How many of you carry a gun as part of your cycling equipment?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Joe West, Oct 2, 2004.

  1. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Like everything in life, there are rules.

    In the case of firearms the rules have never been so important to know and adhere to.

    1. Treat every firearm as if it's loaded.

    2. Never point a firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy.

    3. Always be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

    4. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and ready to fire.
     


  2. MotownBikeBoy

    MotownBikeBoy Active Member

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    I guess it depends on how you measure or define "safe". Average life expectancy in countries like the U.S. are at an all-time high - so I guess in that context we are as safe as we have ever been.

    I think people in other countries just don't understand daily life here. My own region, Metro Detroit, is a great place to live (well, winters suck) - but people only know about how dangerous the City of Detroit proper is.

    The kind of violence people see in the media is NOT the day to day experience of average Americans. It happens - but so do tornados, floods, disease, car and plane crashes. You can't live in fear over something unlikely to happen - but people like Bob who prepare for the possible have my respect - it isn't necessarily imprudent to be prepared for the rare violent encounter any more so than to have an earthquake or tornado emergency plan.

    Hey, I go to bed every night with the screen doors open for the fresh air, and I don't feel the least bit unsafe.
     
  3. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    My house has never burned to the ground (my barn has!), but I still keep several fire extinguishers charged and at the ready.

    A firearm is a fire extinguisher for a different kind of fire.
     
  4. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

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    Bob you have a farm to bury those.......extinguished board and all I have is a lake. They tend to float up so I recommend aluminum cable and blocks. Chicken wire makes a nice wrap but tends to deteriorate too soon.
     
  5. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Always remember the Three 'S' Rule...

    1. Shoot.
    2. Shovel.
    3. Shut up!
     
  6. Volnix

    Volnix Well-Known Member

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    So much for "To serve and protect". :D

    At least in the movies da LAPD always shows up. :D Even if there is not a coffee shop next to your home! :D

    ...and there is always "that software" that does everything, like print wackos mug shots from the ambient sound of crime scenes and pull out some ghostly shreaks at the same time. :D

    What do you mean, "Carry It"??????? Lololol :D
     
  7. Sunflogun

    Sunflogun Member

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    Never, carry a gun while riding the bike is something that doesn't make sense at all...
     
  8. BikeBikeBikeBike

    BikeBikeBikeBike Well-Known Member

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    I was taught those rules at an early age actually Bob, but thanks for the refresher!
    I was thinking in a broad historical context about things being safe. Pick pretty much any place and any year before 1950 and I currently live in a safer place then pretty much anything you can think of. Also I have been reading about places like DC and NY in the 70's and 80's and those places seemed crazy dangerous compared to what they are like now. I still stand by my words that we live in the safest time to be alive, one of the most privileged times too. I am sure you could dig up a few one offs, but in the big picture anyone born in a first world country in the last 30 years is one lucky soul.

    haha yea those idiots with face tattoos.. never really got the rational behind that life choice.... BUT at least they stand out.
    Assholes in suits (bankers and bureaucrats) are far more dangerous, they have taken far more money from me then any thug has. I guess I suffer from the confirmation bias, never been robbed or held up by thugs before. I knew one guy that was, but it was his one damn fault you don't run your mouth and flaunt wealth in front of desperate people.
     
  9. thomas pendrake

    thomas pendrake New Member

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    A firearm is to a fire extinguisher as a bucket of gasoline is to fire extinguisher. The reason that the US has the highest murder rate of any civilized nation is because we own almost half of the privately owned firearms in the entire world. I have always been a gun owner, and will continue to be. However, I stopped carrying a gun, unless legally hunting, many years ago when I realized that I was all too willing to use it when I had it. Gun owners are far more likely to be mmurdered or otherwise shot, and very often WITH THEIR OWN GUN.
     
  10. welshdude3

    welshdude3 Member

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    C'mon TP. With all due respect back up your statements with some reasonably contemporary statistics. "Very often with their own gun." Fairly loose generalization. Where's the hard data?

    The fact you came to the realization you were 'all to ready to use it" speaks more to YOUR frame of mind. Not anyone elses. There had to have been some sort of trauma to elicit the change. That's between you and your clinician of choice.

