How much should I warm up beforehand for a 10m TimeTrial?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Me, Jun 17, 2003.

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  1. Me

    Me Guest

    Does anyone know of a website that give a general chart for warm up times in relation to distances
    to be ridden?

    i.e. if I'm riding a 10 mile TT and hope to do it in 25+ mins how long should I warm up?

    what about a 25 mile one?

    I'm always worried about trying myself out, but my times how that I start off slower for the first
    couple of miles and consitently get quicker until the end, so perhaps I'm holding back too much when
    I warm up..

    While I'm at it anyone know where a beginner can get some info on riding TTs in the first place?

    any advice would be appreciated.

    cheers
     
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  2. "Me" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Does anyone know of a website that give a general chart for warm up
    times in
    > relation to distances to be ridden?
    >

    www.ultrafit.com

    JT

    --
    *******************************************
    NB: reply-to address is munged

    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    *******************************************
     
  3. Me

    Me Guest

    hmmm, I tried ultrafit as suggested, but I dont have $250 to access their coaching area. Am I
    missing something -if so can you post a direct link to that area?

    If anyone has any free suggestions on how much I warm up I'd be grateful and a lot less poor...

    -cheers,

    "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Me" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Does anyone know of a website that give a general chart for warm up
    > times in
    > > relation to distances to be ridden?
    > >
    >
    > www.ultrafit.com
    >
    > JT
    >
    > --
    > *******************************************
    > NB: reply-to address is munged
    >
    > Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    > *******************************************
     
  4. "Me" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > hmmm, I tried ultrafit as suggested, but I dont have $250 to access their coaching area. Am I
    > missing something -if so can you post a direct link to that area?
    >
    > If anyone has any free suggestions on how much I warm up I'd be grateful and a lot less poor...

    They used to have a FAQ section with this info but I see the site is re-organized. The E-Tips have
    similar info, but I can't say which one.

    JT
     
  5. John Meerse

    John Meerse Guest

    From Palmares internet site: WARMUP: You will need a consistent warm-up routine that you use for all
    TT's. This eliminates a performance variable, helps give you confidence, and hopefully gets you
    thoroughly warmed up. Use whatever routine you feel works for you, experiment a bit. The goal is to
    be completely warmed up but not tired, which is a slippery slope to climb, admittedly. I like to
    encourage short high cadence efforts of not more than 2 minutes, standing(30 sec)and seated(full 2
    min). Of course this is after a minimum of 30 minutes easy to moderate riding as a warm-up. Finish
    your warm-up 15 minutes prior to your start time. Roll up you skin suit,(you should ride with the
    top rolled down, so it does not get wet during warm-up) and proceed close to the start area.
    Approximately 2 minutes before your start, begin slow deep breathing. This helps you bank some
    oxygen that will help get you thru the first mile or so. Relax.:)

    There's also a pretty good warm-up I've used before from USA Cycling's 1996 training manual:

    20 min easy on the road 10 min at Zone 3 (on trainer) 1 min zone 1 (trainer) 5 min zone 3
    (trainer) 4 min zone 4 (trainer) 3 min zone 2 (trainer) 2 min zone 5 (trainer) 5 min zone 3
    (rollers -- 100 rpm) 2 min zone 4 (rollers -- 120 rpm) 5 min zone 2 (rollers -- 100 rpm) Go
    directly to the start line

    I think the main idea on warming up for TTs is to get some lactic acid flowing in the middle of the
    warm up, so that it can be cleared from the legs by the end, and so that your legs don't get that
    "first interval of the day" feeling right at the beginning of the TT.

    good luck!

    "Me" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > hmmm, I tried ultrafit as suggested, but I dont have $250 to access their coaching area. Am I
    > missing something -if so can you post a direct link to that area?
    >
    > If anyone has any free suggestions on how much I warm up I'd be grateful and a lot less poor...
    >
    > -cheers,
    >
    >
    > "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Me" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > Does anyone know of a website that give a general chart for warm up
    > times in
    > > > relation to distances to be ridden?
    > > >
    > >
    > > www.ultrafit.com
    > >
    > > JT
    > >
    > > --
    > > *******************************************
    > > NB: reply-to address is munged
    > >
    > > Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    > > *******************************************
    > >
    > >
     
  6. John Meerse <[email protected]> wrote:
    : Approximately 2 minutes before your start, begin slow deep breathing. This helps you bank some
    : oxygen that will help get you thru the first mile or so. Relax.:)

    AFAIK the human body can't store any excess oxygen. If you hyperventilate you only lose some
    carbondioxide.

