How much Seat Post?

[Jaguar27]

OK, here's a good one (to me anyway)...

You Buy a Road Bike, have it fitted...when all is said and done, how much Seat Post should be showing?

I'm talking about the average recreational Rider btw

 

[531Aussie]

here's a gazillion pics of pro bikes -- they (the pros) tend to have a little more than usual seatpost showing

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005#pro
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2004#pro
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2003#pro

Armstrong was considered to have a more "Joe Average" set-up than most other pros:

 

[gclark8]

For a Compact Road Frame, this may help: http://www.giant-bicycle.com/us/050.000.000/050.600.100.asp

 

[hd reynolds]

OK, here's a good one (to me anyway)...

You Buy a Road Bike, have it fitted...when all is said and done, how much Seat Post should be showing?

I'm talking about the average recreational Rider btw

The "seatpost showing" is the difference between your optimal seat height and the stand-over height. Determined these two and the "seatpost showing" will follow.

 

[John M]

OK, here's a good one (to me anyway)...

You Buy a Road Bike, have it fitted...when all is said and done, how much Seat Post should be showing?

I'm talking about the average recreational Rider btw

Depends on the frame geometry. If the reach to the bars is correct, the seat height correct, and the fit otherwise comfortable, then whatever amount is showing is the correct amount.

 

[Jaguar27]

Thanks for the replies Guys, sorry I'm lagging...

The reason I was asking is that I went for a Bike fit the other Day, I've been riding my Six13 for around 16 months already..I tend to procrastinate...

I like a "bigger" frame, it's hard to explain but I'd rather sit "Into" a Bike than be perched on top of it...

I'm around 5' 11" and ride a 58...I also like the Saddle height a bit higher than what "they" say it should be...

To cut a long story short, by the time the saddle was moved down to where it "should" be (fore and aft was virtually perfect already, maybe 5-10 mm too far back) the Fitter told me I need a 56, not a 58 and I should buy a new Bike (or Frame) because there isn't enough Seat Post showing...

Hmmm...even with the seat in the position he reckons it should be there is still a fist full showing, which used to be the old rule of thumb...

I love my six13, I don't want to buy another, or even another Frame...but the Fitter says I'll be miserable on my present Bike and won't want to ride...I've already done over 3500 miles on it!!

There seems to be an awfull lot of "should be's" involved in Bike Fit...

My 13 is really comfy, I felt I'd set it up just right myself, my last Dale was a 58 too...the bike before that was a 56 felt and even though felts come a little small, I never got comfy on it..

What do you Guys think

 

[free_rideman]

One thing that never mattered, and bike shops always never truly explained, is the fact, that stuff like seatpost "amount showing", and seat tube height never mattered. Or how they say "standover", etc..

What really matters is the top tube length, head and seat angles, and finally the stem and handlebar combo.

The seat tube helps in positioning the rider over the cranks. This doesn't matter too much, since seatposts have rail adjustment, and seatback, and tilt, but the seat tube angle kind of decides how all the other tubes of the bike would be welded together and what lengths are used. This makes the bike's handling properties.

Now the head angle is important, it obviously makes the bike have its steering properties. (generally more competitive road bikes have a steeper head angle than seat angle) The real thing that makes the head angle important, is the fact that when the seat angle and head angle axes are drawn out to infinity, they will cross over at a point. Thus, for example, on a competitive oriented road bike, if lets say your seat was really high, and so was your stem, will many spacers underneath, than you will be farther stretched out. As opposed to when your seat is just above the top tube, and you don't use any spacers under the stem.

Lastly is the top tube and the stem/handlebar combo. Here you want to find a happy medium. You don't want your top tube to be too short, so then you get a huge stem and long reach bar, since this will make your steering very slow. But you also don't want to have a bike with a super long top tube, since then the stem and bar combo will have a very short reach. Thus your steering won't be stable, and it will be too quick, which obviously it bad at speed. This is your case right now. Your top tube is too long, and your stem and bars have to be too close. Unless you have super monkey arms. But your case shouldn't be too bad.

I used to ride a trek 58cm (really a 57.3 top tube) but now have a fort that is 56.5 top tube. I am your same height. The new fort feels tons better.

But I don't think it should be that bad.

but remember, seat posts/tubes don't matter. It is all about your reach (and balancing it), and all about your knees (not killing them, and getting them into a good pedaling position).

-for the future, definitely go for a smaller bike (which really is your ideal size). They work with you so much better.

-ask if you need me to clarify. I get too excited when writing these posts.

 

[tetsuryuu]

I'm about your height (5'11") and I don't think I could comfortably ride a 58cm bike because of the reach issue discussed in the above post. My guess is that if you "should" be riding a 56, in order to get the reach correct/comfortable, you have to have a pretty short stem (<100mm) which will make the bike squirrely. That said, some people are comfortable being really stretched out on a bike, and that certainly can have its advantages, like putting you in a better aero position. But anyway, next time you do end up looking for a new frame, at least consider the 56 and get yourself fitted by a reputable bike shop or professional service; the new fit might feel funny or different at first, but in the long run I'd bet you'll be more comfortable.

