How many of you carry a gun as part of your cycling equipment?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Joe West, Oct 2, 2004.

  1. evanhyde

    evanhyde New Member

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    well here's your good reason. While riding in remote trails in Alaska, it is not uncommon to come around a corner and see a bear. Usually the bear runs away from you. but if you are unlucky enough to run into a bear with cubs or a bear who has associated people with food, you may find yourself in need of some defense in the form of fire power. surely some canadians can relate to this.

    (as far as road biking goes, i agree there is no reason to pack heat)
     


  2. Synpax

    Synpax New Member

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    There aren't any rapists in your country? None at all?

    Or you must be a man.

    I don't need to carry a gun when I ride/run. But I want my mom to.

    The gun is the greatest creation in the history of mankind for the single reason is that in interpersonal conflict, it puts a woman on an equal field with a man.

    Men will target women and other men not because they are strong but because they are weak. They see the weakness and use it against them.

    A firearm eliminates that weakness. Even if the criminal also has a weapon, he is at best on even ground and inevitably, a well trained civilian will out shoot some ghetto thug gangster.
     
  3. Joe West

    Joe West New Member

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    Great point!

    My wife carries as well; pity the man who attacks her.

    Joe


     
  4. fiscem4

    fiscem4 New Member

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    I could not agree more.

    Personally, I live in Harlem (New York, NY) and I most certainly do NOT carry a gun or run into any trouble. If you live in suburbia or in the rural southwest I HIGHLY doubt that you are going to run into any trouble.

    If you think that a gun is the only way to be successful in confrontation you are greatly mistaken. Perhaps people should be forced to take a class on verbal defense before purchasing a weapon.

    Those of you who road bike, I would love to know of anyone who has had or know someone who has had a run-in with an animal which eaither a) they were unable to outrun or b) even showed the most vague interest in a cyclist passing by at 25 mph
     
  5. mymilkexpired

    mymilkexpired New Member

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    i'll admit i read some but not nearly all the posts here (there are a lot). There seems to be a bit of confusion about the use of a concealed weapon... Being from the big TX, i too have my CHL and carry my weapon with me most everywhere i go... Clothing permitting (hey i still have to look nice ;) )

    I think where a lot of the individuals that are speaking out (not attacking) are missing a key point in the law that allows us to carry our weapons.

    1) Yes, they are for self defense, protecting ones self, family, and property are important. A criminal is afforded no additional rights than any other law abiding citizen.
    2) Its for SELF DEFENSE. The use of lethal force (actually discharging your weapon) is a LAST RESORT MEASURE. Its very easy to be found guilty of a number of crimes from abusing your right to carry a weapon. This is the primary reason so many trainers and advanced tactics courses breed the mindset to have other non-lethal ways to protect yourself. You cannot honeslty belive that the law would let someone just shoot another person for running you off the road. You have to be kidding me if you honestly believed that.

    Those that are in anti-gun states / countries miss understand the ground work that CHL laws and permits are founded on. And for the love of all things sacred stop believing everything you see in movies and on TV. News and movies are so damn subjective its almost not even worth the time to watch them these days. Everything story is spun to tell a totally different story or to portray something that they are not.

    /Rant - Dont mean to rant on like this, its just upsetting to see so many people 'bash' something that they dont fully understand because of completely personal and biased reasons.
     
  6. Red Serotta

    Red Serotta New Member

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    Remember that old Disney cartoon where Goofy gets behind the wheel of his car and his personality changes into an agressive demon? I've noticed the similar effect with cyclists on the road. Even my mild-mannered buddies are hurling water bottles at some near-sighted senior citizen who got a bit too close when passing. Strange and impulsive, to say the least.

    Maybe it's the fact that we are "trivialized" when on the road. All a passing motorist would have to do is flick the steering wheel a bit and you're flying off into the ditch on some deserted country road. So, no, I don't carry a gun when riding, I can't trust myself to make a rational and instantaneous life or death decision when on the road. I've found that a telephone provides security enough.

    Ride safe. :eek:
     
  7. Alpha

    Alpha New Member

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    In other words, only weak people carry guns!

    Good point!
     
  8. Alpha

    Alpha New Member

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    Good point!

    But my question is......why hasn't any of the 4 20ish guys already shot you?

    According to your logic, they should also have guns!
     
  9. Alpha

    Alpha New Member

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    Wilderness riding requires you carry a gun. Even then, you better run like hell.
    It takes more than 1 shot to bring down a grizzly or a moose during mating season!
     