    : There's also a pretty good warm-up I've used before from USA Cycling's 1996 training manual:

    : 20 min easy on the road 10 min at Zone 3 (on trainer) 1 min zone 1 (trainer) 5 min zone 3
    : (trainer) 4 min zone 4 (trainer) 3 min zone 2 (trainer) 2 min zone 5 (trainer) 5 min zone 3
    : (rollers -- 100 rpm) 2 min zone 4 (rollers -- 120 rpm) 5 min zone 2 (rollers -- 100 rpm) Go
    : directly to the start line

    Thanks, I'll save it for reference... though... wasn't zone 4 maximal anaerobic effort? :p

    --
    Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html varis at no spam please iki fi
     
  7. Warren

    Warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Andy Coggan
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:290620031744115120%[email protected]...
    > > In article <[email protected]>, erik saunders <[email protected]>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > > zone 5 is a max effort... but thats the whole point... a warm-up for a
    > TT
    > > > (especially a short one like 10k) is all about turning your body's
    > lactic acid
    > > > clearing system "on" before you start.. that way it will be ready to
    > recycle
    > > > all the the lactate that you will build up in an intense effort right
    > off the
    > > > ramp... otherwise, (if you system isnt "on") you will either be in a lot
    > of
    > > > pain with bad legs off the bat, or you will have to ease into your
    > effort on
    > > > the road (costing you a lot of time)... if an intense warm up screws you
    > over
    > > > for the race, then you arent any good anyway and you need to train
    > more...
    > >
    > > True stuff. I saw this during my lactate threshold test (increasing workload). Blood lactate
    > > climbs for about 8 minutes, makes a little dip (when "the system turns on") and then starts to
    > > climb again.
    >
    > Before this becomes the stuff of urban legend (like the notion that training too hard early in the
    > season will destroy all your newly-formed capillaries), let me chime in here...

    Did Rick Crawford ever say "destroy all"? I wonder because I mentioned this discussion to Max and he
    knows Rick and tended to doubt he would say something like "destroy all". Max says it's more like
    "inhibits", and aerobic ability will decrease slightly when more anaerobic training is introduced.

    > A "dip" in blood lactate during an incremental exercise test is an aberration,

    I was told it was not uncommon. Here's what the graph/chart from my first LT test 3 months
    ago shows...

    Measured every 4 minutes... First lactate measurement: 1.7mMol/L, 124bpm, 100 watts second
    measurement: .9mMol/L, 133bpm, 140 watts third measurement: 1.7mMol/L, 143bpm, 180 watts fourth
    measurement: 2.6mMol/L, 150bpm, 220 watts fifth measurement: 4.6mMol/L, 163bpm, 260 watts

    I'm doing another test next Wednesday.

    > ...and is not evidence that lactate clearance has suddenly been activated. The latter, in fact,
    > doesn't get "turned on" by warming up or prior exercise - rather, it is lactate production that
    > gets "turned off".

    How could less lactate be produced (briefly) as the workload increases?

    > The effect/practical implications, however, are the same - as Erik says, if you aren't adequately
    > warmed up prior to starting a very intense effort such as a 10 mile TT, you will likely feel like
    > your legs are heavy/swollen/dead after you sprint away from the line, causing a massive burst of
    > glycogenolysis and associated lactate accumulation.

    I used to have UltraFuel before races but Max mentioned this "glycogenolysis and associated lactate
    accumulation" as a reason not to have too many simple carbs right before a race.

