how much difference does a quality bike make for ave joe



Froze

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2004
4,711
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NE Indiana
I kind of think, though this is opinion just like Cyclintom, but I think you don't need Ultegra or Dura Ace on a AL bike, I think 105, or a mix of mostly 105 and Ultegra rear derailleur, on an AL bike really is all you need even if you're racing! In fact it may be all but impossible to find an AL bike with Ultegra components, I think Motobecane has one but main line bikes will be more difficult find.

I haven't rode a new AL bike in about 5 years, people say that these newer AL bikes ride very comfortably, I can't vouch for that, but if it's true than AL bike may very well be the best deal going.

I also think number of gears has gone nuts unless you're really particular about making sure your RPM's stay right at a certain level. But heck it wasn't that long ago that 7 speeds was more than adequate. But someone decided more was better, but better for who, racers? yes, for everyone else? not so critical. Plus as Cyclintom pointed out the newer more gears narrower chain thing we all now have to have wear out faster which means of course more money for bike manufactures and parts manufactures and all because it's better...for who? go back and review.

Since Campy doesn't make replacement parts any longer i guess they're now no better than the other groups.

Some bike shops will allow you to swap parts BEFORE you take the bike home. When I got my Lynskey I was able to swap out the 105 rear derailleur for Ultegra and all I paid was the difference which was just $32, that swap along with standard Shimano cables for DA cables made the whole component package have the feel of an all Ultegra or even DA for that matter for less money. There was three other swaps I did as well.

If you want the ability to work on your bike at home than go with a BSA threaded bottom bracket, press fit can really only be worked on by LBS's. So that's something one might want to consider when buying a new bike in order to save long term labor cost. Don't get me wrong, a home mechanic can do press fit brackets but at the expense of specialty tools and maybe a chance of ruining the frame. This is how the press fits are done:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOJAKBQOU9U
Here is another take on it:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c-Xu55ReNE
 

cyclintom

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2011
1,274
194
48
I kind of think, though this is opinion just like Cyclintom, but I think you don't need Ultegra or Dura Ace on a AL bike, I think 105, or a mix of mostly 105 and Ultegra rear derailleur, on an AL bike really is all you need even if you're racing! In fact it may be all but impossible to find an AL bike with Ultegra components, I think Motobecane has one but main line bikes will be more difficult find.

I haven't rode a new AL bike in about 5 years, people say that these newer AL bikes ride very comfortably, I can't vouch for that, but if it's true than AL bike may very well be the best deal going.

I also think number of gears has gone nuts unless you're really particular about making sure your RPM's stay right at a certain level. But heck it wasn't that long ago that 7 speeds was more than adequate. But someone decided more was better, but better for who, racers? yes, for everyone else? not so critical. Plus as Cyclintom pointed out the newer more gears narrower chain thing we all now have to have wear out faster which means of course more money for bike manufactures and parts manufactures and all because it's better...for who? go back and review.

Since Campy doesn't make replacement parts any longer i guess they're now no better than the other groups.

Some bike shops will allow you to swap parts BEFORE you take the bike home. When I got my Lynskey I was able to swap out the 105 rear derailleur for Ultegra and all I paid was the difference which was just $32, that swap along with standard Shimano cables for DA cables made the whole component package have the feel of an all Ultegra or even DA for that matter for less money. There was three other swaps I did as well.

If you want the ability to work on your bike at home than go with a BSA threaded bottom bracket, press fit can really only be worked on by LBS's. So that's something one might want to consider when buying a new bike in order to save long term labor cost. Don't get me wrong, a home mechanic can do press fit brackets but at the expense of specialty tools and maybe a chance of ruining the frame. This is how the press fits are done:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOJAKBQOU9U
Here is another take on it:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c-Xu55ReNE

I pretty much agree with you but I think that the DuraAce cableset made the shifting better without the Ultrgra rear derailleur. I haven't found anything that is an improvement between the 105, Ultegra or DuraAce except the finish and the shifter being smoother.

Though that is with limited experience since I'm a Campy person. My brother says that his DuraAce shifts so much better than the Ultegra on his backup bike that he thinks there's something wrong with them. I couldn't tell any difference between my 105's on my Cross bike and the Ultegra on my Time that couldn't be explained by the older Ultegra shifter having the shift cable come out the sides and the 105's being internally routed with a sharp turn in the cable.

