Originally posted by Roy Gardiner
I think Armstrong is one of the greatest cyclists in history and was tipping him to my friends ever since the Worlds RR win. After cancer --- words fail me....
But.
I think Ullrich is an equal talent and is younger; he will be a little better next year, Lance a little older, a little less dominant.
And he's demonstrated a further characteristic a tour winner must have; his bad luck has never been terminal. The plastic bag crash - no stack hat! - could easily have finished his tour if he'd belted his head; he could easily have ridden into Beloki or punctured in the field or whatever - skill and luck got him through. And he's had good luck; Hamilton, Liepheimer, Beloki, all out. I think with a fit Hamilton this year the result might well have been different - what a man.
So I stand by the prediction; he won't win. But I think
it has the potential to be yet another truly great tour as this year's was, with a great champion winning. Roll on the day.
Originally posted by werner24 Lance ... said in his book, there is the curse of the 6th win. Few have succeeded. One I think.
Lance winning the 2004 Tour de France!!
Originally posted by Roy Gardiner
Merckx 7 Milan-San Remo, Kelly 7 (consecutive!) Paris-Nice, but 5 is max for TdF.
And the very best to him.
Originally posted by werner24
one was back in the 60's right?
Originally posted by Roy Gardiner
Anquetil '57 (1st tour) then '61/2/3/4 the last by 55sec then the closest ever finish.
retd ill 58, beaten 59, did not ride 60 (won Giro), led from 1st day all the way through 61, did not ride 65, retd ill 66.
Then Merckx, Hinault, Indurain, Armstrong
Originally posted by Madone I dont think we have yet seen a rider amongst the peleton who is capable of reaching 5 for a long time yet, JU and TH are to old to achive it .. but a straighT 5 has only been done by two Indurain and Armstrong,
Originally posted by Roy Gardiner
JU is 28 this year, approaching his best two best years (historically TdF men are best in late twenties, generally). LA and TH are indeed older and will be starting to lose strength. JU has the talent; he lost in '98 in one disastous hour and has self-defeated since then. He's my tip for next year - especially back with a really top team and 12 full months preparation.
Anquetil did not start in '65 when still at the peak of his strength; bearing in mind he had then won 5, 4 straight, with the Giro/Tour double in '64. The previous record was 3 (Bobet, 53/4/5 IIRC). Anquetil was so dominant that he argued that a 6th win would not increase his earning power! He made his mark that year with the incredible Dauphine/Bordeaux Paris double.
Originally posted by Memphmann
Yet more evidence to prove my point. LA may be one of the greatest TdF riders, but not overall. In the last five years, has he won any other MAJOR race? Like some of the greats from years past. He has the ability to win the TdF, but not another....
Memph
Originally posted by davidbod
Gone are the days when Eddie was a mad man on every race he rode in all season long. You can compare the two, but they are apples and oranges.
No winner has ever continued as a helper. I don't mean within one race after his chance has gone (e.g. Poulidor/Pingeon) but for an entire tour. More usual is treachery (e.g. Hinault/Lemond). He wouldn't earn much money, but the respect would be huge.Lance ... will win his 6th and then ... help another USPS rider win.
If LA decided to ride the Tour not to win but to help others - young USA riders coming up, for instance - and USPS continues, LA might still be riding the tour when he's 40.F A N T A S Y I S L A N D
Originally posted by Roy Gardiner
We have 2 threads converging, who's the greatest ever and TdF wins for Lance, but I expect everyone follows both
Very good point. However, 5 time winners Indurain, Hinault, Merckx, Anquetil all did the Giro/tour double, as have Roche and Coppi (is that the full set?), covering the entire post-WWII period. Lance hasn't tried, which IMO disqualifies him for consideration as 'greatest ever'.
No winner has ever continued as a helper. I don't mean within one race after his chance has gone (e.g. Poulidor/Pingeon) but for an entire tour. More usual is treachery (e.g. Hinault/Lemond). He wouldn't earn much money, but the respect would be huge.
But I don't think so; both USPS and LA will quit cycling after Lance finishes off the podium next year. The USPS budget is already coming in for intense criticism, without Lance they won't be able to sustain the team. But I wouldn't mind being wrong on all counts.
I think Memph is just saying LA is perhaps not the greatest ever, maybe one or two guys are better, perhaps Merckx and erm, er...Originally posted by Madone
... hope LA never has to ride against you...give the guy a break,
Originally posted by Memphmann
He has not won a TdF ITT in years and shows his weakness. I tuly do not see him winning next year. Unless USPS hires JU to pull his **** to victory......
Memph
Originally posted by Madone
Maybe he needs you as a coach Memph, you talk the talk, and sure seem to know all about his weakness, hope LA never has to ride against you, you'd rip his legs of man, what is it you think maybe LA was a Bear in a former life who bit the head of a wolf, give the guy a break, think about what he's done not what you think he should have done.
I reckon Ullrich, too, because of the reasons you give, meaning a 12 month clear run at it, which he's not had for a while.Originally posted by chrisl
I'm pretty sure it'll be Ullrich.
Lance ... has Sandra...I can't imagine a relationship like that won't interfere with the incredible discipline required to be the best in the TDF.
Originally posted by Memphmann
I could only wish to be as good as LA. Then again, I would not have his same goals. I would ride for the points championship more then the TDF.
He has done well, just not as well as the TRUE greats of the sport...
Memph
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