How many of you carry a gun as part of your cycling equipment?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Joe West, Oct 2, 2004.

  1. artemidorus

    artemidorus New Member

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    Will you Aussies stop taking the piss?? :) This is serious, dudes.

    Actually, I'd like to add to the majority of non-American voices that appear absolutely staggered, and somewhat appalled, by this whole thread-

    I'm staggered, and somewhat appalled!
     


  2. Courtancer

    Courtancer New Member

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    I am completely astounded too.

    I can't think of anything more dangerous than to carry a gun with amunition on a bike that rattles and goes over bumps. It wouldn't be a huge surprise to see it fall onto the road and go off. If someone in Australia carried a gun on a bike they would be arrested and sent to have their head checked.
     
  3. iameviljez

    iameviljez New Member

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    This is insane. I can't possibly imagine anybody ever needing to carry a gun, ever. If you look at the amount of lives that guns have deliberately saved compared to accidentally lost you will see what I mean - unfortunately I know it looks like I'm saying that "the world is flat" because I have no links on me (surprise!). It's just an insane idea to carry around a killing machine on you - no wonder America has the gunrelated-death rate in the developed world (ie. Not South Africa!) by such a long margin it's not even funny.
    BTW I am also Australian and you can see that this consideration (ie carry a gun?) would not even enter our minds. How many cyclists have been mugged and killed in Australia? Dont think I would even need my fingers to count them.
     
  4. babybunny

    babybunny New Member

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    Bah, why can't everyone just be nice to each other? It's so easy... I'm an American and I just don't get why people have to suck so bad. I mean, instead of robbing people go get a job. So what if you're a big bad thug? It just means you made some damn stupid choices in life, and are continuing to make damn stupid choices, and will continue to make damn stupid choices because you feel you're a big bad thug. Ugg, this country is screwed up sometimes. Wish there were more nice people like Australia or Canada.
     
  5. Weisse Luft

    Weisse Luft New Member

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    Yes, nowhere near as dangerous as tire inflation CO2 cartidges many cyclists carry. :rolleyes:

    There are a minimum of 3 mechanisms on modern pistols which prevent accidental discharges. In most, the primary is a disconnector which prevents contact of the firing pin to the primer unless pressure is applied on the trigger.

    There are manual safety mechanisms and also passive mechanisms. Its nearly impossible to have an unintentional discharge from any modern pistol.

    The ammunition is likewise safe. It cannot go off accidently because its primer is well protected from impact in either the revolver or the pistol. Loose rounds are an exception but only a fool would do that. Sure, vibration COULD degrade the ammunition but only to the point where functioning would be compromised. Common sense and monthly practice will keep ammo fresh.

    I keep mine in the upper part of my saddle bag and its quite isolated from vibration.

    Of course the uninformed hoplophobes here get 99% of their information from movies and television. I watch ER but I sure am no expert on medicine.
     
  6. tvanhuisen

    tvanhuisen New Member

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    Wow! What an odd but interesting topic. First of all, I am no anti-gun guy. I am a former Marine who served with an artillery battery in the first Gulf War. I am not a gun owner but I like shooting guns for sport. Once or twice a year a rent a gun at in indoor range and shoot targets for fun. However, I have never felt the need to carry one with me for protection against other people. I have never even had the thought until I saw this thread. I live in a crappy part of San Francisco and I ride through even worse parts and I have never felt like I may be jeopardizing my life doing so. I don’t think I am naïve either. I am aware of my surroundings and avoid doing things that could make me a target for a mugging or something else. I should also say that I am 6’3” and 260 pounds, not that that would mean much to a kid with a gun but still, I don’t get scarred easily.

    I am curious, have any of the folks who carry guns with them on a bike ever needed it? Have you ever had to defend your life while riding your bike? I have a good cop friend in San Diego who says that he would rather carry a gun off duty and not need it than need a gun and not have it. Do you guys carry for similar piece of mind? Again, I ride through rough neighborhoods and see all kind of shady looking people but I have never heard of a cyclist in San Francisco losing his life while going for a ride or getting into a truly life-threatening situation. That isn’t to say that it hasn’t happened, I just haven’t heard of it and have trouble imagining it.
     
  7. menglish6

    menglish6 New Member

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    I don't mean to denigrate your shooting skills at all, I dont' doubt that you would put the average police officer or fbi agent to shame.

    What those statistics say is still applicable to anyone in a real dangerous encounter though, yourself included. As bad of shot as the law enforcement officials are I'm sure that none of them would only place 1/6 or 1/5 of their shots in the body of a target, at a range or on the type of course you describe. What this means is that there are factors in a real situation, that are not present in simulations, that have a dramatic effect on ones ability to shoot well.

    That's all I'm trying to say. Real situations are different than practice. Without practicing in those real situations it's hard to predict ones performance in such a situation.
     
