How many of you carry a gun as part of your cycling equipment?



Joe West

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Sep 17, 2004
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Hmmm.... I know the guy here in Arizona who makes Predator Kydex Holsters. I'll visit his shop and see if there is anything he can put together. He's custom making an IWB holster for my backup Guardian .380 (in case my Sig P245 .45 isn't sufficient).

Are saddle rails a fixed distance apart (i.e, is there a standard?)

Joe


szbert said:
I wish a holster maker would make a nice saddle mounted, fully closed holster to fit under my saddle. It would also have to hold my patch kit and co2. It would likely have to by for small frame autos, or J frame smith type revolvers. I think a kydex holster for stiffness with a nylon flap and nylon bag would be awesome.

If it fit a ppk size, or a Glock 26/27 size that would be way cool. A spare mag pouch wouldn't be bad either.

Only YOU can prevent yourself from being just another victim.
 

fixit

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Aug 19, 2004
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dhk said:
Thanks for answering my questions about Switzerland gun laws clearly. Appreciate that you responded in English as well.

I can understand your view of America, but believe you are only looking at one segment of our diverse culture. There are many kind and compassionate people here with a social conscience, just like in your country.

i do believe you because i spent about two years in the us in different states and most people i met were very friendly and hard working. i would never say that swiss people in general have more social conscience than americans, but here you're forced by law to have it and that's good.
what i ask myself is, if most people are ok, why is the government (which should reflect the people) so terribly bad and run by people who act in the interest of companies instead of the interest of the people? how can you accept that they spend way more money on supporting companies and the military (in ch we spend 30% of the gdp on the military,not sure but in the us it is 60%, but we have, per capita, the biggest army in the world - 1 million soldiers under arms within 24h), than on education and healthcare? because these are the things that make the situation better. less (social) security means you have more people who have nothing to loose and this is the reason for more violent crime. in all countries where people get enough pension money and can afford to get medical treatment, violent crime is never as high as in the us. why is that, are americans more violent? i don't think so. why is this then?
 

fixit

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Aug 19, 2004
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Joe West said:
Awesome collection of weapons! While I'm not sure why you'd own so many weapons but be for gun control and against the right to carry (I'm assuming you mean open or concealed carry), you clearly have some sort of appreciation for weapons.

I wouldn't agree that most Americans don't care about the rest of the world... certainly some do not.

We are indeed a country based on individual freedoms (as opposed to giving up individual freedoms for the benefit of "society" or "security"). I think being raised in a culture based on fundamental individual rights is what makes this country the only remaining superpower in the world. For all the negative things you might think about how overrated individual rights are, one thing is for sure; it clearly makes for a very strong country.

I honestly believe that a great deal of the world has had the desire for personal freedom bred out of them, which is why they can't understand America... they can't understand something which has long ago ceased to be a part of their culture.

Kind Regards,

Joe West

in your family or with your friends, do you think your personal freedom is more important than the freedom of the group?
do you believe you can be strong over a longer period of time, if you have to constantly defend yourself and if you have to pay others to be your friends?
by the way, in ch the cantons (states) are extremly independent. police, education, public transport, tax system and alot more is in their hands.

looking forward to your answer
 

Ruedy

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Jun 17, 2004
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Looks like some good discussion here. I only looked at pages 1,2, 16 and 17.

In America you pretty much have the freedon to do as you please as long as you don't infringe on others, so they say.

I've had a concealed weapons permit for many years. I'm well trained in firearms usage, including military service but, I almost never carry a firearm. It's just too much of a hassle. You have to always keep it in the back of your mind that you are "packing heat."........It would be just my luck to forget one day and walk in somewhere where firearms are not welcome.

Carry a gun on my bike?.....Never really thought of it, but it is nice to know the option is available.
 

Joe West

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Sep 17, 2004
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Yes. EVERYONE'S personal freedom is VASTLY more important than the freedom of the group.

The reason?

Everyone's idea of freedom is different. While you will never get a group to determine what "free" means... you CAN get each INDIVIDUAL to determine what freedom means to them. Rather than limit the individual's freedom to that agreed upon by a "group", you let the individual determine what freedom means to them.

A group will always be dragged down to the lowest common denominator. I don't want ANYONE deciding what freedom means for me.