    The most disturbing aspect of your post is the seemingly unrepentant and somehow rationalized willingness to hunt 'legally' some defenseless animal while unwilling to protect one's self legally because you were 'all to willing to use it". My supposition is that in a hunting situation there's no compunction to be 'all to willing to use it' in that circumstance. Hypocritical tripe. Perhaps the rationalization of 'legal hunting' softens the impact. While not illegal you're still committing cold blooded murder against a lesser creature incapable of shooting back. Undur the guise of 'sport'? PUH-leeze.

    The reason the murder rate is the highest among civilized nations is because of CRIMINAL gun ownership. Not law-abiding citizens. You strip away the criminal element? We would have the violent crime rate of Switzerland. The neutral country requiring every house hold to have a fully functional firearm on the premises. At all times. I've been there. Very liberal minded, but also realists at the same time.
     
  11. Mengtian

    Mengtian New Member

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    If tha is your frame of mind then I am glad you are not carrying a gun. I have carried concealed in the military and a civilian for almost 30 years now. I have yet felt that I was "all too willing ot use it". My state of mind was to have enough SA to keep me out of trouble and have enough common sense to not use it when needed.

    I totally disagree with your post..but I do laud you for realizing you should not be carrying.

    And..on a side note: if you were carrying and did shoot someone by accident or by a poor decision choice..what laws would be enacted to prevent that? You sound like you meet all the qualification to carry and even with stircter laws you would as well.
     
  12. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    "A firearm is to a fire extinguisher as a bucket of gasoline is to fire extinguisher."

    Um...no.
     
  13. BikeBikeBikeBike

    BikeBikeBikeBike Well-Known Member

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    I just spend some time reading about Switzerland, very interesting system they have. I'm glad you brought that up Welshman because I figured they pretty much had no guns and no interest in them considering their stance in the last 200 years of European warfare.
    They have a "gun in every closet" type of mindset, where they encourage private citizens to all own firearms. But they also seem to be a little more restrictive in their laws then the USA. They also tweaked the laws a bit in 2001 as a result of a mass shooting and a high rate of suicide via guns.
    Here is a great quite from a time write up on the subject:
    "“Social conditions are fundamental in deterring crime,” says Peter Squires, professor of criminology and public policy at the University of Brighton in Great Britain, who has studied gun violence in different countries and concluded that a “culture of support” rather than focus on individualism, can deter mass killings.“If people have a responsible, disciplined and organized introduction into an activity like shooting, there will be less risk of gun violence,” he tells TIME."
    So giving kids guns and teaching them the rules above that Bob was talking about will actually REDUCE gun crime. So perhaps the gun violence in the USA is less a result of the proliferation of guns then it is a result of socio-economic factors.
    Another forum I participate in also has a thread going about this subject, one poster put this really interesting article up:
    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map
    It's about mass shootings, and essentially most guns involved in those shootings were obtained legally then used criminally.
    As with every major debate, the more I start digging into it the more I figure out things are not as simple as most people think they are.
     
  14. Mengtian

    Mengtian New Member

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    Typo

    My state of mind was to have enough SA to keep me out of trouble and have enough common sense to not use it when not needed and use it if needed.
     
  15. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    I like how the anti's always say that murder is so much more difficult to carry out with a knife.

    More difficult? Not really. More messy...yeah, I'll give them that.

    Here we have a family in Oklahoma murdered to death with a couple of knives and a hatchet. Murdered by two of their own sons.

    Some people are just so broken they do not deserve to live among other humans.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/25/okla-girl-13-named-brothers-as-assailants-who-fatally-stabbed-parents-3/

    Found dead were parents, David Bever, 52, and April Bever, 44, and three of their children, Daniel, 12, Christopher, 7; and Victoria, 5. Police also found in the home knives and a hatchet that were believed used in the murders.

    "Fox 23 said officers arrived at the home around 11:30 p.m. Wednesday in response to a 911 call from inside the house.
    The station said either Daniel or Christopher made the call.

    “(He) actually stated, ‘Please help,’ and (said) their brother was attacking the family. Another male which we believe is one of the two suspects said hello and then hung up,” Broken Arrow Police Department Corporal Leon Calhoun told the station.

