How many of you carry a gun as part of your cycling equipment?



stevebaby

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Jun 22, 2004
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missing said:
You still wont answer the question, so I guess you are a coward. Did a bad guy scare you, make you wet your pants?
You're so cute...I just wanna pinch your chubby little cheeks!
 

Tapeworm

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Here's a little story which probably isn't relevant but here goes...

I once met an American LEO who used to carry his firearm at all times. Once he was at a dinner function (off-duty) and met a local judge. They were talking and the LEO mentioned about carrying his firearm off-duty. His reasons were for protection and also in case a crime occurred in front of him he could do something about it. The judge then asked him if he also carried his handcuffs, to which the answer was "no". The judge simply shrugged and asked "so what is the point then?"

The LEO still carries his firearm at all times and now the handcuffs too.

Quite a valid point I feel.
 

stevebaby

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Jun 22, 2004
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6fhscjess said:
Gun control proponents included Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot etc.
Afghanistan and Iraq were,and are, strong 'gun cultures'. Sure helped them 'resist the tyrant'....not.
:D :D :D
 

cbjesseeNH

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Jun 10, 2005
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I see. When serious challenges to arguements arise, the strategy is to ignore them, vaguely impugn sources based on hearsay, and insult the challengers.

As observed in the case of each state in the US that has recently debated and passed Shall-Issue CCW, this is part of the anti-gun scheme, and usually follows the failed efforts of sobbing mothers to convince legislators and votors.

It's actually become heartening to see, as repetition of the anti-gun pattern of arguement and antics is a sure sign of their impending failure to be effective in changing minds and laws.

Only in countries where the government can act independently from the wishes of the people have gun bans been implemented - most with outcomes bordering on, or lapsing into, genocide.

Sorry. More tiny islands with tiny populations, or large islands with tiny populations, banning guns and struggling to show effect, are unlikely to prove a point to the rest of the world.
 

stevebaby

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cbjesseeNH said:
I see. When serious challenges to arguements arise, the strategy is to ignore them, vaguely impugn sources based on hearsay, and insult the challengers.

As observed in the case of each state in the US that has recently debated and passed Shall-Issue CCW, this is part of the anti-gun scheme, and usually follows the failed efforts of sobbing mothers to convince legislators and votors.

It's actually become heartening to see, as repetition of the anti-gun pattern of arguement and antics is a sure sign of their impending failure to be effective in changing minds and laws.

Only in countries where the government can act independently from the wishes of the people have gun bans been implemented - most with outcomes bordering on, or lapsing into, genocide.

Sorry. More tiny islands with tiny populations, or large islands with tiny populations, banning guns and struggling to show effect, are unlikely to prove a point to the rest of the world.
Guns aren't banned in Australia...and we've had 80 plus years to 'show effect'.
The effect is...a murder rate per capita 1/3 that of the US.
Dullard.
As for the government acting independently of the wishes of the people....the voting rate in Australia is above 95%...consistently...and the restrictions on weapons are universally popular.
http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/commun...licences,_permits__and__registrations/permits
NSW Police Online | Permits
 

cbjesseeNH

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Couldn't help throwing in the insult? That's alright, I know you can't help it - it's part of your argumentation style. But seriously - it's not effective. If you chase a way a few who don't want to tolerate your insults, maybe you count them as "wins"?

3x the murder rate in the US?

Like I said above: "Wow! With an estimated 1 gun per 3 persons in the US, and some 1/2 to 2/3 of US homes having a gun on the premesis, you would think the differential would be much higher."

... and in 80 years!

"Ban" has different degrees, I'll admit. Can you walk out the door today, buy a handgun and carry it concealed for the stated purpose of self-defense? We're not talking 2-round target shotguns here...
 

missing

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alienator said:
Talk about cowards.....here you are talking like a rough and tumble stud boy. Talk is cheap Frances, and there are more than enough cops that are shivering cowards at their core. Careful how you pigeonhole people, because it can just as easily be done to you.

You sound like an embarassment to the shield you wear.
The crumudgon of the forum raises his head and expects all to pray at the alter of his wisdom.

I've been called much worse by better.
 

stevebaby

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Jun 22, 2004
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cbjesseeNH said:
Couldn't help throwing in the insult? That's alright, I know you can't help it - it's part of your argumentation style. But seriously - it's not effective. If you chase a way a few who don't want to tolerate your insults, maybe you count them as "wins"?

3x the murder rate in the US?

Like I said above: "Wow! With an estimated 1 gun per 3 persons in the US, and some 1/2 to 2/3 of US homes having a gun on the premesis, you would think the differential would be much higher."