 

[531Aussie]

I'm 6ft, and I'm pretty much at my limit on my 58

 

[artmichalek]

To cut a long story short, by the time the saddle was moved down to where it "should" be (fore and aft was virtually perfect already, maybe 5-10 mm too far back) the Fitter told me I need a 56, not a 58 and I should buy a new Bike (or Frame) because there isn't enough Seat Post showing...

And I'm sure he offered you a great deal on a new frame... As long as you're comfortable with the reach and standover, the nominal size is pretty much irrelevant. Saying that a frame is the wrong size based on the length of the seat post is nonsense. I hope you didn't pay too much for the service. As an aside you can probably save yourself some weight by hacking a few cm off the bottom of that seat post.

 

[Flatscan]

The reason I was asking is that I went for a Bike fit the other Day, I've been riding my Six13 for around 16 months already..I tend to procrastinate...

I like a "bigger" frame, it's hard to explain but I'd rather sit "Into" a Bike than be perched on top of it...

I'm around 5' 11" and ride a 58...I also like the Saddle height a bit higher than what "they" say it should be...

To cut a long story short, by the time the saddle was moved down to where it "should" be (fore and aft was virtually perfect already, maybe 5-10 mm too far back) the Fitter told me I need a 56, not a 58 and I should buy a new Bike (or Frame) because there isn't enough Seat Post showing...

Hmmm...even with the seat in the position he reckons it should be there is still a fist full showing, which used to be the old rule of thumb...

I love my six13, I don't want to buy another, or even another Frame...but the Fitter says I'll be miserable on my present Bike and won't want to ride...I've already done over 3500 miles on it!!

There seems to be an awfull lot of "should be's" involved in Bike Fit...

My 13 is really comfy, I felt I'd set it up just right myself, my last Dale was a 58 too...the bike before that was a 56 felt and even though felts come a little small, I never got comfy on it..

I'm 5'7", and I used to ride a 56cm Cannondale, which is absolutely 1 or 2 sizes too large. I didn't ride it for a few years, and when I started again, I changed the stem from 120mm to 90mm and the seatpost from 20mm offset to zero-offset. I always felt a little stretched out and sitting too far forward (my glutes seemed under-utilized). My torso seems shorter than what is typically proportional.

My new bike is a Small Giant TCR 2, which has a top tube length of 25mm less, most of which has gone into saddle setback. It's a compact frame, so I have roughly 9" from top of seat tube to saddle rail. My 14" GT mountain bike is similar - I had to buy a 400mm seatpost because I was borderline with max extension on a 350mm. I'm definitely a compact frame, small bike convert.

Was there any particular reason you went for a fit (e.g. discomfort or specific concerns about muscle utilization)? I'm not reading that from your post.

Questions about the fitting process:

• Was a reason given for dropping your saddle, e.g. rocking your hips while pedalling? How far was it lowered (it sounds like a substantial amount)?
• Do you have less than 1" of clearance over the top tube when straddling the bike?
• How was fore/aft saddle position determined? Was a plumb-bob dropped from the tip of your knee, and did the fitter say anything about "knee over pedal spindle" (KOPS)?
• Did the fitter observe you while pedalling, or did he take a bunch of static measurements?

 

[deckard]

I am 5' 10" 152lbs and here is where my seat height is on a 54. My LBS fit me 2 times and over an hour each time switching out stems for me until I felt comfortable. After the first fitting I rode 120 miles and then went back and told them what I felt was off or where I had soreness or felt uncomfortable. Then we dialed it in a lot better. I ended up using a shorter stem which is perfect now. Keep in mind frames and angles on the frame are not the same on different brand bike frames.

 

[Jaguar27]

Questions about the fitting process:

• Was a reason given for dropping your saddle, e.g. rocking your hips while pedalling? How far was it lowered (it sounds like a substantial amount)?
• Do you have less than 1" of clearance over the top tube when straddling the bike?
• How was fore/aft saddle position determined? Was a plumb-bob dropped from the tip of your knee, and did the fitter say anything about "knee over pedal spindle" (KOPS)?
• Did the fitter observe you while pedalling, or did he take a bunch of static measurements?

The reason given for dropping the Saddle was that my heel wouldn't touch the Pedal when it was at the bottom of the stroke, it was probably 10mm away...my hips weren't rocking because I tend to pedal slightly "toes down" anyway...

The fore/aft of the saddle was determined by dropping a plumb line from that bone just below the knee Cap, so no, it wasn't from the tip of the Cap...it turned out I was within 1cm of the Center of the spindle, behind in fact...so the tip of my knee Cap would be directly over the center line...so no complaints there....

The Fitter observed me pedaling but took static measurements as well.

By the way, I forgot to add initially that I'm 50, not TOO flexible although I'm working on that...and like to do 20-40 mile rides with the ocassional Century and longer rides etc, I'm purely a recreational rider and love to ride as often as I can, the reason I went for a Fit is that I've never had one before and wanted to see if I was missing something....

Thanks very much to all who have replied, I really appreciate it.