Joe


fixit said:
in your family or with your friends, do you think your personal freedom is more important than the freedom of the group?
 

toolsmell

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Oct 10, 2004
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My last firearm purchase was a Ruger P90 .45 caliber. It's extremely heavy and bulky. I doubt I would ever get used to carrying it on the trail. But why would I need to carry it anyway?

My friends did come across a dead body in the Tillamook State Forrest a couple years ago, but I don't think a corpse with a bullet hole in it is going to hurt anyone.

There are frequent cougar and black bear sightings around here. If a cougar decided to pounce on one my friends while riding, I suppose I could use a firearm to scare the cougar off before it finished its meal. But, Bears are less likely to be scared. You'd probably have to make a couple of heads shots on a bear to have any effect. Given the hit-to-miss ratio, you're likely to need extra clips. BTW, I would never advise anyone to shoot at a bear unless it were a life threatening situtation.

Anyway, there seems to be no end of "What if?" situations for which a firearm might come in handy. My best advice is to ride in groups when possible. There seems to be safety in numbers.

In closing, I hope I never have to use a gun to protect myself or my family, but I know where it is if I need it.

Thank you! <EOM>
 

pomod

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Apr 27, 2004
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Joe West said:
Yes. EVERYONE'S personal freedom is VASTLY more important than the freedom of the group.

The reason?

Everyone's idea of freedom is different. While you will never get a group to determine what "free" means... you CAN get each INDIVIDUAL to determine what freedom means to them. Rather than limit the individual's freedom to that agreed upon by a "group", you let the individual determine what freedom means to them.

A group will always be dragged down to the lowest common denominator. I don't want ANYONE deciding what freedom means for me.

Joe

Sadly, concepts of humility and modesty are rare in America. Everyone would be safer if they thought a little more about these ideas, instead I, me, mine.
 

ProfTournesol

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Aug 22, 2003
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Joe West said:
Yes. EVERYONE'S personal freedom is VASTLY more important than the freedom of the group.

The reason?

Everyone's idea of freedom is different. While you will never get a group to determine what "free" means... you CAN get each INDIVIDUAL to determine what freedom means to them. Rather than limit the individual's freedom to that agreed upon by a "group", you let the individual determine what freedom means to them.

A group will always be dragged down to the lowest common denominator. I don't want ANYONE deciding what freedom means for me.

Joe

that sounds like anarchy to me. Like it or not we are group animals, and rules are the price of society. There seems to be this particularly American view of 'personal freedom' that denies the reality of our human condition. You can't have freedom in a vacuum - it's always in relation to the group: for example if I decide to take the freedom to blow you away with the large collection of concealed weapons I carry with me on my bike (because I hate people with Shimano groupsets for instance) I do this at the expense of your freedom.

If you really don't accept 'other people deciding what freedom means for you' why don't you try riding home on the wrong side of the road. This will give you a short but painful lesson on why we have rules that restrict absolute freedom, and their practical benefits. they make life better for you.
 
S

SpearSlinger1

Guest
The thing that people everywhere tend to loose sight of is that right along with Rights comes Responsibility. I have every Right to make a fist and swing it all day long. It is, however, my Responsibility to ensure that my fist does not come in contact with Joe's nose. As soon as Joe thinks his nose may be in peril, it's his Right, even his Responsibility, to defend himself.

The problem is that too many people can't understand, and are even afraid of, this way of thinking, prefering to give up Rights to abdicate Responsibility to their government.
It's the, "It's-not-my-fault-thing." These are the people that prefer to be told they can't make a fist. That way the blow can't be their fault if the government told them they couldn't make a fist.
 

less'go

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Sep 11, 2003
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And I thought that babybunny thread was whacked!:eek:

SpearSlinger1 said:
The thing that people everywhere tend to loose sight of is that right along with Rights comes Responsibility. I have every Right to make a fist and swing it all day long. It is, however, my Responsibility to ensure that my fist does not come in contact with Joe's nose. As soon as Joe thinks his nose may be in peril, it's his Right, even his Responsibility, to defend himself.

The problem is that too many people can't understand, and are even afraid of, this way of thinking, prefering to give up Rights to abdicate Responsibility to their government.
It's the, "It's-not-my-fault-thing." These are the people that prefer to be told they can't make a fist. That way the blow can't be their fault if the government told them they couldn't make a fist.
 

Joe West

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Sep 17, 2004
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But you see... I *can* ride on the wrong side of the road if I choose. I am absolutely free to do so. If something bad happens to me, then I, as a responsible adult accept the consequences.

