How much glass don't we see?



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> >>>>>and brush the tires with a gloved hand to catch what I couldn't.
> >>>>
> >>Because *if* there's something on there that's loose enough to brush
off,
> >>you've got 50% chance of banging it in instead of taking it out, and 50% chance of having it
> >>pierce your gloves and making you remember when you last got tetanus shots. Especially glass
> >>shards go through gloves like a hot knife through oil.

> A Muzi wrote:
> > Really ? I have never seen a case of that. Have you done it?

"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I once saw a guy using his index fingertip to keep his front tire clean. Couldn't decide whether
> he was tough or stupid.

Sorry, let me rephrase that. I see lots of riders my age who wipe tires. (superstitious) I have
never seen a cut glove ( or even finger) from doing that.

--
Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
 
"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Peter Cole wrote:
> > "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>(Personally, I ride on "tank treads," slime tubes AND kevlar liners.
> >
> > What's the big deal with an occasional flat?
>
> Inconvenience, and frankly I change tires so infrequently that I'm not entirely sure I remember
> all the little tricks to doing it right.(!)
>
> It's a great bike (2002 Lemond Tourmalet).

Why handicap a great bike with "tank treads"? Especially for so infrequent a problem? Patching a
tube is only unpleasant in really bad weather, otherwise, it can be a nice break, I've flatted in
some pretty scenic spots that I might not have noticed if I hadn't been forced to stop; I've also
met some nice people, strangers often stop to offer help when you've taken a wheel off.
 
debris is unreal. bird ****, dead bugs, sand and dry sewage from africa, burnt tequila cactus from
the yucatan, tire rubber!!-did you know that bacteria evolved to feed on roadside tire rubber dust?
from conti slicks!! otherwise there'd be a two foot berm of ^%^*((tire rubber roadside. glass... get
a magnet-salvage nice ones from used speakers, can also be used for a tool wall hanger or small
parts holder while repairing- and drag the magnet over the driveway. egad!! ferrous materials! tons
of it. everywhere. GODZILLA!! this defecation of debris rounds out to a total debris fall of about
1-2 FEET deep yearly. at least. and lets not forget meteorites and what was blown of the Martian
surface during their late cosmic debacle.

the magnet can be used to drag the drive for the lost powerlink half.
 
More directly, because it has no effect on incidence of punctures, as indicated by my God (and don't
think I'm kidding) Brandt.

--
Robin Hubert <[email protected] [/B]

I'm a wiper - and yes I did learn it to protect my sew-ups back in the day. I don't think it prevents punctures but I do think it prevents some tread cuts and therefore can extend tire life. I do it only after having ridden through some unavoidable road debris. A lot of the **** is really small stuff that originally just sticks to the rubber and doesn't cut right away. Jobst's FAQ article addressed only punctures, not tread cuts.

Once you learn how to do it properly I don't think it's any more dangerous than say - hooking your foot on the top of the saddle for a good quad stretch.
 
Diablo Scott writes:

> I'm a wiper - and yes I did learn it to protect my sew-ups back in the day. I don't think it
> prevents punctures but I do think it prevents some tread cuts and therefore can extend tire life.
> I do it only after having ridden through some unavoidable road debris. A lot of the **** is really
> small stuff that originally just sticks to the rubber and doesn't cut right away. Jobst's FAQ
> article addressed only punctures, not tread cuts.

I f you were to review the sequence of events when suspecting you rode through glass, you might
deduce that wiping serves only to make your fingers black (and your nose when you blow it the next
time). Have you reviewed the following:

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.15.html

> Once you learn how to do it properly I don't think it's any more dangerous than say - hooking your
> foot on the top of the saddle for a good quad stretch.

If you ride anything but an ancient bicycle, the seat tube is too close to the tire to wipe it. It's
sure finger breaker if you happen to touch the tire there. Besides, today most riders find pedaling
with only one hand on the bars foolishly dangerous. That's how we got rid of downtube shifters, they
required pedaling dangerously.

