they had not had the means to kill at their disposal. For them, they have to live with what they did for the rest of their lives.
Well, lets see, they might be dead, or severely mutilated, or worse. I don't know about you, but if I am attacked, if my girlfriend were attacked, or my mom, or my brother (no, wait, he's a quicker draw than I) I would have absolutely zero compunction (sp?) about stopping him/her/them with lethal force. Again, I don't know about you, but I refuse to allow some scumbag to dictate the course of my life, to decide if I am worthy of his "mercy, if my life has merit. No.
 

pomod

New Member
Apr 27, 2004
78
0
0
jitteringjr said:
Maybe it had nothing to do with morality for you, but it did for me. While I was in the military, I served with people who were served in the first Gulf War. It was through them that I was made aware of the atrocities that Sadam was guilty of and I knew about it 10 years ago.

The real shame is that it took the mention of WMD (however wrong the analysis did turn out to be) in the wake of the largest terrorist attack in the history of the U.S. for us to do something about it. Why aren't crimes against humanity by a tyrant dictator enough motivation for the UN to step in and do something?

The U.S. and a bunch of other admirable countries stepped in to protect the little guy and that is something that I am proud of. You can talk for years like a Monday morning armchair quarterback and analyze the methods if you want, because we could have done a great number of things better, but the fact is, we did something about it. We did something that needed to be done.

The war in Iraq was indeed illegal and in a perfect world Bush and co. would be brought before the Hague. America can't hold up one UN resolution to justify their war and then circumvent another to initiate it -- that's called hypocrisy. Is the UN a giant slow moving behemoth of a bureaucracy? You got it, but it is also the closest thing to an international democratic authority that exists. The WMD line was always a sham from the get go and there are plenty of other petty dictators out there as well if it was just about being altruistic; the current administration had designs on Iraq before they even took office. Wolfowitz, Pearl, Cheney and Rumsfield all have there names on documents dating from '97 that outlined they're plans for the Middle East and Iraq in particular. Its called the Project for a New American Century, look it up. The only thing being fought for in Iraq is US Hegemony in the middle east, and likely oil.

By the way, nice thread you right wing nuts, and nice culture you got going there. Concealed weapons on our bike rides = OK,
Janet Jackson’s nipple = Scandalous
 

Hazmat

New Member
Oct 7, 2004
39
0
0
48
pomod said:
The war in Iraq was indeed illegal and in a perfect world Bush and co. would be brought before the Hague. America can't hold up one UN resolution to justify their war and then circumvent another to initiate it -- that's called hypocrisy. Is the UN a giant slow moving behemoth of a bureaucracy? You got it, but it is also the closest thing to an international democratic authority that exists. The WMD line was always a sham; the current administration had designs on Iraq before they even took office. Wolfowitz, Pearl, Cheney and Rumsfield all have there names on documents dating from '97 that outlined they're plans for the Middle East and Iraq in particular. Its called the Project for a New American Century, look it up. The only thing being fought for in Iraq is US Hegemony in the middle east, and likely oil. There is not a big conceptual leap here between the type of paranoia that supports this war and that that justifies carrying a gun during a leisure activity such as cycling.

By the way, nice thread you right wing nuts, and nice culture you got going there. Concealed weapons on our bike rides = OK,
Janet Jackson’s nipple = Scandalous
you're absolutely right, the people of Iraq are far worse off now. Genocide is far preferable to this.



HATRA, Iraq (AFP) - Forensic experts digging for evidence against ousted Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) have carried out their first full exhumation of a mass grave filled with the skeletons of scores of women and children, many shot in the back of the head.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/041013/photos_wl_me_afp/041013121948_uxfcmx7o_photo0


"This is all women and children. We have taken in excess of 120 bodies out of there," US investigator Greg Kehoe said Wednesday as he stood over one of nine trenches piled with bones and scraps of clothes and jewelry near the northern Iraqi town of Hatra.



