how much difference does a quality bike make for ave joe
- Thread starter looseleftie
- Start date
If anything I think aluminum has proven to be less durable than carbon under normal use. Fatigue cracks in older aluminum frames seem to be the norm, particularly in/around welds. When is the last time anyone has heard of a carbon frame failing due to normal age fatigue?
I had an acquaintance need to have a crack in a CF frame repaired last year and another acquaitance this spring. The first one was on a Douglas branded bike. It cracked by the bottom bracket, he had the frame repaired by a CF frame builder. The builder claimed that CF cracking not uncommon.
The other frame was a felt TT bike. Felt replaced the frame.
Quote by AyeYo:
"When is the last time anyone has heard of a carbon frame failing due to normal age fatigue?"
That would be last summer...when I sent my CF Wilier Izoard XP with a crack in the right side chain stay back to re-seller for replacement.
"Were those truly age related stress failures or were they from improper handling, crashes, rough rides, manufacturing defect, etc.?"
Racing and training on Ohio roads. What the bike was designed to do. I'm 165 pounds and generate so little Watts I use a $3.99 Harbor Freight VOM is as an SRM.
Overall I agree that most aluminum frames are prone to fatigue/stress cracking. The Scandium alloys are probably best (all thing being equal) for a shot at a long service life.
"When is the last time anyone has heard of a carbon frame failing due to normal age fatigue?"
That would be last summer...when I sent my CF Wilier Izoard XP with a crack in the right side chain stay back to re-seller for replacement.
"Were those truly age related stress failures or were they from improper handling, crashes, rough rides, manufacturing defect, etc.?"
Racing and training on Ohio roads. What the bike was designed to do. I'm 165 pounds and generate so little Watts I use a $3.99 Harbor Freight VOM is as an SRM.
Overall I agree that most aluminum frames are prone to fatigue/stress cracking. The Scandium alloys are probably best (all thing being equal) for a shot at a long service life.
Quote by Maydog:
"The first one was on a Douglas branded bike."
I rode my Douglas for five seasons and put 30,000-35,000 miles on it. Probably more miles than any other bike I've owned in 43 years of riding. Those were some fairly hard miles of training and racing. The Douglas (Colorado Cyclist's house brand at the time) held up well and performed well beyond my expectations for stiffness and handling. I pulled it back into service and rode it while waiting for my replacement Wilier frame to arrive.
I think this goes to show that any frame might hold up well under one user and the same model or manufacturer brand might fail under another rider's use.
BTW, despite my Wilier Izoard XP's failure I still own two identical Wilier Izoard's. They both have the Red/White fast AND Photon repelling paint scheme!
"The first one was on a Douglas branded bike."
I rode my Douglas for five seasons and put 30,000-35,000 miles on it. Probably more miles than any other bike I've owned in 43 years of riding. Those were some fairly hard miles of training and racing. The Douglas (Colorado Cyclist's house brand at the time) held up well and performed well beyond my expectations for stiffness and handling. I pulled it back into service and rode it while waiting for my replacement Wilier frame to arrive.
I think this goes to show that any frame might hold up well under one user and the same model or manufacturer brand might fail under another rider's use.
BTW, despite my Wilier Izoard XP's failure I still own two identical Wilier Izoard's. They both have the Red/White fast AND Photon repelling paint scheme!
Quality always makes a difference regardless of the product you invest in, whether it's a mountain bike or widgets. However, for those that are just starting out or are not that enthusiastic about riding, it makes no sense for them to be spending much on a bike. One should be prepared to spend on a quality bike with top notch components only after they are certain that cycling is something they intend to do regularly. If you're going to be riding a bike at least 3 times a week, it makes sense to spend about $ 500 and above.
A $5,500 will make you about $5,000 poorer than a $500 bike, and if you put the $5,500 bike on a credit card vs paying cash for a $500 bike then that makes you a fool.
If you ride as fast as you can on either bike you might save a minute of time on a 100 mile ride on the $5,500 bike vs the $500 bike, but the amount of time you saved riding the $5,500 bike you spent far more hours working overtime to pay for the bike and interest.
If you total the $5,500 bike you still owe your credit card bill, if you total the $500 bike you just go buy another $500 bike.
If after reading all the negatives concerning buying a $5,500 bike and you buy the $500 then that makes you to have a faster brain then a lot of people, and in this world where fast counts a faster brain is more important than faster legs unless you need to run from Big Foot.
If you ride as fast as you can on either bike you might save a minute of time on a 100 mile ride on the $5,500 bike vs the $500 bike, but the amount of time you saved riding the $5,500 bike you spent far more hours working overtime to pay for the bike and interest.
If you total the $5,500 bike you still owe your credit card bill, if you total the $500 bike you just go buy another $500 bike.
If after reading all the negatives concerning buying a $5,500 bike and you buy the $500 then that makes you to have a faster brain then a lot of people, and in this world where fast counts a faster brain is more important than faster legs unless you need to run from Big Foot.
