How many of you carry a gun as part of your cycling equipment?

[bannerrefugee]

Just wondering how many of you carry a gun as part of your cycling equipment? Here in Arizona we can legally carry open and concealed (concealed with permit).

For long distance touring and bicycle camping... I think I'd feel safer carrying my .45 semi-auto pistol (concealed so it doesn't freak people out).

Anyone else carry while biking?

JW

I don't. When I lived in Atlanta I had a friend who caried a 32 in a fannypack under a waterbottle. He got killed by his roomate whom he also killed. He shot his roomy 6 times while the roomy was beating him over the head with a barbell. I was better friends with his GF. I helped her clean out his apt.

 

[reallyoldpunk]

I I helped her clean out his apt.

Ugh! I feel for you. I had to help clean out the apartment of a friend that was stabbed 7 times by her BF. It was a really horrible experience.

 

[cbjesseeNH]

Read what I actually wrote.
I was never threatened while on duty. Few Australian police officers are ever threatened by firearms and of the ones who have been, most of them have been confronted by people in domestic disputes. Statistically, being a police officer in Australia is safer than being a truck driver or a miner.
Strict control of weapons has made it so.
Try reading the post again...maybe you will figure it out eventually.

Eventually, if you keep qualifying your statement...

Maybe you meant to say:

"I was never in 4 1/2 years as a police officer threatened by a firearm by a criminal [while on duty].It can be reasonably assumed that the average citizen in a Western democracy will encounter far fewer violent offenders than a police officer [on duty] would. In each and every case that I was threatened by a loaded firearm [while off duty]...it was by a legal gun owner and despite the stringent laws controlling the use of handguns here...with only one exception, it was by a legal handgun.
And if I had been armed with a pistol myself at the time [while off duty] ? Probably one or the other of us would have been killed."

So you were threatened with a loaded firearm when a police officer, but not while on duty? You don't say whether you were in uniform and off duty or out of uniform and off duty. If fact you don't say that you were a police officer at all when threatened with a loaded firearm in your original statement.

And did you mean you carried a gun while on duty but not off duty, or never carried a gun on or off duty?

By your account, it would seem that there is a vast difference in police cultures between the US and AUS. The FBI keeps statictics of police assualted or killed, but doesn't distinguish between on and off duty. If an off-duty cop is shot in the US, the shooter is a cop-killer. No difference.

 

[cbjesseeNH]

I PM'ed you to continue this argument, maybe you should respect other posters and continue our disgust for each other in private.

I see.

You insult me and other repeatedly, but when anyone first objects - well, that crosses the line of decency, and it should be taken off-forum.

 

[cbjesseeNH]

You still haven't answered the question.
Where are the billion people?

Yuan Yuan Zhang, press spokesman, Chinese Embassy, Washington DC
Q: Is there a constitutional right to keep and bear arms for private citizens in your country?
A: Certainly not.
Q: Is it illegal in your country for private citizens to keep and bear arms?
A: It is not -- one has to get a permit to carry weapons. Of course some people carry weapons because of their official duties such as policemen or soldiers.

1.3 billion and growing

Oh yeah, you keep narrowing your box for acceptable proof from OECD countries, to Western countries, to Western democracies, ....

 

[reallyoldpunk]

I see.

You insult me and other repeatedly, but when anyone first objects - well, that crosses the line of decency, and it should be taken off-forum.

Oh no, you can "object" all you want on the forum. It will actually add to my argument that you are a ....NUT JOB! I just thought it might be more polite for us to eventually keep it in private, I see you are afraid to go there Don't worry, you can bring your gun...NUT JOB!. Funny that your opponents haven't been as cowardly as you and we are having some constructive debates off the forum (don't forget, I am a gun owner). I am truly embarassed that you are on "my side". Go away before you do more damage.

 

[stevebaby]

Yuan Yuan Zhang, press spokesman, Chinese Embassy, Washington DC
Q: Is there a constitutional right to keep and bear arms for private citizens in your country?
A: Certainly not.
Q: Is it illegal in your country for private citizens to keep and bear arms?
A: It is not -- one has to get a permit to carry weapons. Of course some people carry weapons because of their official duties such as policemen or soldiers.

1.3 billion and growing

Oh yeah, you keep narrowing your box for acceptable proof from OECD countries, to Western countries, to Western democracies, ....

Bwaaahahahahahah!!!!
Read the full text in the link below...from a gun owner's site.
Which is highly critical of the Chinese Government for regulating gun ownership.
http://www.gunowners.org/opagn0301.htm
Op-Ed: Anti-Gun Nut of the Month Mar 2001

In which foot did you just shoot yourself ?

 

[stevebaby]

Maybe you meant to say:

...exactly what I wrote. Your inability to comprehend is your problem.

 

[Bro Deal]

I don't. When I lived in Atlanta I had a friend who caried a 32 in a fannypack under a waterbottle. He got killed by his roomate whom he also killed. He shot his roomy 6 times while the roomy was beating him over the head with a barbell. I was better friends with his GF. I helped her clean out his apt.

I'm sure there is a moral in all this, but I'll be damned if I can figure it out. Barbells should be outlawed? Roid rage and guns don't mix?

 

[reallyoldpunk]

Barbells should be outlawed?

When barbells are outlawed only outlaws will have barbells!

 

[Bro Deal]

When barbells are outlawed only outlaws will have barbells!

How about we outlaw dumbbells because they are small and easily concealable, but we still allow barbells for sporting use?

 

[Akadat]

Much of this debate is based on the assumption that a gun is the magic pill.

Can anyone tell me where the following quote comes from? It goes something like this - "If you have the correct mindset and training, a fence post will serve as your sword; with incorrect mindset and training, your sword is nothing but a fence post". I thought it came from Mushashi (circa 1600), but I cannot find any reference to 'fence post' in his writings.

It is as relevant today as it was 400 years ago. People believe that a gun is all it takes, whether in their own hand or in the hands of an assialant. A gun is useless if the person weilding it does not have the mindset or training to use it. A knife, sword, dumbell, or wooden stick is no different. The best weapon "is found between your ears", whether sitting down, walking, driving, or riding a bike.

 

[Duffer]

In the United States, it is rather irrelevant to argue "shoulds" and "musts".

In the U.S. the bottom line is...

we have the right to own firearms.

Rights take no justification, as they are rights. If I want to worship in a Jewish synagogue or Muslim mosque, I don't have to justify it; I can simply do so. If I want to vote I don't have have to justify it; it is a right. If I choose to meet with a large group of like-minded my friends, I need no permission from the state or anyone; it is a right. I need no reason to exercise a right.

Therefore, this argumentation back and forth is interesting only if considered from an international perspective.

For myself, I will own a gun as it takes no further explanation, justification, or permission, (provided I am of sound mind and have no felony criminal record), beyond the exercise of my free choice.

 

[cbjesseeNH]

The actual figures show a fall in homicide,violent crimes and sexual assault and the previous rise was due to a change in classification,with such offences as 'Resist Police' and domestic violence being re-classified and a standardized method of collecting data across 9 police forces.
Read the actual figures for yourself...instead of the utter ******** being spread by the NRA.
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2005/01_recordedCrime.html
Recorded crime (in: Australian crime : facts and figures 2005) [Publication]

I'm seeing a steady rise in Assaults from the data you reference, with the statement on p11 "The trend in the rate of recorded assault has shown a steady increase from 1996 to 2003". Despite a drop in homicides, the ratio of Assaults/Homicides has risen some 43% over that time period (ratios correcting for population changes, of course). That is, for fewer homicides observed, proportionally more assaults are observed.

There may be less tolerance in the US for such a cost in reducing homicides. How would you pitch it? "When we take away the gun you keep for self-defense, you're going to have to expect to get beat up a few times, but isn't that a small price to pay to keep you from shooting the people beating you up? After all, we're being judged internationally by homicide rates and not whether you get beat up or not."

Seems a tough sell here.

 

[matagi]

I'm seeing a steady rise in Assaults from the data you reference, with the statement on p11 "The trend in the rate of recorded assault has shown a steady increase from 1996 to 2003". Despite a drop in homicides, the ratio of Assaults/Homicides has risen some 43% over that time period (ratios correcting for population changes, of course). That is, for fewer homicides observed, proportionally more assaults are observed.

Child abuse and domestic violence are both recorded under the assault classification. There has been a change in the law requiring reporting of these events by third parties, this may account for some (but not all) of the rise.

You cannot tie the rise in assaults to gun control if you are arguing about handguns and concealed carry permits. Australia has had very strict controls on handguns for over 30 years now (in fact the registration of "pistols" has been a requirement for about 80 years), so you need to look at other reasons for the rise.

 

[Bikelyst]

This has to go down as one of the best threads on cycling forums in history. B.c. of all of the arguments, controversey, and drama it has started.

 

[Pharmr]

When barbells are outlawed only outlaws will have barbells!

how many of you carry barbells as part of your cycling equipment??

 

[reallyoldpunk]

how many of you carry barbells as part of your cycling equipment??

Hey dude, lay off me. I have the right to carry barbells anywhere I go. You never know when you might want do a "one armed curl"!! the right to personal fitness is sacred and I object that you are making light of my physical fitness rights.

 

[cbjesseeNH]

Child abuse and domestic violence are both recorded under the assault classification. There has been a change in the law requiring reporting of these events by third parties, this may account for some (but not all) of the rise.

A reasonable answer, at face value. Yet, if the NRA 'utters BS', as said by SB, and analysis from independent scholars such as Lott are to be cast aside, again as per SB, and as well official crime charts and data can't be taken at face value, how can policy decisions be made? Might any reductions in crimes also be misconstrued due to changes in reporting, or are just apparent increases in crime in error?

You cannot tie the rise in assaults to gun control if you are arguing about handguns and concealed carry permits. Australia has had very strict controls on handguns for over 30 years now (in fact the registration of "pistols" has been a requirement for about 80 years), so you need to look at other reasons for the rise.

Again, it seems that any reduction in crime is attributed to recent legislation and/or police programs, but that increases cannot be attributed to changes in policies and practices. Actions taken after Port Arthur would, then, have had had no impact and were not intended to have any impact?

We are flooded with data and analysis and have to take it on faith that things are getting better, despite what the FBI, the Australian Institute of Criminology, academic publications and the popular press indicate. Where does this special knowledge come from?

 

[matagi]

A reasonable answer, at face value. Yet, if the NRA 'utters BS', as said by SB, and analysis from independent scholars such as Lott are to be cast aside, again as per SB, and as well official crime charts and data can't be taken at face value, how can policy decisions be made? Might any reductions in crimes also be misconstrued due to changes in reporting, or are just apparent increases in crime in error?

If you are trying to prove a point, then you will quote statistics which support your contention - this is equally true for government agencies as it is for the NRA. We are all governed by self-interest to varying degrees.

Again, it seems that any reduction in crime is attributed to recent legislation and/or police programs, but that increases cannot be attributed to changes in policies and practices. Actions taken after Port Arthur would, then, have had had no impact and were not intended to have any impact?

The changes implemented after Port Arthur were designed to minimise the risk of another mass killing involving a firearm. Since the law was changed, there have been no other such events and this is taken as a sign that the change in law has been successful. Of course, one could also argue that the reason there have been no more events like Port Arthur is due to the fact that nobody has felt like grabbing a gun and heading down to the mall to take out a few fellow citizens.

We are flooded with data and analysis and have to take it on faith that things are getting better, despite what the FBI, the Australian Institute of Criminology, academic publications and the popular press indicate. Where does this special knowledge come from?

I have no idea how much detail the FBI and AIC get when the various law enforcement agencies provide their raw data. If you analyse the data with respect to location, demographic etc. etc. then things may well be getting better except for certain subgroups who are disproportionately represented in the statistics - I am speculating here, because I really don't know and I don't think that sort of information is widely publicised.