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
 
Peter Cole wrote:
> "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>Peter Cole wrote:
>>
>>>"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>>>(Personally, I ride on "tank treads," slime tubes AND kevlar liners.
>>>
>>>What's the big deal with an occasional flat?
>>
>>Inconvenience, and frankly I change tires so infrequently that I'm not entirely sure I remember
>>all the little tricks to doing it right.(!)
>>
>>It's a great bike (2002 Lemond Tourmalet).
>
>
> Why handicap a great bike with "tank treads"? Especially for so infrequent a problem? Patching a
> tube is only unpleasant in really bad weather, otherwise, it can be a nice break, I've flatted in
> some pretty scenic spots that I might not have noticed if I hadn't been forced to stop; I've also
> met some nice people, strangers often stop to offer help when you've taken a wheel off.

You have a point, but it comes down to my goals for riding. I'm not a weight freak, and I'm just
dipping my toe back into racing. I doubt I'll get serious about it. I guess I'd rather suffer the
weight and thereby grow stronger. If I turn out to have some new-found potential as a successful
bike racer, I'll end up investing in some quicker wheels.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
 
"g.daniels" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> debris is unreal. bird ****, dead bugs, sand and dry sewage from africa, burnt tequila cactus from
> the yucatan, tire rubber!!-did you know that bacteria evolved to feed on roadside tire rubber
> dust? from conti slicks!! otherwise there'd be a two foot berm of ^%^*((tire rubber roadside.
> glass... get a magnet-salvage nice ones from used speakers, can also be used for a tool wall
> hanger or small parts holder while repairing- and drag the magnet over the driveway. egad!!
> ferrous materials! tons of it. everywhere. GODZILLA!! this defecation of debris rounds out to a
> total debris fall of about 1-2 FEET deep yearly. at least. and lets not forget meteorites and what
> was blown of the Martian surface during their late cosmic debacle.
>
> the magnet can be used to drag the drive for the lost powerlink half.

That sounds like a good idea but wouldn't it be better to hire and industrial size electromagnet to
pick up all metallic debris from your driveway?

You could have it done before every ride, just think of the money you would save on not having to
buy new tires and tubes so frequently. ;->

Dashii
 
Originally posted by Jobst Brandt

I f you were to review the sequence of events when suspecting you rode through glass, you might
deduce that wiping serves only to make your fingers black (and your nose when you blow it the next
time). Have you reviewed the following:

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.15.html[/B]

Yes sir, twice now today and I remember seeing it when I read the entire FAQ months before I ever started posting here. A couple points:

The only statement in the article with which I disagree is your assertion that the debris would be irrecoverably imbedded into the tire before the wiping procedure could begin. I can attest that I've successfully wiped off stuff that was sticking (lightly) to my tires, I cannot document that the crud wouldn't have fallen off by itself before doing any damage, or that my wiping prevented a tread cut but I believe it has in some cases.

I usually use the one finger mucus ablution technique (a traditional skill which most riders still practice) followed by a semi-abrasive nose wipe radially outward along my index finger (most gloves have an appurtenance specifically for this function). The tire wiping contact area is of course the palm-side web between thumb and index finger so I've NEVER had any road crud transferred to my face as a result of tire wiping.


Originally posted by Jobst Brandt

If you ride anything but an ancient bicycle, the seat tube is too close to the tire to wipe it. It's
sure finger breaker if you happen to touch the tire there. Besides, today most riders find pedaling
with only one hand on the bars foolishly dangerous. That's how we got rid of downtube shifters, they
required pedaling dangerously.
[/B]

A couple more points:

There's about 6 inches of tire between the seatstays and the seat tube: tire wipers would be wise to aim for the middle (in recognition of the danger you cited) and should pause pedaling for the duration of the procedure.

Folks who have difficulty riding one handed will probably never attempt this skill; folks who cut their cycling teeth in the days of downtube friction shifters and Binda Extras currently (as a consequence of brake lever shifting and clipless pedal technology) have supererogatory legerdemain while riding which may be put to use elsewhere if desired with an acceptable margin of safety.

Would you autograph my book? I think I have a first edition.
 
[email protected] wrote in message news:<%IsBa.17947

> Besides, today most riders find pedaling with only one hand on the bars foolishly dangerous.

Yup you bet. It's only you old timers that have such exotic skills.

> That's how we got rid of downtube shifters, they required pedaling dangerously.
>

Yes, not having to ride for four decades before mastering the subtle art of shifting means
we are soft.
 
Diablo Scott writes:

> I f you were to review the sequence of events when suspecting you rode through glass, you might
> deduce that wiping serves only to make your fingers black (and your nose when you blow it the next
> time). Have you reviewed the following:

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.15.html

> Yes sir, twice now today and I remember seeing it when I read the entire FAQ months before I ever
> started posting here. A couple points:

> The only statement in the article with which I disagree is your assertion that the debris would be
> irrecoverably embedded into the tire before the wiping procedure could begin. I can attest that
> I've successfully wiped off stuff that was sticking (lightly) to my tires, I cannot document that
> the crud wouldn't have fallen off by itself before doing any damage, or that my wiping prevented a
> tread cut but I believe it has in some cases.

You don't know what that debris was and whether it was sharp enough to enter the tire, which it
would have by the time you could get to it, as I pointed out in the item you read. Noting the
revolutions per second of a wheel at average speed and the time it takes to get your hand to the
wipe makes that estimate highly likely,

> I usually use the one finger mucus ablution technique (a traditional skill which most riders still
> practice) followed by a semi-abrasive nose wipe radially outward along my index finger (most
> gloves have an appurtenance specifically for this function). The tire wiping contact area is of
> course the palm-side web between thumb and index finger so I've NEVER had any road crud
> transferred to my face as a result of tire wiping.

I recall all our tire wipers as having black nose flutes from the classic two-finger nose blow, that
one does from a bicycle... and elsewhere in 'polite' company.

>> If you ride anything but an ancient bicycle, the seat tube is too close to the tire to wipe it.
>> It's sure finger breaker if you happen to touch the tire there. Besides, today most riders find
>> pedaling with only one hand on the bars foolishly dangerous. That's how we got rid of downtube
>> shifters, they required pedaling dangerously.

> A couple more points:

> There's about 6 inches of tire between the seatstays and the seat tube: tire wipers would be wise
> to aim for the middle (in recognition of the danger you cited) and should pause pedaling for the
> duration of the procedure.

Would be wise, but tire wiping has practically vanished since the advent of "quick", "short coupled"
and "responsive frames". Of course all of these are dodges for bicycles that are needlessly short
and have stupidly close tire clearances that make riding on dirt roads impractical and make a spoke
failure a certain end of ride. Ain't progress great!

> Folks who have difficulty riding one handed will probably never attempt this skill [anachronism];
> folks who cut their cycling teeth in the days of downtube friction shifters and Binda Extras
> currently (as a consequence of brake lever shifting and clipless pedal technology) have
> supererogatory legerdemain while riding which may be put to use elsewhere if desired with an
> acceptable margin of safety.

True, but you won't convince most of those who read this newsgroup of that.

> Would you autograph my book? I think I have a first edition.

Sure, but they're all the same except the first was a silly grey cover that I abhor for it's
lifelessness. I'm sure a Diablo Wheelmen member who comes down this way would enable that.

> Check out my bike blog!

http://diabloscott.blogspot.com

Keep on riding. Check out rides at:

http://tinyurl.com/adls http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos.html

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
 
DiabloScott <[email protected]> writes:

>
> A couple more points:
>
> There's about 6 inches of tire between the seatstays and the seat tube: tire wipers would be wise
> to aim for the middle (in recognition of the danger you cited) and should pause pedaling for the
> duration of the procedure.

While I don't bother with tire wiping, there is a way to do it reasonably safely. The key is to hook
your thumb around the seatstay (above the brake, of course); this keeps the hand far enough away
from the seat tube to prevent it from getting sucked in.

Joe
 
Amit writes secretively:

>> Besides, today most riders find pedaling with only one hand on the bars foolishly dangerous.

> Yup you bet. It's only you old timers that have such exotic skills.

Oh, I wouldn't admit such ineptness. Maybe you started riding at a ripe age when quickness of hand
and balance was atrophied, but riders had no trouble mastering the art of bicycle racing in all its
tricks when they were in their teens.

>> That's how we got rid of downtube shifters, they required pedaling dangerously.

> Yes, not having to ride for four decades before mastering the subtle art of shifting means we
> are soft.

Maybe you see it that way, and I believe it when I hear people on bent frames, (who, when I ask
whether their bicycle rides straight ahead no-hands} reply, disgusted with the question, "I NEVER
ride no hands." as though I had suggested and immoral act.