    Police found Robert and his brother hiding in the woods behind the house."
     
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  16. thomas pendrake

    thomas pendrake New Member

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    Wow, talk about people with their heads in the ground! Let me make it clear that I have been a gun owner for ove 50 years. I do not own a weapon designed solely to kill large numbers of people in a hurry, but I did use such weapons when in the military. Hunting game animals is not the same as going into a school and killing dozens of little children, and I was actually on a revolver forum and had a person tell me that Sandy Hook was fine as long as he could own his assault rifle. This was after I had commented that one of the nice things about a revolver is that it does not have the stigma of being used for mass killings.
    Years ago I carried my pistol with me because of threats from some neighbors (I lived in a forest area at that time) who were running a theft ring. I remember becoming angry with a truck driver who tried to force me off the interstate because I was only driving 10 miles per hour OVER the speed limit. I spent several minutes tryng to get myself into position to shoot out his mirror. Although I had to continue to carry my pistol for several years, I was a bit uncomfortable with the idea.
    The statistics on gun deaths are well known, and the fact is that a large number of people are killed with their own guns. And normally reasonable people sometimes have one too many drinks. Until guns are made that can sense when you are drunk, this is a real problem. Even drunk hunters are a problem. Guns are designed to kil, but they are not made to know when and who. Are you always fit to have a gun in your hands?
     
  17. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    "Are you always fit to have a gun in your hands?"

    Yes.

    In the 50 years I have owned firearms I have, not once, tried to shoot out the rear view mirror of a moving vehicle.

    Yesterday I was on a 103-mile bike ride ( www.sweetcornride.com ) and while riding fast with the Case Western Reserve University Cycling Team an irate motorist in a white Ford Ranger pickup truck pulled alongside our paceline and started screaming at the lead riders. For about a mile he ranted and raved and swerved into the line of riders. His right side mirror was only about 2" from the lead rider a couple of times.

    Did I shoot out his mirror? No.
    Did I want to shoot out his mirror? No.

    What we did was to whip out a couple phones and video the moron and then send the video to the Sheriff's office. The zoom in on his license plate, the obscenities and the wreckless operation of a motor vehicle upon public roads was all there in glorious hi-def color.

    You do NOT shoot out mirrors. You do NOT fire warning shots.

    'IF' you feel you are in imminent fear of death or serious bodily harm/injury you shoot to stop the attack. That means shooting the person that is trying to kill or injure you. NOT his mirror.

    White Ranger dude revved his engine to redline as he screamed away from our group...doing what he said he could not possibly do...cross the double-yellow lines when it was clear and safe to pass us. I hope the Deputies followed up and wrote him a citation, but I rather doubt anyone bothered.
     
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  18. Mengtian

    Mengtian New Member

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    Aw...yes. And again..I am glad that you realize that you are not. Some folks do have there head screwed on right. And what law is going to prevent a situation of road rage? With a gun or without? Another law would not have prevented you from acting stupidly and shooting ut a mirror. In many situations where a gun is used and a person is wounded or killed no law would have prevented it.
     
  19. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    You know, with an accurate hand gun I have enough of a challenge just hitting stationary pie plate at 50-100 feet. Under pressure, with the adrenaline flowing and nerves going at full tilt, that task gets more difficult.

    Hitting a mirror as it bounces down the road at 35 to XX MPH from a vehicle moving equally as fast and bouncing down the road while trying to aim small AND drive at the same time???

    The odds of hitting that mirror are smaller than your ego or Hollywood would have you believe. The odds of sending stray rounds out into the land of school buses full of innocent nuns and babies is significantly higher. Trust me on this.
     
  20. welshdude3

    welshdude3 Member

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    Wow yourself,TP. Thank YOU for recognizing your danger to yourself and others and discontinuing to carry a firearm. Your posts are more scattered than birdshot at 200 ft.

    While it would be within possibility to go through and discredit your statements as none of them include statistics it would be a complete waste of time. Like BBBB you don't wanna and ain't gonna get it.

    I've had enough of this ridiculous shite. I'm going for a ride.

    Btw, Campy Bob I didn't realize you're a NE Ohioan. I grew up in Mentor on the Lake. Small world.
     
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