  8. Weisse Luft

    Weisse Luft New Member

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    The best police officers are on the same level as the best civillians. The action shooting sports have made police training into a popular sport and such shooters are on par with the BEST police officers. Matter of fact, many such sport shooters ARE police officers.


    I have been in situations where I would have been more "comfortable" with a concealed pistol.
     
  9. jitteringjr

    jitteringjr New Member

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    I am not saying that in certain situations having a gun would not help you.

    Lets dissect this situation and compare it to one on a bike. The jewelry storeowners were probably standing in a fortified position behind a counter. On a bike, you're out in the open with no cover. The jewelry storeowner most likely was able to hit the deck and get to his weapon under full cover in this situation. Meanwhile on the bike you don't have this luxury.

    I don't know where you personally carry your weapon Joe, but most people are saying that they carry them in their wedges. If so, that is by no means accessible if someone is rushing you with a knife and I don't feel that the average person could do anything to stop the attack.


    I am stereotyping Hollywood because it is the only situation where most everyone has ever even seen someone shoot back after having been shot themselves so I feel it is justified. Hollywood makes it look so easy to keep your cool when you have a bullet in you and accurately aim your weapon to return fire. Have you ever fired a weapon after you were just shot Joe? I haven't but I have been seriously injured and I know how adversely it effects your judgment and motor skills.

    This along with what Menglish6 was saying about the police and FBI statistics comes into play. Have you ever shot a weapon while your life was in danger Joe? I don't care who one is or how much experience they have, nobody is as accurate and calm with a weapon under duress as they are while are playing shoot the target games in a practice range. (current military in a war zone excluded due to increased experience under fire)


    Even the most paranoid person is never 100% aware of everything going on. Say you are at a stoplight on your bike. A car comes from behind you in gold ole Mesa and a guy reaches out of the passenger side window and lunges his 6-inch survival knife into your neck. Can you prevent that by drawing your weapon, aiming and firing faster than he can lunge? If so you need to take your ninja like assassin skills and work for the CIA and quit wasting time on electrical engineering and Scuba instruction.


    Joe, I am okay with you carrying a weapon to protect against yourself against any predator. I am not against that. It is your right to choose to carry and I would never take that away from you or any other law-abiding citizen. I just don't think it is as effective as one thinks it would be against human attackers especially for those people who keep it in hard to get to locations like their wedges.

    Personally I don't carry because I would feel inclined to put stupid drivers out of my misery. Around here, that would require a butt-load of ammunition and I would have to buy one of those sub 15 pound pro racer bikes to make up for the difference in weight and I can’t afford spending that much on a bike. jk
     
  10. ProfTournesol

    ProfTournesol New Member

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    Gee, I dunno. if you guys really feel like you need to carry a gun to defend yourself when you are riding, perhaps it is time to move, or even emigrate!
     
  11. tvanhuisen

    tvanhuisen New Member

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    I guess that you are agreeing with my point. If someone was riding somewhere where he would feel that carrying a gun is necessary to protect his life, maybe he is riding in the wrong place.

    I use to ride through the Tenderloin neighborhood of San Francisco twice daily (not a good part of the city). I rode quickly but I never considered my life in danger and never imagined that carrying a gun to protect myself was at all necessary. If I would have felt vulnerable or in danger, I would have taken a different route, not pack a gun.
     
  12. Hazmat

    Hazmat New Member

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    Wow. I'm stunned. It seems this site may in fact be over run (is that two words?) with hoplophobes. Just because someone carries a gun means neither that they want to use it or that they will. The simple fact of the matter is there is nothing wrong with personal protection, whether it is a knife, spray, or gun. Having it on you, concealed, will not send secret mysterious signals to someone elses brain close by that will make the do a ninja flip out and kill everyone in the room, but you know what? If they do you will be prepared. I am dying to get my chl here in Texas, I simply don't have the money right now as I have spent well over 10K in the last 8 months modifying one of my cars, I am in self imposed brokedom becuase of one of my many passions.

    Spearsliger - good facts, and for those that suggested or bandwagoned about the ban being lifted, ya'lls rational is not different than those that want to the see the .50s out of the picture. When was the last time someone robbed a bank or knocked over a liquor store using a Barrett M95, yep, never happened, nor will it.

    Boudreaux - you lump an RPG in with a Glock? what point exactly were you trying to make?

    Luft and West make very clear logical arguments and it seems. . . oh boy. . . am I gonna say it. . . eeeeaaaarrrggghhhhh. . . I have to. It seems the bleeding heart liberals just can't seem to cope. The only fearmongering going on is by them. I will say it again, simply having it on you doesn't make the world less safe, it's quite the opposite, and what if it is not you, what if you are witness to a mugging and can do something about it? Are you honestly going to run up to some thug with a knife of gun, ravaging some poor person, female, male, child, adult w/e and try to reason with them, try to defend against their weapon with your fists and flowery words?

    I know violence. It can and will happen anytime anywhere. And guess what folks, ppl do shoot at strangers in broad daylight for no apparent reason. When I was in HS going to Cranbrook in MI, I was at the ABA on 3 mile with a buddy in his dads SAAB, we got our beer (we were 17, and there were too many cops in Pontiac, meh), driving away we hear pop, pop, pop and I feel a sting in my calf. Someone had shot at our car with a .38 and one of the slugs went through the door and hit me mid calf. No, having a peice wouldn't have helped in that situation, the point is YOU NEVER KNOW when or where the truly bad shit is going to go down, so being prepared is your best defense.

    btw Joe, you remind me greatly of my oldest brother (just turned 36 least week and said he'd buy and FNH for christmas), very driven, intelligent and logical in his actions and thoughts. He lives in Houston and carries 24/7, even when we are sitting at a KFC having lunch, or working on my moms car. Its part of him, its just what he does; shirt, pants, cologne, wallet, handgun, watch....you get the idea. And people can say whatever they want to about Texas, hillbilly, John Wayne, and cowboys and so on, but I could care less, you'd have to be out of your mind to pull some crazy shit in a large crowd, you will have so many sights on you so quickly your head would spin.

    anyway, my newbie leg humping tirade is done. Thank you for your time please drive through. And before anyone says something, yes, I read all ten pages. WHEW!
     
  13. Weisse Luft

    Weisse Luft New Member

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    If I were to ride only on known roads, I wouldn't feel the need to carry. Matter of fact, I don't carry on such conditions. I also do not carry during supported group rides.

    But when I am by myself or riding with a small group, over roads I have never traveled and in areas where loose dogs are a possibility, you can rest assured that extra 10 ounces of weight in my bag are to prevent dogbites and angry humans from putting my life in jeopardy.

    That I have had the need to use it and not had it are enough justification. Unsymmetrical force? Sure. But I am on the right side of the law, permit to carry included.
     
  14. menglish6

    menglish6 New Member

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    So do you shoot the dog before or after it bites you?
     
  15. Joe West

    Joe West New Member

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    Hi iameviljez,

    A gun isn't a killing machine... humans are the killing machines... what they choose to kill with is simply a tool whether it be a Bic pen, boxcutters, knife, fire extinguisher, handgun, or atom bomb. It's men that kill and not the tool.

    The fact that the consideration to carry a gun wouldn't enter your mind simply means that you have been well trained by your government to be a good citizen and accept that guns are evil bad horrible killing machines which have no place in a civilized society. What you fail to understand is that your government has guns. Why do *they* need them if they are bad for you?

    You have been bred to not like guns... as were your parents, and as likely will be your children and their children and... well; you get the idea.

    I think its great that you live in such a loving utopian society. I however, will never trust anyone who tells me guns are not for society while they hold strongly to their own weapons as your government does.

    You don't know any better... and that's okay. You can't imagine ever needing a gun... that's okay also.

    Chances are likely that neither of us will ever been in a situation where we need a gun... the difference is; if I need one I will have one and if you need one... well... dial 911 and wait for your government to arrive to save you.

    Joe

     
  16. Fat Hack

    Fat Hack New Member

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    Sorry, but "you guys" have gotta do better than this.

    Why were guns invented in the first place?

    If it's all about the man and not the weapon, then why aren't wars still fought using spears and arrows?

    Why were machine guns used in most wars sine 1945 instead of Bic pens and boxcutters?

    Because guns are MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more effective as killing tools!!!

    Would you rather confront a lunatic who has an AK47 or a Bic pen?

    How much damage could those psychos in Columbine have done with Bic pens and boxcutters?

    BLOODY HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  17. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    Is there any chance that this thread will end? Even if it was, at some time, remotely viable as a 'cycling equipment' thread, it is certainly not so now. Now it has become a forum for people to stump for a political viewpoint, a place for character assassination and smarmy self-righteous insinuations.

    There is absolutely nothing of value left in this, if there ever was any value in it. So maybe those still persisting in continuing it will finally either put a sock in it or realize that the thread should go elesewhere.

    What a waste of space.
     
  18. iameviljez

    iameviljez New Member

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    Cheers Joe.

    Perhaps to further explain my point, does anyone carry a neuclear warhead whilst riding a bicycle? Well, why not?
    jez
     
  19. Joe West

    Joe West New Member

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    I can't tell you how much different Columbine would have been with boxcutters... but I can tell you that simple boxcutters were pretty effective at bringing down the world trade center and killing thousands of people.

    Now... what was your point again?

    Joe


     
  20. Joe West

    Joe West New Member

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    Cause its too big?

    :D

     
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