... and in 80 years!

"Ban" has different degrees, I'll admit. Can you walk out the door today, buy a handgun and carry it concealed for the stated purpose of self-defense? We're not talking 2-round target shotguns here...
No explanation as to
why the USA has such a high murder rate?

Can you walk out the door today,buy a machine gun and carry it for the purpose of self-defence?

You really don't understand what 'Law' is at all, do you? It's quite beyond your comprehension.
 

stevebaby

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missing said:
The crumudgon of the forum raises his head and expects all to pray at the alter of his wisdom.

I've been called much worse by better.
It's spelt 'curmudgeon' and 'altar'....you cute little thing you.
 

alienator

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Jun 10, 2004
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missing said:
The crumudgon of the forum raises his head and expects all to pray at the alter of his wisdom.

I've been called much worse by better.

Maybe the donuts kept you from understanding the point of the post: who are you to judge who is or isn't a coward or take the measure of another man? Please, do tell how your own stature and measure among men is so great that you can do such things.

I guess there's not a reading comprehension test for state troopers, is there?
 

cbjesseeNH

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stevebaby said:
No explanation as to
why the USA has such a high murder rate?
Do I take it you are NOT surprised that such a large number of guns in the US has lead to only a 3x higher murder rate than AUS?

To put it another way, consider a 3-pack/day smoker, who sunbathed daily without sunscreen, ate fatty foods and was grossly overwweight, drank heavily and engaged in random, unprotected sex. If that person, and those with the same lifestyle, had only a 3x greater chance of premature death than a non-smoking, non-drinking, diet-conscious, trim and monogamous person, would you be surprised? Yes - of course, because we have considerable scientific proof that such lifestyle practices increase the death rate much more than 3x.

So is one surprised that having 1 gun per 3 persons in the US population and guns in 1/2 to 2/3 of US homes parallels a 3x increase in murder? Yes - if you think more lots more guns cause lots more murder. But No - if you are aware of findings that the availability of guns for self-defence correlates with fewer violent crimes.

Sometimes the data don't fit beliefs, but believers discard the data and insist their belief must be true anyway. These comparisons have always bothered the anti-gun crowd, so they try to avoid them. Sooner or later, someone asks whether we could increase gun ownership several-fold or decrease gun ownership ten-fold and still see a 3x higher murder rate - and the anti-gun crowd stumbles again.

As to 'why' there are more murders in the US than AUS, per captita, perhaps you can enlighten us. I do know we have more large urban cities in the US than AUS, have considerable socioeconomic disparities, and such, but wouldn't venture to speculate without some study on the matter.

stevebaby said:
Can you walk out the door today,buy a machine gun and carry it for the purpose of self-defence?
There are no data suggesting that the deterrent effect of concealed carry is attributed to any specific make, model, caliber or type of gun, but since concealed carry of machine guns was not legal during the timeframe of the data analyzed, one might suppose that the effect was not attributable to the ability to carry a machine gun concealed. So whether I can or can't, which only depends on the prevailing laws, there is no anticipated increase in deterrent effect. Some argue that since our state militias use automatic weapons, all citizens should be free to employ them as desired, but that's a different discussion.

Aside from the 2nd Amendment perspective (which is not minor, but a bit off-topic here), my point was addressing the concept of "ban" as limiting ownership, access and employ of guns to the extent that they were not useful in self-defense.

I'm trying to anticipate your point, but perhaps you could just make it?

stevebaby said:
You really don't understand what 'Law' is at all, do you? It's quite beyond your comprehension.
Sometimes you start with an insult and some times you finish with an insult. Both ineffective.
 

stevebaby

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Australia is one of the most urbanized countries in the world, much more so than the USA, and I realize that the USA has much more poverty than Australia.
Otherwise, the main variable is the high rate of concealed weapon ownership.
You haven't answered the question as to why the murder rate in the USA is so much higher than every other OECD country.
Why is it so?
 

stevebaby

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cbjesseeNH said:
Do I take it you are NOT surprised that such a large number of guns in the US has lead to only a 3x higher murder rate than AUS?



There are no data suggesting that the deterrent effect of concealed carry is attributed to any specific make, model, caliber or type of gun, but since concealed carry of machine guns was not legal during the timeframe of the data analyzed, one might suppose that the effect was not attributable to the ability to carry a machine gun concealed. So whether I can or can't, which only depends on the prevailing laws, there is no anticipated increase in deterrent effect. Some argue that since our state militias use automatic weapons, all citizens should be free to employ them as desired, but that's a different discussion.

Aside from the 2nd Amendment perspective (which is not minor, but a bit off-topic here), my point was addressing the concept of "ban" as limiting ownership, access and employ of guns to the extent that they were not useful in self-defense.
Of course I'm not surprised that the murder rate is higher. There is a very obvious reason isn't there?

"Guns are banned' in the USA are they?
If you apply the same definition of 'banned ' that the NRA uses when discussing Australia's gun laws... then you would have to say the same about the USA, based on the fact that ownership of machine guns in the USA is strictly regulated. As are all firearms in Australia.
The fact is...I can buy a handgun here if I so choose. It would be subject to the same sort of regulation as motor vehicles, boats, poisons, drugs, explosives and many other objects that have the potential to be abused. The same sort of regulations that exist in the USA. Regulations which you accept without bleating on about 'Freedom'...a nebulous concept which does not and cannot exist in an absolute state and which very few people people in either the US or Australia or any other country have much of anyway.
 

cbjesseeNH

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stevebaby said:
Australia is one of the most urbanized countries in the world, much more so than the USA, and I realize that the USA has much more poverty than Australia.
Otherwise, the main variable is the high rate of concealed weapon ownership.
You haven't answered the question as to why the murder rate in the USA is so much higher than every other OECD country.
Why is it so?
Again, tiny islands or large islands with tiny populations may not well model social behavior in the most populous countries. So comparing the US and AUS may not be useful at all.

Some are not so quick to dismiss variables between countries that you suppose are inconsequential, and leap to the rate of concealed carry ownership as the main factor behind differences in murder rates.

Those who intend to make valid arguements that are seriosuly considered are forced to use multivariate statistics and such rather than their own intuition.

Put people from each OECD country in a room and tell me the biggest difference between them is that the American might be carrying concealed. Put career criminals from each OECD country in a room and you might not find much difference in that respect.

It might seem odd, but felons in the US can't be convicted of concealed carry w/o a license, or so said our Supreme Court. Since they can't possess a gun anyway, they can't be charged with not having a license. Which is a roundabout way of getting to the point: licensed concealed carry is what good guys do in the US - it's the bad guys that break the laws. Two drug runners shoot it out on the corner and Harvard statisticians call it murder of an acquaintence by those with guns in the home. Most of us just call it Urban Renewal.

If 3-fold is so much higher, then I just can't see why you people in AUS don't model yourselves after the Japanese, who have a 3-fold lower murder rate than AUS (same database). 80 years is a long time to get around to it...
 

matagi

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Mar 12, 2006
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cbjesseeNH said:
Again, tiny islands or large islands with tiny populations may not well model social behavior in the most populous countries. So comparing the US and AUS may not be useful at all.
You are quite correct .... which brings me to a question - Does anyone have any statistics on gun ownership and rates of murder/violent crime in India? This is a country with a huge population - of course, it is culturally quite different from the USA but if we are looking at the issue from a purely numbers perspective, it would be interesting to know what the Indian statistics are.

Perhaps a better question would be - what is the risk of being involved in a crime where a concealed weapon would be of benefit? For those of us who live in Australia, the risk both perceived and actual would seem to be quite low. For those who live in the USA, the perceived risk seems quite high, but what is the actual risk?
 

Bro Deal

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matagi said:
Perhaps a better question would be - what is the risk of being involved in a crime where a concealed weapon would be of benefit?
That is a key point right there. We live in an ocean of dangers. There are all sorts of things that could kill you, but what is the probability of any one of them. If you are so terrified of being killed in an unlikely circumstance that you feel the need to carry a gun, maybe you should protect yourself from things other than random violence.

For example, your chance of slipping in the shower and hitting your head. This is much more likely than getting shot at the local mall by someone who goes postal. Perhaps you should wear a helmet while showering. What about head injuries in an auto wreck? Even more likely. Sure you have a seatbelt and an air bag, but you would be much safer if you wore a crash helmet. Driving is so dangerous, maye that should just be out altogether. Sell you car and move to a city with good public transportation. Or get a job as a telecommuter, never go outside, and have your groceries delivered. Oh, but then there are asteroids and natural disasters. **** it all. Just buy a copy of Final Exit and end it right now.
 

Pharmr

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alienator said:
you and your ilk are the kind of folks I point out when I tell my daughter, "They're the reason that we have war, honey. They're the reason innocent people die. They're the sort the have no original thought of their own, only what is fed to them."
alienator said:
who are you to judge who is or isn't a coward or take the measure of another man? Please, do tell how your own stature and measure among men is so great that you can do such things.
now there's the pot calling the kettle :rolleyes:
 

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