Among the dead are pregnant women, even a young boy still clutching his ball, whose bodies were ploughed into their earthen tombs by bulldozers.



"This is something in the time Ive been doing mass graves Ive never seen done before," said Kehoe, a lawyer who has also worked in the Balkans.



The bodies are believed to be those of hundreds of Kurds killed by Saddam's feared regime in a deadly campaign in 1987 and 1988, for which the toppled Iraqi leader is facing trial on charges of crimes against humanity.



"These bodies were just pushed in. It was all women and children. No men. All these people were executed with small arms fire... (It) includes pregnant woman," said Kehoe.



There are about 40 known mass graves in Iraq (news - web sites) containing possibly tens thousands of bodies dumped by Saddam's regime.



But exhumation has in many cases been a free-for-all, with relatives searching for loved ones in the early days after the fall of Baghdad accidentally destroying or tampering with evidence that could be used against Saddam.



Kehoe and a team of US, British and Iraqi forensic experts are now conducting full scientific exhumations to preserve hard evidence, uncovering the ghastly horrors of the old regime.



Saddam, who first appeared before a court in July, faces seven charges including the 1987-88 offensive that saw Kurdish villages razed in northern Iraq and the gassing of the village of Halabja, which left 5,000 people dead.



Kehoe said the Hatra grave was the first to be exhumed according to international standards since his appointment last December, but said his team hopes to work on another 10 sites.



"Were trying to meet international standards that have been accepted by courts throughout the world," Kehoe said.



"One woman when she was executed was carrying her two-year old child, shot in the back of the head. She was shot in the face," he said.



The former US prosecutor's voice cracked as he showed slides of some of the victims.



"This is a young boy with a ball, still holding onto the ball when we uncovered him... This is the little ball he was holding onto, you see his little arm right here, this little ball, this little arm, this little boy."



In the end, he hopes to be able to identify the bodies and return them to families.



"Everybody said never again after the Holocaust. The world wasnt listening. Thats how it happened again and again and again."







He said he thinks often about the piles of children's bones he has seen lying in the dirt. "Sometimes, you go in there, you see soldiers, and it's not to justify it, but my God, little babies, women, with their children shot in the back of the head.. Why," he asked in a whisper.

 

pomod

New Member
Apr 27, 2004
78
0
0
Hazmat said:
you're absolutely right, the people of Iraq are far worse off now. Genocide is far preferable to this.

If by genocide you're referring to the often cited gassing of the Kurds in the late 80's, the US were more than happy to look the other way as long as Saddam was fighting with Iran. The US was supplying him with weapons at that time; he was an ally.

To answer your question, I would say that yes, the Iraqi people are definitely worse off now. The US has created an anarchic disaster there that more diplomatic perseverance and the support of the international community would have avoided. All that's been accomplished is to take any suspicions the Middle East may have had of the US and galvanize it into hatred. Your creating more terrorists than you're destroying and destabilizing the entire region.
 

leslierc8853

New Member
Sep 11, 2004
65
0
0
69
Hazmat said:
Austin, TX is a fairly safe city, but there are definitely parts where you can get FUBAR'd or shot for being the wrong ethnicity



yes, that is unlikely, but if they see you coming and don't like the way you look/think you shouldn't be in their hood, or may simply be chemically influenced, they may be more than happy to meet you by the time you reach them



not if it is concealed as has been the point almost throughout the entire thread. This is all about preparation for the unknown, and being ready for potential reactionary measures. No one (that I remember reading) was taking a proactive stance suggesting that just cause you happen to see something you don't like you start waving your weapon around (nor was the that the point in about the AZ laws).