I got by on $100 Canadian Tire specials for years, until I started mountain biking and road biking longer distances.
For me, quality didn't make much difference in getting around day to day, and I put a lot of miles on my cheap bike.
That being said, as soon as I started riding with a group I realized that my crappy bike couldn't keep up. Speed and comfort were just incomparable and I had to work way harder to make any progress on the trails or keep up with the group on the road.
Changing gears was way harder as well and my chain constantly slipped.
Upgrading to a used but higher quality bike for closer to $300 made a huge difference overall.
For me, quality didn't make much difference in getting around day to day, and I put a lot of miles on my cheap bike.
That being said, as soon as I started riding with a group I realized that my crappy bike couldn't keep up. Speed and comfort were just incomparable and I had to work way harder to make any progress on the trails or keep up with the group on the road.
Changing gears was way harder as well and my chain constantly slipped.
Upgrading to a used but higher quality bike for closer to $300 made a huge difference overall.
I was talking to this guy I just met at my bike club, he was an experienced former member. He was at the back of the pack all day. We were talking with one other member and I was asked how long I've been biking for. I said 4 months, she said 3 years and he said over 15..She told me that i'm pretty good for a beginner and he says "you have a good bike, its all about the bike"..I thought that was the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
I have a cannondale synapse alloy(a 1200 bike) and I'd say most bikes that people have in the group are of that quality at least or higher(besides his). I'm riding with people who have between 5-20 years of experience each. My youth doesn't matter, nor their experience, forget the fact that we are of varying weight....Yes, if you have a huffy, you will not keep up and yes his bike was a little older,but if you've been biking for 15 years with a tour de France winning road bike(says lance used that type of bike in an early tour), than it can't be only about the bike.
I've seen so many recreational cyclist with carbon frames and $1000 wheels and its apparent that the bike is low on the totem pole of importance. For some, an expensive bike may even make them slower. For example,a high priced bike may give someone a false sense of preparation. Some will say, "no need for that mid week session, ill keep up on Saturday with my light bike". Meanwhile the guy with the older bike may think he has to add a day or two to bridge the gap(that may not be as big as he thinks).
I have a cannondale synapse alloy(a 1200 bike) and I'd say most bikes that people have in the group are of that quality at least or higher(besides his). I'm riding with people who have between 5-20 years of experience each. My youth doesn't matter, nor their experience, forget the fact that we are of varying weight....Yes, if you have a huffy, you will not keep up and yes his bike was a little older,but if you've been biking for 15 years with a tour de France winning road bike(says lance used that type of bike in an early tour), than it can't be only about the bike.
I've seen so many recreational cyclist with carbon frames and $1000 wheels and its apparent that the bike is low on the totem pole of importance. For some, an expensive bike may even make them slower. For example,a high priced bike may give someone a false sense of preparation. Some will say, "no need for that mid week session, ill keep up on Saturday with my light bike". Meanwhile the guy with the older bike may think he has to add a day or two to bridge the gap(that may not be as big as he thinks).
First off I guarantee you if you put Armstrong or Fromme on a Huffy road bike he will beat anyone in your club, so Huffy or no it's mostly all about the engine.Uawadall said:
Secondly a $1000 pair of wheels, or lets just say for one wheel is excessive for a recreational cyclist but if they are trying to better themselves and wanted the bike to roll faster than wheels is an important upgrade, and it could be they intend on buying a better bike and transferring the $1000 wheels to a new bike later. I don't recommend for the non racer a $1,000 wheel but if you have the money, hey, it's their money. Cycling as become the new corporate/lawyer/doctor.engineer thing to do instead of golf, but I remember these corporate types when golf was the thing that they would spend $1,000 just on one club in hopes it would make them a better player, and besides the hype involved with the club virtually all but guaranteed it, but more importantly the clubs served as bragging points even though they may have a 20 handicap! It's all about the golfer not the club, but this same hype **** is now in cycling but it still boils down to the same old thing, it's about the person. Again a 20 handicapper could afford a $1,000 club times 14 plus the Porsche parked in the club lot which they couldn't drive either! but it's their right to buy whatever they want regardless if it does any good.
"Huffy or not its mostly about the engine"?Not at all when comparing yourself to your peers.When did I say an elite athlete would win?What I'm saying is the guy in front with a local group will struggle to keep up without any gearing. Chris Froome would get destroyed in the tour with a huffy against his peers, that's what i'm saying.Froze said:
Also, i'm not knocking people for expensive bikes, who wouldn't want a cool looking pro bike? I'm saying that its not even close to being the key to improvement. "Its about the engine" was the entire point of my post, maybe you missed that.
Obviously you missed me saying it was about the engine either directly or indirectly several times in my post...maybe you just missed those obvious statements.Uawadall said:
I understood your point 100% and agreed with 90% of it. By saying "Lance or Froome can beat you with a Huffy" gave me the impression that you didnt understand mine. "Its about the engine" was a direct refrence to your point. The "Huffy" statement was in regards to "Average Joes" and the guy in the groups situation, not pro's.Froze said:
