How many of you carry a gun as part of your cycling equipment?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Joe West, Oct 2, 2004.

  1. grandamn

    grandamn New Member

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    [SIZE= medium]Being American SHOULD give anyone the right to do anything they want as long as they do not harm or create any hardships for any other citizen. Unions, Nanny States, and the disrespect of opposing views are driving this country into the crapper. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE= medium]I will decide when my children can start to drink. Italy has no drinking age and a much smaller ratio of alcoholics. I will decide if I want to purchase healthcare or not. Women have the right to an abortion but nobody has the right to decided anything else. I decided not to take a safe government job with some big pension in order to chase the American dream. Why am I punished because of this? If I want to use a gun to protect myself I should have every right. If it wasn’t in the constitution, politicians would have banned those years ago. Thank God for our founding fathers insight. I do not feel one bit guilty for buying an Italian bike, better than my money going to a union to run politics and take more of my money. I will never buy an American car again either. [/SIZE]
     
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  2. daviddb

    daviddb New Member

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    Thanks for the bear info.....I'll let you know.

    :~}

    as always


    David
     
  3. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    I picked up a nice, used CZ-82 a few months ago. Classic Arms (Arizona, IIRC) has them for $199 w/two magazines, a holster, lanyard and cleaning rod. I recommend the 16-pound recoil spring from Wolff Gun Springs as the factory 14-pound spring feels a bit weak. They are not as lightweight or small as...say...an LCP or P38T, but the little Makarov round packs a pit more punch and the additional weight adds a bit of control on follow-up shots.

    Definitely not the pistol to take on rides with lots of climbing, but the low buy-in cost makes it a decent option for the budget-minded. It's steel, so keep it oiled in the summer months.


    [​IMG]
     
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  4. z44z

    z44z New Member

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    I know that guns and fast cars are often used by insecure males to compensate for being undersized in their underwear, but really....

    The OP must think his privates look puny to non-existent when he wears cycling shorts.

     
  5. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Prodigalcyclist, oops - my mistake, you're not that person. Well, no matter...

    Someone openly carrying a firearm will preclude most, if not all, attacks. It must also be supposed that the individual carrying openly may antagonize the some (other) nutcase into firing on that unsuspecting armed individual or attempting to run the carrying individual down. I understand your feigned ignorance was strictly for effect, but you could've done better IMO...

    Strawman arguments aside, you're out riding your bike and you've got your hands on the handlebars (of course) and someone accosts you expectedly or unexpectedly - do you truly believe that individual is going to give you time to go into your bag, where your lethal weapon is properly stored while riding, and pull it out so you can "walk away from such occurences(sp)"? Rhetorical question, but my answer is "definitely not".

    For the umpteenth time - I'm not against guns, but the argument on the table is not is one for or against gun ownership, it pertains to carrying a weapon while riding a bike. Law enforcement/security and individuals riding in the backcountry (animals) - sure, but individuals riding in the city and populated areas - no, too many potentialities for disaster. If a person fears for their life while riding a bike such that they're compelled to arm themselves need to: choose not to ride in that(those) area(s), invest those funds in a down payment for a domicile in a safer location, and/or invest in any one of the virtual reality trainers on the market. My opinion of course - and I'm entitled too...

    Some people need more apparati than others to feel secure and safe - so be it...

    edit: typo
     
  6. 6061-T6

    6061-T6 New Member

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    [SIZE= 10pt]One could carry a revolver (concealed or open) with the hammer on an empty cylinder in case they fall or drop it and still use the firearm with one hand. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE= 10pt]To use an auto loading pistol with an empty chamber would require two hands to work the slide prior to using it. You don't want to be like the airlines pilot who managed to accidentally shoot a hole in the cockpit a year or two ago with the gun he had (legally) in his briefcase (presumably with a loaded chamber or cylinder under the hammer). [/SIZE]

    [SIZE= 10pt]Between politics and philosophy in all of the responses to this thread the real issue of what is LEGAL in any given state, county and city is noticeably absent. What is perfectly legal in Arizona, Texas or dozens of other states can get you jailed in California, New York, Massachusetts or dozens of other states.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE= 10pt]Anybody who is considering owing or especially carrying a firearm should have a talk with a knowledgeable person at their local police station to see what is legal in their city and county.[/SIZE]
     
  7. skunkhome

    skunkhome New Member

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    Gee, Routier, I guess you have never heard of the Velo-dog Revolver once carried by bikers in France, Belgium, and western Europe. The Velo- Dog cartidge was designed by a Frenchman specifically to shoot dogs that menaced cyclists. So much for typical American behaviour. Nothing like self-rightous indignation. As for "Bowling for Columbine"... some people will believe anything flashed up on the silver screen.
     
  8. theBreadSultan

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    Well I didn't come here to comment on guns, but I just can't resist a contentious topic.

    3 points I thought I would mention, and why I am not sure it's really a good idea to carry a gun while cycling.

    1. As told to me by an armed police officer - a holstered gun is useless if your attacker is less than 12 feet away - as they will be able to close that distance before you are able to react, pull out, cock and aim your weapon - This is particularly true if the person is armed with a knife, for obvious reasons. - and that 12 feet is the distance if you have police training and your gun is in an easy access holster.

    2. my second point is a quote from a film (can't remember which i'm afraid) - when some badass gangster type was asked why he didn't carry a gun he replied something to the effect of:
    "If you carry a gun then your gonna pull it out and there is a chance your gonna get shot. If you don't carry a gun, you give up and get to live. People only want to shoot you if you've got a gun"

    3. If push comes to shove a nice lock - or even the bike itself double up as very good weapons - Also you should be able to cycle away because your on a bike - and nothing but a motorcycle willing to break the rules of the road can catch a bike

    BAH

    anyway - back to reading about tires
     
  9. KD5NRH

    KD5NRH New Member

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    Originally Posted by theBreadSultan .

    1. As told to me by an armed police officer - a holstered gun is useless if your attacker is less than 12 feet away - as they will be able to close that distance before you are able to react, pull out, cock and aim your weapon - This is particularly true if the person is armed with a knife, for obvious reasons. - and that 12 feet is the distance if you have police training and your gun is in an easy access holster.

    2. my second point is a quote from a film (can't remember which i'm afraid) - when some badass gangster type was asked why he didn't carry a gun he replied something to the effect of:
    "If you carry a gun then your gonna pull it out and there is a chance your gonna get shot. If you don't carry a gun, you give up and get to live. People only want to shoot you if you've got a gun"

    3. If push comes to shove a nice lock - or even the bike itself double up as very good weapons - Also you should be able to cycle away because your on a bike - and nothing but a motorcycle willing to break the rules of the road can catch a bike


    1: So why did he bother to carry a gun? It's possible to already be in hand to hand combat and still shoot.

    2: You get a lot of your education from movies? Real world fact; people without guns get shot too - often even people who already gave up or never had a chance to give up. If I have to pull my gun, it will be because the decision has already been made that I need to shoot someone or something, and I won't be fiddling around giving a heroic monologue and waiting for the attacker to decide to shoot me.

    3: If that was true, there wouldn't be so many cyclists getting run over. If there's not a sidepath you can turn onto, you're stuck with the road, and (with the obvious exception of the fat woman on her little electric cart who shouldn't be much of a threat anyway) everything else on the road can catch you.
     
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  10. Greg Winters

    Greg Winters New Member

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    Haven't we had enough of this gun crap? I thought this was a cycling forum, not a tea bagger social...
     
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  11. theBreadSultan

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    I'm only going to bother to respond to your 3rd point as the first exists in a world of fiction and the second smacks of insecurity and will only lead to a pro / anti gun debate.

    but on your third point about only being able to escape from a fat woman on an electric cart on your bike - perhaps get better at cycling.
    I've yet to see a car that can do an instant 180 turn into oncoming traffic, or make an seamless left (right in the US) turn into fast flowing traffic.
    or if your in the countryside
    hope over a fence and weave through trees. etc.

    only if your cycling through a desert can a car driver catch you.
     
  12. KD5NRH

    KD5NRH New Member

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    The first is quite well proven in many real situations.
    You're already participating in a pro/anti gun debate.
    Traffic doesn't appear at a cyclist's whim, and my car can go 45MPH in reverse. While you're trying to hope your way over a five foot fence (which, granted, is probably easier than hopping over it) in cycling shoes, any determined driver can flatten you. Try weaving through trees in heavy brush on a road bike.
     
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  13. insane

    insane New Member

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    I'm sure this is a topic that is thoroughly argued by many of the members. Don't mind if i weigh in on the topic.

    First of I say yes it would be a good idea to protect yourself while cycling, where I live you don't have much dangers in which you have to protect yourself from while cycling. But on the other hand we have teenagers who are really bad at being gangsters. Since last year there have been cases of these wannabe "gangsters" slashing(with weapons similar to machetes) other wannabe "gangsters" for simple provocations such as staring. And I don't mean to put down the law enforcement in my country but it seems they haven't really done anything to stop this cases, and just 2 weeks ago one happened just 2 streets away from where i live. At times like this when you don't have anyone to protect you or stop stupid young kids from killing each other, you would wish you had a gun.

    But on the other side of the coin i would say no. Roads can get pretty congested around where i live and cycle close to shipping ports. And i was once out with a group of cyclists with an orientation for new cyclists. We were getting the new cyclists used to the road so to speak, and we cycling up in to a congested road so we decided to slow down and come to a stop. When suddenly for no reason a truck driver horns at as repeatedly as we slow down to a stop by the side of the road. And we haven't done anything to provoke the driver neither were we blocking his way the traffic had come to a standstill, in the midst of the blare of the horns. One of the most calmest guys in the group, someone who has never really lost his temper on the road suddenly snaps, and starts banging on the truck's passenger side cabin door, demanding the driver to come out and face him. At times like this when we cyclists are fuelled by road rage i would say no to a gun, cos it happens even to the best of us. If that calm guy had been armed he would have done something stupid in his rage.

    So really the point I'm trying to put across a gun is yes useful where the life of you are someone is precious is in danger. But in the hands of someone who maybe instantly blinded by road-rage which happens to the best of us, isn't the best thing.
     
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  14. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

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    It is obvious that this thread will be going for some time to come. Please note that the title may be changed at some point to " Is it ok for me to disintegrate a hover car with my Phaser if he cuts me off while ride my Astrocycle?"
     
  15. Simonn

    Simonn New Member

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    I want to become a good cyclist..
    give me some guideline to fulfill my target and wish of my life..
     
  16. skunkhome

    skunkhome New Member

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    "3. If push comes to shove a nice lock - or even the bike itself double up as very good weapons - Also you should be able to cycle away because your on a bike - and nothing but a motorcycle willing to break the rules of the road can catch a bike"

    So I guess the rules of the road are going to mean a lot to a person hell bent on committing a felonious assault. I am glad to know that the jaywalking ordnance is going to keep me from being stabbed, or the leash law is going to keep that pit bull from pulling me off my bike.

    I used to know a fella that had three holes in the right pocket of his windbreaker from using the .38 special he kept there. One of his attackers was lucky and ended up with a permanent colostomy but the other two went to the morgue.
     
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  17. theBreadSultan

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    No the rules of the road only apply against a motorbike, if you are against a car. you can get away easy.
    It's not even hard, doesn't matter if the car is willing to break the rules of the road or not.
    It's really very easy.

    on a bike you have greater agility, and you can get places that a car cannot.
    Using this to your advantage is very easy.
    example.
    turn into a side street, look behind you, wait until the car is commited to the corner, as soon as he is, 180 up on the pavement - and go back onto the main road.
    the human reaction time is 1,5 seconds, by which time you already going in the opposite direction.
    the car now has to brake, change gear to reverse and then reverse around a corner into a main road and potentially oncoming traffic (i would like to see that done at 45mph)
    by which time you are gone.

    you can also do similar things at junctions, crossroads etc.
    This is just one way in which you can use your agility to out class cars.

    then there is the fact that on a bike you can go places a car cannot.
    I can cycle straight into a large supermarket and out of a fire exit - can you do that in a car?
    I can cycle on the pavement and use the street furniture as a barrier
    I can go up and down stairs.
    down one way streets and directly into on coming traffic.


    and further more, why is this person wanting to kill you with his car?
    I mean for a start if your instigating road rage on someone else then it probably means you have done something wrong (so again - be better at cycling)
    But It would be very unlikely that the person is going to want to kill you. and more to the point stand to lose his liscence because he lost control for a minute.