  10. Joe West

    Joe West New Member

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    I'm not entirely sure what your point is here. Are you suggesting that it is better not to be carrying a handgun if one of the bad guys has one?

    Regardless of whether or not the bad guy has a handgun... I'd still rather have one than not have one.

    The bottom line is; having options is always better than having no options... and the more options you have; the better.

    Joe

     
  11. wjbieb

    wjbieb New Member

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    I didn't/couldnt' take the time to read allllll 24 pages of ramblings of weapons carried on a ride. I remember when I was riding at a younger age, a guy we rode with thought a log truck passed too close so he flipped him the bird. The logger stopped, got out, the guy got off the bike and they faced off, and the cycling lost because he didn't use his head. Some of these posts are really amazing the ignorance that one uses in their life. Where I ride, there are many cyclists that I see that I laugh and thank god they are not like the guy I remember from when I was younger. Not only can they not stop at signs and lights, but they also can't ride a straight line. If you put a gun in their hand they are going to kill someone. Guns were made for a specific purpose, and think about it! They are made to destroy or kill. Weapons need to be shown their due respect for what they stand for. When you are riding, your pulse rate is high. When you feel threatened, your adrenaline kicks in. Look at a really stressful situation and notice how the body reacts. Your body has to deal with the adrenaline. All of these factors combined into a situation could also affect the judgement of someone that is not properly trained in dealing with such a scenario, and without proper training/safety procedures, most would probably pull the trigger. And like I have seen in quite a few posts, you will be dealing with jail time. Think about it!

    Now, a comment for the canadians. I am going to have to agree with some of the posts I have seen. YOU are not living in the U.S. Just because your country does not allow for certain things that we have the freedom to do here, do not judge that. We don't judge you for not waging war on your enemies. We do not judge you for not carrying weapons. We are all not warfighting babykilling gun totin rednecks down here. Many americans are veterans. Veterans of foreign wars, combat veterans that believe in the freedom that we have gained through history. I am not going to give a history lesson here, but keep in mind that we have a short history, but a very rich history. And that is truly what we believe in.

    I know that based on traditional forums, I will probably have some rebuttals to my thoughts. But remember, they are mine. I own them. I said them. And yes, I fought for my freedom of speech. Just remember that weapons don't win the war, necessarily. The mind does. The mind is your best tool that you can use. When a situation arises, do NOT be ignorant. Consequences to quick decisions sometimes are lifetime.

    I have to just sit here and shake my head at some of the things that were said, and how many people don't care about what is lawful. I respect some of the thoughts that were passed, as they are strictly that: Thoughts. Just remember, there are laws out there that you are 'supposed' to abide by. But your mind and the way you use it can get you out of many stressful situations. Trust me on this. Also, on the O.C. spray....or CS as some of you have referred to, you should check your state laws on that and see what the legal percentage you are allowed to carry before you buy that one off the internet and carry it.

    Touching on the scenario of some guy passing too close to you, then stopping, and you pulling out your .280 or .22......or your shotgun for that matter! Just remember that your actions if you both escalate the situation or no better than doing the same in YOUR car and both of you pulling over to the side of the road to discuss the problem. It's called...hmmm...road rage. Granted, I have had some close calls from ignorant people. Those are the ones that are usually on the cell phone, driving too fast, not paying attention...etc.......But I do NOT carry my firearm with me while riding. OC spray, yes. I am trained with both items for my job. I DO carry a firearm at work, and spray. Do I know how to read a situation? Yes. Do I carry off duty in other situations? Yes. Do I carry while riding however? NO. About spray not warding off 4 attackers: crap. I have seen situations where one person is in a situation where there maybe be 48 would be attackers. The officer is protected with JUST spray. And a radio. But his mind is his tool. So to ward off 4 punks passing by in a car: Yes. Spray is efficient. You don't empty your can on one guy. 1/2 second bursts are sufficient.

    I've rambled enough now to feel like I am preaching here. And remember, I did not pick out and single out anyone's personal ID. So don't take things personally and feel the need to bash me in rebuttal. And just remember: The truth only hurts those that KNOW it's the TRUTH!

    OUT.
     