Oh, I almost forgot, in March we went to Maui, I rented a 56 Cannondale but the stem was much longer than mine...I rode it for 4 Days and climbed Haleakala on it...as I was riding I was trying to compare my 58 to the 56 but of course it was difficult with the longer stem...but it seemed kinda fine...I did miss the faster steering on my Bike though, but I guess after 14 months I'm just used to it...

I seem to pedal more efficiently with the Saddle slightly high, is that just me?

The reach on my bike is great, I can sit in the drops with no strain on my neck etc....

I wouldn't MIND buying another Frame if it was absolutely neccessary and it would make a huge difference...but I'm not sure it would

 

[John M]

The reason given for dropping the Saddle was that my heel wouldn't touch the Pedal when it was at the bottom of the stroke, it was probably 10mm away...my hips weren't rocking because I tend to pedal slightly "toes down" anyway...

The fore/aft of the saddle was determined by dropping a plumb line from that bone just below the knee Cap, so no, it wasn't from the tip of the Cap...it turned out I was within 1cm of the Center of the spindle, behind in fact...so the tip of my knee Cap would be directly over the center line...so no complaints there....

The Fitter observed me pedaling but took static measurements as well.

By the way, I forgot to add initially that I'm 50, not TOO flexible although I'm working on that...and like to do 20-40 mile rides with the ocassional Century and longer rides etc, I'm purely a recreational rider and love to ride as often as I can, the reason I went for a Fit is that I've never had one before and wanted to see if I was missing something....

Thanks very much to all who have replied, I really appreciate it.

Oh, I almost forgot, in March we went to Maui, I rented a 56 Cannondale but the stem was much longer than mine...I rode it for 4 Days and climbed Haleakala on it...as I was riding I was trying to compare my 58 to the 56 but of course it was difficult with the longer stem...but it seemed kinda fine...I did miss the faster steering on my Bike though, but I guess after 14 months I'm just used to it...

I seem to pedal more efficiently with the Saddle slightly high, is that just me?

The reach on my bike is great, I can sit in the drops with no strain on my neck etc....

I wouldn't MIND buying another Frame if it was absolutely neccessary and it would make a huge difference...but I'm not sure it would

Don't buy a new frame. You have 3500 miles on this one and it feels good to you--ride it and don't worry about what any so-called experts say. The fit equations are based on averages and should be used as starting points, nothing more. I think that you probably surmise correctly that you are fine with your saddle height since you are a "toes down" pedaller. The whole knee-over-pedal spindle thing is another starting point. Some people are more comfortable a little more forward, others a little more back. The key thing is to have the right balance on the bike and the saddle in a place that comfortably allows putting the power to the pedals. As far as reach goes, I suspect that your 58 brings the bars up a bit since the head tube is longer than on a 56cm. If you can go comfortably in the drops for an extended period of time, you are in a good position. I am sure that you could find a good fit on a 56 with compensations made with stem length, rise, etc.., but why bother. You have a wonderful bike in the six13 and "will be miserable" is obviously wrong since 3500 miles proves that you are not miserable.

You sound like an experienced rider and are therefore the best judge of your fit and comfort. A lot of novices have gotten into cycling the past few years (probably the Lance factor) and they likely benefit from the "professional" fittings. Even they should use the pro-fit as a starting point and gradually make changes, if needed, incrementally from that starting point to optimize comfort and efficiency.

 

[Jaguar27]

Thanks John...
I seem to have the right balance on my Bike, a good pedalling circle and about the right amount of weight on my Hands...so I think you're right, a 56 wouldn't be that much of an improvement, plus I'd have to buy a Frame and Forks and maybe Cranks because mine are integrated....plus the cost of having all of it put together etc...and it takes quite a while to dial a Bike in perfectly....

I guess the amount of post showing doesn't really matter all that much, at least I have room for my little tool bag under the saddle...

Thanks again, I really appreciate your time!!

Don't buy a new frame. You have 3500 miles on this one and it feels good to you--ride it and don't worry about what any so-called experts say. The fit equations are based on averages and should be used as starting points, nothing more. I think that you probably surmise correctly that you are fine with your saddle height since you are a "toes down" pedaller. The whole knee-over-pedal spindle thing is another starting point. Some people are more comfortable a little more forward, others a little more back. The key thing is to have the right balance on the bike and the saddle in a place that comfortably allows putting the power to the pedals. As far as reach goes, I suspect that your 58 brings the bars up a bit since the head tube is longer than on a 56cm. If you can go comfortably in the drops for an extended period of time, you are in a good position. I am sure that you could find a good fit on a 56 with compensations made with stem length, rise, etc.., but why bother. You have a wonderful bike in the six13 and "will be miserable" is obviously wrong since 3500 miles proves that you are not miserable.

You sound like an experienced rider and are therefore the best judge of your fit and comfort. A lot of novices have gotten into cycling the past few years (probably the Lance factor) and they likely benefit from the "professional" fittings. Even they should use the pro-fit as a starting point and gradually make changes, if needed, incrementally from that starting point to optimize comfort and efficiency.