One thing that we HAVE to impress on people - if you are going to buy a new bike make absolutely certain that either it has a BB30 bottom bracket (pressed in bearings) or ENGLISH THREADED BB386 cups. The newer cranks will not fit the extra 2 mm width of an Italian bottom bracket unless you're buying Campy.

This means that it is getting more and more difficult to get parts for older Italian threaded bikes. Though I'm sure that the Chinese will no doubt soon fill the breech.

Also - there IS a difference between Italian and English headset threads but it is so slight that one will work in the other though maybe the threading will feel tight.

Most of my new cranks now are MegaEVO from FSA. These have a 30 mm shaft with is the largest possible in most of the older BB shells.

Presently it is possible to get the SL-K BB30 and BB386 English threaded carbon fiber cranks. They also have an aluminum version called Omega Adventure. These are four arm cranks while the CF SL-K are normal 5 arm/bolt. I'm sure that the SL-K must be lighter but you can't feel a difference unless you're really sensitive. They also have the aluminum 5 arm/bolt Gossamer which you CAN get in a BB386 Italian threaded version in either compact or standard - though the standard retains the same 110 mm bolt spacing of the compact. This means that you must purchase any replacement rings from them. If you replace your chains on schedule the rings are very long wearing.
 

Froze

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2004
4,711
750
83
NE Indiana
I pretty much agree with you but I think that the DuraAce cableset made the shifting better without the Ultrgra rear derailleur. I haven't found anything that is an improvement between the 105, Ultegra or DuraAce except the finish and the shifter being smoother.

Though that is with limited experience since I'm a Campy person. My brother says that his DuraAce shifts so much better than the Ultegra on his backup bike that he thinks there's something wrong with them. I couldn't tell any difference between my 105's on my Cross bike and the Ultegra on my Time that couldn't be explained by the older Ultegra shifter having the shift cable come out the sides and the 105's being internally routed with a sharp turn in the cable.

One thing that we HAVE to impress on people - if you are going to buy a new bike make absolutely certain that either it has a BB30 bottom bracket (pressed in bearings) or ENGLISH THREADED BB386 cups. The newer cranks will not fit the extra 2 mm width of an Italian bottom bracket unless you're buying Campy.

This means that it is getting more and more difficult to get parts for older Italian threaded bikes. Though I'm sure that the Chinese will no doubt soon fill the breech.

Also - there IS a difference between Italian and English headset threads but it is so slight that one will work in the other though maybe the threading will feel tight.

Most of my new cranks now are MegaEVO from FSA. These have a 30 mm shaft with is the largest possible in most of the older BB shells.

Presently it is possible to get the SL-K BB30 and BB386 English threaded carbon fiber cranks. They also have an aluminum version called Omega Adventure. These are four arm cranks while the CF SL-K are normal 5 arm/bolt. I'm sure that the SL-K must be lighter but you can't feel a difference unless you're really sensitive. They also have the aluminum 5 arm/bolt Gossamer which you CAN get in a BB386 Italian threaded version in either compact or standard - though the standard retains the same 110 mm bolt spacing of the compact. This means that you must purchase any replacement rings from them. If you replace your chains on schedule the rings are very long wearing.

I don't know! I read from some internet site that by changing the 105 rear to an Ultegra and switching to DA cables makes the the rest of a 105 system feel like Ultegra and some argued as good as DA. I test rode a bunch of bikes from 105 on up to get a feel for 3, and really there isn't anything dramatically different between any of them other than DA felt a bit smoother. When I bought the Lynskey they shipped it to Adrenaline Bikes because I decided to make those changes and a few others, and since all I had to do was pay the difference the changes I made were inexpensive. But to say is the cables or the rear derailleur or the both, I can't say, all I know is that a friend of mine has a Motobecane TI bike with DA and he thought it felt like all DA stuff, and when I rode his bike I couldn't tell a difference either.

The other changes I made didn't do anything for how it shifted but I did swap out the Lynskey CF fork for a Enve 2.0 and the lowend FSA headset to a Cane Creek 110. The fork thing was because Lynskey wouldn't say where they sourced it so I had troubles trusting a no name brand, but the fork I'm pretty sure improved the handling since it feels more solid and surefooted than either the no name generic Motobecane TI bike or the Serotta ti bike that has a Serotta CF fork but not sure who made that either (the owner claims that Serotta made those in house?)