    No it smacks of paranoia - Guns are basically for scared little people.
    If you manage to get yourself into a situation where someone is genuinly trying to kill you, then (unless your in the forces) you have fucked up at life.

    you are a failure - you probably got yourself into a situation because having a little gun in your pocket makes you feel invincible, so where before you would have been humble and seek to avoid confontation you instead act balsy and rude.

    and if someone is planning to kill how does having a gun help you?
    do you assume that you will see them coming?
    how did guns protect people from the Washington sniper?
    someone want to kill you so they see you cycling on the road and decide to run you over from behind, how does a gun help you?
    or they see you cycling along and decide to aim one of those assault rifles that are legal to just buy in the US.

    I just don't understand a situation that you need a gun to get out of, where common sense, physical fitness and social skills won't do.
     
  18. KD5NRH

    KD5NRH New Member

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    You're assuming advantageous terrain that doesn't exist in most places. In most of the areas I ride, there won't be any place to turn off for 2-3 miles, and there are barbed wire fences on both sides of the road. There aren't any stores to run into, nor are there any sidewalks to hide from your imaginary guy who wants to commit aggravated assault, but absolutely won't commit a misdemeanor traffic violation (or risk scuffing his paint or spoiling his alignment driving through the fence or hopping a curb) to do it.

    Even in town, I'd have to get to the end of the block to turn down a side street. 90% of the cars on the road can reach my bike's top speed in less than a block in forward or reverse gears.

    Of course, by your claims, every murder victim must have done something to deserve it, so you're clearly incapable of logical thought anyway.
     
  19. KD5NRH

    KD5NRH New Member

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    Don't be silly. By that time, hover cars won't have any manual controls.
     
  20. jpr95

    jpr95 Active Member

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    As someone said, those are urban-specific conditions that don't exist in about 95%+ of the areas in the U.S. Many/most of us cycle outside of urban areas as it is far safer and more enjoyable.

    No clear-thinking (sane) person chooses to be a victim or potential victim. Evil people often randomly pick their victims. Having a gun with you greatly reduces your odds of ending up a victim.

    If someone is planning to kill me, having a gun reduces their chances. Without it, their success depends entirely on their skill. With it, I can use my skill with a gun against them.

    Guns didn't protect anyone from the D.C. sniper because guns are rare in the general civilian population in D.C. Snipers give anyone a problem--they are often effective against trained, armed troops, but at least if the targets are armed, they can potentially fight back. Without arms, targets can only take cover and wait in fear if the first shot doesn't kill them.

    Someone running me over from behind is not the only potential threat I may face on a bicycle. There are many others. A gun is a tool that can be applied to many of them, but no tool works for every situation, including your tools of common sense, physical fitness and social skills.

    What is an "assault rifle"? (Answer: it's a trick question--there is no such thing. Damage to an impacted target is far more dependent on the round used than the weapon from which it's fired. Rifle bullets have higher muzzle velocities due to a longer barrel, allowing the gases from the burning powder to act on the bullet for a longer period of time. Grips, stocks, scope mounts, flashlights, etc. have all been used to define an "assault rifle", but are meaningless compared to the ammunition.)

    If someone of greater size or physical skill is intent on harming you, you, too, would be a "scared little person". That's why a common nickname for a gun is "Equalizer". You don't have to be a scared, little person if you're armed. Instead, you can be a law-abiding citizen, not subject to the whims of evil people, be they criminals or kings.

    Jason
     
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