Accepting traffic rules is MUCH different than accepting gun control laws. No where in the US consitution does it say "the right of any US citizen to drive on any side of the road shall be guaranteed"

PS. I do sometimes ride on the wrong side of the road, I run with scissors, I spit into the wind, I pulled the mask off of the Lone Ranger and I messed around with Slim (or was it Jim?) :D



ProfTournesol said:
If you really don't accept 'other people deciding what freedom means for you' why don't you try riding home on the wrong side of the road. This will give you a short but painful lesson on why we have rules that restrict absolute freedom, and their practical benefits. they make life better for you.
 

Telegram Sam

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Jul 14, 2004
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less'go said:
And I thought that babybunny thread was whacked!:eek:
Well said- I could see this if it was a joke...but I don't think anyone is joking on this one
I carry a Ruger 9mm on my handlebars. I have a special carbon fiber holster for it and I shoot people who call me a *** in bike shorts, as well as anyone who passes me. I shoot it all the time- any suggestions on welding ammunition boxes to an aluminum rack?
see- now thats a joke
 

remicman

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Aug 2, 2004
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Hitchy said:
G'day,

I carry my AK 47 when i train or race. Don't you try & tell me I shouldn't...I've got a god given right to prptect my family & my trailer against those god damn commies, terrorists, goody two shoes, volvo driving scumbags that wanna take it off me...god damn, you wanna make something of it?...where you at muther?...I'm coming 'round to your tariler & I'm gunna shoot yo' full of holes....Go damn.....now where was I?..Oh yeah...I carry my ak47 & sometimes take my RPG launcher too.....I know they are coming after me!.......gotta protect my family & my trailer, going on springer next week!..."So I married my AK47".......It comes in handy during a race...don't you god damn get in my way...."YO' you come back here mofo...don't you be dropping me on no climbs.....I ain't outta bullets yet.....got more at the next feed stop...plenty of jack daniels in the bidon.......Did you have trouble getting bike racks to fit your hummer?......MOFO government, can you believe they let someone other than an American win bikes races?.......I like Lance, he's from TExas ya know...bet he's got an AK 47 too!
Hitchy...LOL! My sentiments exactly.
 

fixit

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Aug 19, 2004
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ProfTournesol said:
that sounds like anarchy to me. Like it or not we are group animals, and rules are the price of society. There seems to be this particularly American view of 'personal freedom' that denies the reality of our human condition. You can't have freedom in a vacuum - it's always in relation to the group: for example if I decide to take the freedom to blow you away with the large collection of concealed weapons I carry with me on my bike (because I hate people with Shimano groupsets for instance) I do this at the expense of your freedom.

If you really don't accept 'other people deciding what freedom means for you' why don't you try riding home on the wrong side of the road. This will give you a short but painful lesson on why we have rules that restrict absolute freedom, and their practical benefits. they make life better for you.

very good point there ProfTournesol.
what i would like to know from an american is, what freedom do you have, that we in europe or the rest of the western world don't have?

fixit
 

Joe West

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Sep 17, 2004
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We can whup up on any other country and do whatever we want, whenever we want? We can ignore the United Nations?

Yikes! There I go sounding like an arrogant American.

:D

Joe


fixit said:
very good point there ProfTournesol.
what i would like to know from an american is, what freedom do you have, that we in europe or the rest of the western world don't have?

fixit
 

ritcho

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May 24, 2004
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Joe West said:
We can whup up on any other country and do whatever we want, whenever we want? We can ignore the United Nations?

Yikes! There I go sounding like an arrogant American.

:D

Joe

Ignore the UN? Sheesh - even North Korea can do that! Perhaps the US can try whupping (sic) on them - they actually have WMDs and have nothing to lose. :D

Ritch
 

bishan

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Oct 20, 2004
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It's that USA 'swagger' that has helped end tyranny around the world.

As the song goes, God Bless the USA

Joe West said:
We can whup up on any other country and do whatever we want, whenever we want? We can ignore the United Nations?

Yikes! There I go sounding like an arrogant American.

:D

Joe
 

Telegram Sam

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Jul 14, 2004
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bishan said:
It's that USA 'swagger' that has helped end tyranny around the world.

As the song goes, God Bless the USA
ended tyranny, or at least made our brand more palatable