I don't think anyone is suggesting it should be


any proper class will tell you that as well, repeatedly


Well, lets see, they might be dead, or severely mutilated, or worse. I don't know about you, but if I am attacked, if my girlfriend were attacked, or my mom, or my brother (no, wait, he's a quicker draw than I) I would have absolutely zero compunction (sp?) about stopping him/her/them with lethal force. Again, I don't know about you, but I refuse to allow some scumbag to dictate the course of my life, to decide if I am worthy of his "mercy, if my life has merit. No.
We do what we feel we must under the circumstances. You have taken my thoughts and opinions out of context for reasons unknown. All I was/am saying is that I have known people who have killed and have felt deep regret for their actions. My hope is that I am never placed in a situation where I am compelled to take the life of another human being; perhaps not so much because I wouldn't do what I must do, but because I would have compunction (the sting of conscience) regarding what I did.
 

fixit

New Member
Aug 19, 2004
228
0
0
dhk said:
Jschenk: Would like to be clear about gun ownership in switzerland. In addition to keeping your military-issue weapon, can a citizen also buy and keep a hunting rifle at home? Is it possible for an ordinary citizen to buy and carry a handgun? How is ammunition controlled?

In switzerland everybody can buy a handgun or rifle from a privat person without any license. You just need ID and you have to keep the receipt for ten years. That is it. If want to buy a gun in a shop, you need a license which is very, very easy to get. You can have as many guns as you like. For single shot guns like double barreld shotguns you don`t need a license at all, if the caliber is not bigger than .50 BMG. Same thing with ammo. Fully automatic guns require a special license. You can even buy tanks, artillery guns, mortars, heavy machine guns and fighter jetplanes, not a problem at all. The swiss army organizes auctions, where you can buy all this.
A license to carry a gun is almost impossible to get, exept for like juweliers and securityguards, which is good. Guncontrol is almost not existing. Most people get shot with military rifles, which you have to keep at home together with high velocity, armour piercing ammo called GP90 or GP11.
In switzerland we have an average of 19 guns per capita (7.3 million people), and nothing ever happens. About 8 people get shot every year, most of them by stray police bullets.

Don't missunderstand me, I'm FOR guncontrol and AGAINST the right to carry a weapon of any kind.
I own 26 guns, handguns, assault rifles, sniper rifles and shotguns, from .22 to .50 BMG.
Gunownership requires a social and responsible attitude towards other people. You also need a culture of solving problems, which goes beyond getting your personal rights. America is lightyears away from all this.

American soil is bloodsoaked, what goes around comes around, as long as you think it is was right what the spanish, portugies, brits and later all the european immigrants did, you will have major problems. American culture is is based on personal rights, ego rights, most americans don't give a **** about other people, countries or ways of life. This is universally known as fashism.

If you want to life in peace, give back 'your' great country to the people it belongs to. God has not forgotten all of this injustice and maybe all your social problems are Gods payback.

Good luck
 

Joe West

New Member
Sep 17, 2004
156
2
0
Awesome collection of weapons! While I'm not sure why you'd own so many weapons but be for gun control and against the right to carry (I'm assuming you mean open or concealed carry), you clearly have some sort of appreciation for weapons.

I wouldn't agree that most Americans don't care about the rest of the world... certainly some do not.

We are indeed a country based on individual freedoms (as opposed to giving up individual freedoms for the benefit of "society" or "security"). I think being raised in a culture based on fundamental individual rights is what makes this country the only remaining superpower in the world. For all the negative things you might think about how overrated individual rights are, one thing is for sure; it clearly makes for a very strong country.

I honestly believe that a great deal of the world has had the desire for personal freedom bred out of them, which is why they can't understand America... they can't understand something which has long ago ceased to be a part of their culture.

Kind Regards,

Joe West

fixit said:
<snip>
Don't missunderstand me, I'm FOR guncontrol and AGAINST the right to carry a weapon of any kind.
I own 26 guns, handguns, assault rifles, sniper rifles and shotguns, from .22 to .50 BMG.

American culture is is based on personal rights, ego rights, most americans don't give a **** about other people, countries or ways of life. This is universally known as fashism.