I am often amused how OLD some bicyclists (and people in general) behave, taking themselves and
their bicycles so seriously. I've seen enough of them scoff when I jump a curb or ride down stairs
with my road bike. "One doesn't do that sort of dangerous kid stuff... at least not with MY
titanium, carbon, magnesium bicycle.

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
 
> I am often amused how OLD some bicyclists (and people in general) behave, taking themselves and
> their bicycles so seriously. I've seen enough of them scoff when I jump a curb or ride down stairs
> with my road bike. "One doesn't do that sort of dangerous kid stuff... at least not with MY
> titanium, carbon, magnesium bicycle.
>
> Jobst Brandt

This is truly great stuff. Jobst at his curmudgeonly best.

I wonder why the older I get, the better he sounds. Jobst is 68. And I'm fifty. Happy
Birthday to me.

--
Ted Bennett Portland OR
 
On Fri, 30 May 2003 05:00:14 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>Maybe you see it that way, and I believe it when I hear people on bent frames, (who, when I ask
>whether their bicycle rides straight ahead no-hands} reply, disgusted with the question, "I NEVER
>ride no hands." as though I had suggested and immoral act.

Immoral I don't know about, but it is actually illegal (here).

I also believe it's illegal to ride with only one hand. You are also required to stick out a hand as
a turn indicator.

So unless you're going only straight, it's illegal to ride a bike.

Hmmmmmm. Something seems to be wrong with this picture.

Jasper
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> Maybe you see it that way, and I believe it when I hear people on bent frames, (who, when I ask
> whether their bicycle rides straight ahead no-hands} reply, disgusted with the question, "I NEVER
> ride no hands." as though I had suggested and immoral act.

Here in MA, riding no-hands is actually illegal, part of a law which displays a nearly uniform lack
of understanding of cycling. I rarely see cyclists, especially those on fancy bikes, riding
no-hands, as you say, they seem to regard it as foolishly hazardous or some form of antic. I'm no
trick rider, but not long ago (really out of boredom) I rode a local rolling 30 mile road loop
entirely no-hands. It really wasn't hard or dangerous at all.
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

<snip>

> > Would you autograph my book? I think I have a first edition.
>
> Sure, but they're all the same except the first was a silly grey cover that I abhor for it's
> lifelessness. I'm sure a Diablo Wheelmen member who comes down this way would enable that.

Further bad news about the first editions -- they fall apart. I would take mine back for a
replacement, but I am sure it is out of warranty. BTW, those CAD diagrams were pretty cool back in
the Eniac days. -- Jay Beattie.
 
Peter Cole wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>Maybe you see it that way, and I believe it when I hear people on bent frames, (who, when I ask
>>whether their bicycle rides straight ahead no-hands} reply, disgusted with the question, "I NEVER
>>ride no hands." as though I had suggested and immoral act.
>
>
> Here in MA, riding no-hands is actually illegal, part of a law which displays a nearly uniform
> lack of understanding of cycling. I rarely see cyclists, especially those on fancy bikes, riding
> no-hands, as you say, they seem to regard it as foolishly hazardous or some form of antic. I'm no
> trick rider, but not long ago (really out of boredom) I rode a local rolling 30 mile road loop
> entirely no-hands. It really wasn't hard or dangerous at all.

I can't imagine riding a century or any other reasonably long distance without at least once sitting
up no-hands. The law is sometimes(?) self-contradictory, which is why we pay cops so well to use
their discretion. (Oh, we don't, do we?)

But riding 30 miles no-hands? Weirdo.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
 
DiabloScott

> Once you learn how to do it properly I don't think it's any more dangerous than say - hooking your
> foot on the top of the saddle for a good quad stretch.

Speaking of which do you know the foot scrape? Hook the foot under the bars or bring the leg back
over the saddle. This one is for removing molten tarmac and the grit stuck to it.

Andrew Bradley
 
pick up the glass pick up the glass yohoyhooo this is the way we pick up the glass. visit the roger
dumsey map site with the japanese hot air ballon maps?? whew think abt eniac!! great bell!! people
wiping grap off the tread at 15+ are expletive deleted nuts.
 
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