I'm not going to worry about the 105 crank unless I have issues and have to replace it, I will have to look into that FSA crank when the time comes, but I think the 105 will last a long time. I'm just not sure if I want to spend $700 for a crankset, I don't race so I can't see how that one would give me any added benefit.

Is the FSA MegaEvo bottom bracket really good? I have questions about the Titanium anodized aluminum cups if they would hold up for a long time?ayante

I heard that the Praxis Zayante M30 is highly rated, any knowledge on those?
 

cyclintom

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2011
1,274
194
48
I don't know! I read from some internet site that by changing the 105 rear to an Ultegra and switching to DA cables makes the the rest of a 105 system feel like Ultegra and some argued as good as DA. I test rode a bunch of bikes from 105 on up to get a feel for 3, and really there isn't anything dramatically different between any of them other than DA felt a bit smoother. When I bought the Lynskey they shipped it to Adrenaline Bikes because I decided to make those changes and a few others, and since all I had to do was pay the difference the changes I made were inexpensive. But to say is the cables or the rear derailleur or the both, I can't say, all I know is that a friend of mine has a Motobecane TI bike with DA and he thought it felt like all DA stuff, and when I rode his bike I couldn't tell a difference either.

The other changes I made didn't do anything for how it shifted but I did swap out the Lynskey CF fork for a Enve 2.0 and the lowend FSA headset to a Cane Creek 110. The fork thing was because Lynskey wouldn't say where they sourced it so I had troubles trusting a no name brand, but the fork I'm pretty sure improved the handling since it feels more solid and surefooted than either the no name generic Motobecane TI bike or the Serotta ti bike that has a Serotta CF fork but not sure who made that either (the owner claims that Serotta made those in house?)

I'm not going to worry about the 105 crank unless I have issues and have to replace it, I will have to look into that FSA crank when the time comes, but I think the 105 will last a long time. I'm just not sure if I want to spend $700 for a crankset, I don't race so I can't see how that one would give me any added benefit.

Is the FSA MegaEvo bottom bracket really good? I have questions about the Titanium anodized aluminum cups if they would hold up for a long time?ayante

I heard that the Praxis Zayante M30 is highly rated, any knowledge on those?

As far as I can tell all bottom brackets feel the same from my old Campy square taper to the FSA BB386. But I can tell that the 30 mm shaft is a bit stiffer for less weight. You have to be careful if you put these in a "normal" size BB shell since the 30 mm fills the entire space in there and so you have to make sure that the screw that holds on the under BB wire guide doesn't stick through on the inside at all. Also I tried a Reynolds crank and BB. Since it was installed I put the Ultegra crank in without the Ultegra BB cups. The BB has a shell inside that didn't fit properly and it started rubbing on the inside of the BB on the Crank and it sounded like the entire bike was coming apart. Installed the Ultegra cups and all was well.
 

Froze

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2004
4,711
750
83
NE Indiana
Tks Cyclintom. Currently nothing is wrong with the crank or the BB, just pondering that's all.

Again I'm just pondering, but does anyone know anything about the Praxis Zayante M30 crankset?
 

cyclintom

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2011
1,274
194
48
Tks Cyclintom. Currently nothing is wrong with the crank or the BB, just pondering that's all.

Again I'm just pondering, but does anyone know anything about the Praxis Zayante M30 crankset?
These cranks are design work of David Earle? I had to know him since I knew Bontrager and he worked at Bontrager's shop and later for Santa Cruz Mountain Bikes but after the concussion I'm lucky to remember my best friends. But anyone that worked for Keith or Santa Cruz has to know what he's doing. I'm waiting for better designed shifters. Carbon cranks seldom are worth the money since they are dangerous if they break so they overbuild the hell out of them and the aluminum cranks are generally pretty close in weight.
 

Froze

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2004
4,711
750
83
NE Indiana
These cranks are design work of David Earle? I had to know him since I knew Bontrager and he worked at Bontrager's shop and later for Santa Cruz Mountain Bikes but after the concussion I'm lucky to remember my best friends. But anyone that worked for Keith or Santa Cruz has to know what he's doing. I'm waiting for better designed shifters. Carbon cranks seldom are worth the money since they are dangerous if they break so they overbuild the hell out of them and the aluminum cranks are generally pretty close in weight.

Zayante M30 is an alloy crank, and like you said from everything I've read AL cranks are the way to go.