<snip>
Good luck
 

dhk

New Member
Sep 1, 2003
2,259
0
0
74
fixit said:
In switzerland everybody can buy a handgun or rifle from a privat person without any license. You just need ID and you have to keep the receipt for ten years. That is it. If want to buy a gun in a shop, you need a license which is very, very easy to get. You can have as many guns as you like. For single shot guns like double barreld shotguns you don`t need a license at all, if the caliber is not bigger than .50 BMG. Same thing with ammo. Fully automatic guns require a special license. You can even buy tanks, artillery guns, mortars, heavy machine guns and fighter jetplanes, not a problem at all. The swiss army organizes auctions, where you can buy all this.
A license to carry a gun is almost impossible to get, exept for like juweliers and securityguards, which is good. Guncontrol is almost not existing. Most people get shot with military rifles, which you have to keep at home together with high velocity, armour piercing ammo called GP90 or GP11.
In switzerland we have an average of 19 guns per capita (7.3 million people), and nothing ever happens. About 8 people get shot every year, most of them by stray police bullets.

Don't missunderstand me, I'm FOR guncontrol and AGAINST the right to carry a weapon of any kind.
I own 26 guns, handguns, assault rifles, sniper rifles and shotguns, from .22 to .50 BMG.
Gunownership requires a social and responsible attitude towards other people. You also need a culture of solving problems, which goes beyond getting your personal rights. America is lightyears away from all this.

American soil is bloodsoaked, what goes around comes around, as long as you think it is was right what the spanish, portugies, brits and later all the european immigrants did, you will have major problems. American culture is is based on personal rights, ego rights, most americans don't give a **** about other people, countries or ways of life. This is universally known as fashism.

If you want to life in peace, give back 'your' great country to the people it belongs to. God has not forgotten all of this injustice and maybe all your social problems are Gods payback.

Good luck

Thanks for answering my questions about Switzerland gun laws clearly. Appreciate that you responded in English as well.

I can understand your view of America, but believe you are only looking at one segment of our diverse culture. There are many kind and compassionate people here with a social conscience, just like in your country.
 

str8shooter

New Member
Jul 15, 2004
20
0
0
69
Should I carry a gun while riding? Well guys and girls whereever your from, thats my decision as a law abiding American Citizen.

Some twenty five years ago I applied for my NY State pistol permit. I went through all the backround checks and so on and so forth required to obtain my carry permit. I was granted my permit 31/2 months later. With all the new gun control legislation initiated over the recent years. I have been subjected to a backround check evertime I purchased a new gun. Did this bother me no!!! because I knew I'd be walking out of the gunshop with my new gun. Why? I knew my status a law abiding citzen is still intact, and I still have the priviledges and rights to gun ownership.

Odds are you'll never see me carrying a gun on my rides, but should I choose to I think the lifestyle I've led for the past 52 years earned me the priviledge to.

Freedom of choice is whats great about America.

Lets hope it stays like that for ever.
 

Joe West

New Member
Sep 17, 2004
156
2
0
Do I hear an AMEN brothers and sisters?
:D

AMEN!

str8shooter said:
Should I carry a gun while riding? Well guys and girls whereever your from, thats my decision as a law abiding American Citizen.

<snip>

Freedom of choice is whats great about America.

Lets hope it stays like that for ever.
 

szbert

New Member
Oct 12, 2004
336
2
0
I wish a holster maker would make a nice saddle mounted, fully closed holster to fit under my saddle. It would also have to hold my patch kit and co2. It would likely have to by for small frame autos, or J frame smith type revolvers. I think a kydex holster for stiffness with a nylon flap and nylon bag would be awesome.

If it fit a ppk size, or a Glock 26/27 size that would be way cool. A spare mag pouch wouldn't be bad either.

Only YOU can prevent yourself from being just another victim.

Weisse Luft said:
AMEN my AZ brother! Amen.
 

Similar threads