  12. leslierc8853

    leslierc8853 New Member

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    I agree with all that you have said, particularly about using your mind in all situations. In fact, I recently had a discussion with my teenage daughter advising her to always think first and act second, and that her mind is her strongest weapon in any type of situation. I'm sure that all of us have experienced the occurrence where we acted to our peril and then thought about it only to realize that the action was either in error or perhaps overly excessive. I purchased a Walther P99 .40 S&W handgun about a month ago. I purchased it to protect my home and my family because we have just built a new house in a neighborhood that is in transition. Frankly, it took many months of thought and research to finally decide on purchasing a firearm and my greatest fear is to have to use it. I believe that all life is precious even that of my enemies. I would rather retreat than have to shoot someone; but I will not retreat from my home. So, home is where the weapon will stay. When I ride my Kestrel Talon (w/Dura Ace), my Tarmac S-Works (w/Dura Ace), or my Giant TCR (w/Ultegra) I will use the same brain that took me to the career that enabled me to buy the luxury house, Lexus cars, fancy bicycles, etc., because I don't want to give any of that up, or my life, due to a simple lapse of judgment.
     
  13. Alpha

    Alpha New Member

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    I certainly agree with you on most if not all points. Obviously you or a police officer. Officers in Canada also carry their weapon off duty.
    Your right it is not the gun that kills, it is the heat of the moment reaction and the consequences that follow.
    As for your comment about not waging war on our enemies, we don't have any enemies to wage war against!
    I appreciate the fact that veterans fought for our freedom. Canadian and American veterans, as we also have many veterans in Canada.

    Bottom line is, I agree with a gun in the home for protection. But when you feel you need to carry a gun with you at all times to feel safe, it is a sad society we live in! Guns don't make it better!
     
  14. Catabolic Jones

    Catabolic Jones New Member

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    I appreciate the main thrust of your point, Alpha. However, I take umbrage that you would impugn the character of Canadians. Canadians have ALWAYS stood unflinchingly in the front lines against what is CLEARLY evil and inhumane. If you think otherwise, I suggest YOU consult the history books. Of special interest might be the campaigns in Holland in WWII against the SS troops, or Vimy Ridge. I recommend Pierre Berton's account of the latter.

    Other than that, I really enjoyed your post, and your thoughts are welcome here.
     
  15. Alpha

    Alpha New Member

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    If you don't know what the point is, you will not understand the explanation!

    Having options is always better, I agree. But, like I said before, choose your options wisely.
     
  16. Alpha

    Alpha New Member

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    Impugn the character of Canadians???????????????????? Obviously you did not understand the fact that I was talking about the present, not the past.
    I don't need to read any history books to learn about the character of Canadians on the front lines. My lessons came from my father, grandfather and uncles, some of whom are buried in Europe.
    P.S. If you ever come across a WWII time magazine picture of troops returning from a patrol in which they were ambushed by the Germans. Take a good look, it's my uncle! I don't think Pierre can tell the story as well.
     
  17. Joe West

    Joe West New Member

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    I don't think that it indicates a sad society because one chooses to carry a gun. Think of a gun as a tool... not the horrible harbinger of death that the liberal media and some goverments would have you to believe.

    It is a tool... plain and simple. Like any tool; it can be used and it can be mis-used. In the hands of the untrained or the unaware; you re right... "Guns don't make it better".

    However, in the hands of the trained and aware; Guns most definitely DO make it better. I'll keep harping on this... carrying a gun offers options that the lack of a gun doesn't.

    Options are good.

    Joe




     
  18. malcomm

    malcomm New Member

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  19. TheNiceGuy

    TheNiceGuy New Member

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    Didn't read all the posts, but I got an important question:


    Under what circumstances can you "legally" pull a gun and fire? Theft, feeling theatened, assailant with weapon/firearm? What's the deal? Are there any guidelines exactly, or is it more of a crapshoot in court aftewards?

    I'm originaly from Canada, which as many people I am sure have pointed out, doesn't have too many gun issues. But I know the law is a bit vague when it comes to self defense, something along the lines of "useing reasonable force to protect yourself", which I think translates into a judge's interpretation of what you did.
     
  20. Joe West

    Joe West New Member

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    There are few universal "laws" regarding what constitute legal use of force. Here in the US, laws vary WILDLY from state to state.

    That being said... even if there were universal gun laws here in the states, each individual court would likely view them differently on a case by case basis.

    Very little is black and white... which is why you want to avoid using lethal force with a weapon to the greatest extent possible.

    As anyone who has EVER used lethal force with a weapon knows... it will flat change your life (if not destroy it) forever.

    Joe West


     
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