    -WG
     
  8. Andy Coggan

    Andy Coggan Guest

    "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:300620031849122423%[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Andy Coggan
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:290620031744115120%[email protected]...
    > > > In article <[email protected]>, erik saunders <[email protected]>
    > > > wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > zone 5 is a max effort... but thats the whole point... a warm-up for
    a
    > > TT
    > > > > (especially a short one like 10k) is all about turning your body's
    > > lactic acid
    > > > > clearing system "on" before you start.. that way it will be ready to
    > > recycle
    > > > > all the the lactate that you will build up in an intense effort
    right
    > > off the
    > > > > ramp... otherwise, (if you system isnt "on") you will either be in a
    lot
    > > of
    > > > > pain with bad legs off the bat, or you will have to ease into your
    > > effort on
    > > > > the road (costing you a lot of time)... if an intense warm up screws
    you
    > > over
    > > > > for the race, then you arent any good anyway and you need to train
    > > more...
    > > >
    > > > True stuff. I saw this during my lactate threshold test (increasing workload). Blood lactate
    > > > climbs for about 8 minutes, makes a little
    dip
    > > > (when "the system turns on") and then starts to climb again.
    > >
    > > Before this becomes the stuff of urban legend (like the notion that
    training
    > > too hard early in the season will destroy all your newly-formed capillaries), let me chime in
    > > here...
    >
    > Did Rick Crawford ever say "destroy all"? I wonder because I mentioned this discussion to Max and
    > he knows Rick and tended to doubt he would say something like "destroy all". Max says it's more
    > like "inhibits", and aerobic ability will decrease slightly when more anaerobic training is
    > introduced.

    The urban legend about capillaries being destroyed was started by that expert in physiology, Mike
    Walden, and thus predates Crawford by a long shot.
    >
    > > A "dip" in blood lactate during an incremental exercise test is an aberration,
    >
    > I was told it was not uncommon.

    It happens only if A) the subject is nervous, leading to a sympathetically-mediated increase in
    lactate at rest, which is then metabolized during exercise, and/or B) if the athlete "jumps into"
    the first workload with too much enthusiasm, e.g., rapidly accelerating the ergometer up to speed,
    and/or spinning at an excessively high rate given the power output (often done by riders who wish to
    impress everyone with their Armstrongesque "spin"). Both of these known issues can be avoided by
    experienced testers by A) allowing plenty of time between placement of the catheter for blood
    drawing and the start of the test, and B) discouraging the rider from "attacking" the first few
    power outputs, by emphasizing that they will be relatively low loads, that the test will take a
    little while, and that they should just relax and go with the flow. (Of course, many people are
    either ignorant of these details, or don't sweat them, since it is when lactate eventually starts to
    rise that really matters...the early data are therefore practically irrelevant).

    > Here's what the graph/chart from my first LT test 3 months ago shows...

    Was this the first test you did? How were blood samples obtained? Have you ever been a subject in
    biomedical experiments before? Ever been in the hospital?

    > Measured every 4 minutes... First lactate measurement: 1.7mMol/L, 124bpm, 100 watts second
    > measurement: .9mMol/L, 133bpm, 140 watts third measurement: 1.7mMol/L, 143bpm, 180 watts fourth
    > measurement: 2.6mMol/L, 150bpm, 220 watts fifth measurement: 4.6mMol/L, 163bpm, 260 watts
    >
    > I'm doing another test next Wednesday.
    >
    > > ...and is not evidence that lactate clearance has suddenly been activated. The latter, in fact,
    > > doesn't get "turned on" by warming up or prior exercise - rather, it is lactate production that
    > > gets "turned
    off".
    >
    > How could less lactate be produced (briefly) as the workload increases?

    We were talking about the effects of a pre-race warm-up, not what happens during an incremental
    exercise test to determine threshold. In any case, however, it is a fact that following the onset of
    muscle contractions, glycogen phosphorylase becomes refractory to further extensive activation,
    leading to a rapid decline in the rate of glycogen degradation and lactate production even though
    exercise continues (or increases in intensity). If not for this, glycogen would become depleted much
    more rapidly during sustained exercise than it normally is, as the initial "burst" of glycogenolysis
    (mediated via Ca2+ release from the SR) is just that: a very rapid process that is unsustainable.

    > > The effect/practical implications, however, are the same - as Erik says,
    if
    > > you aren't adequately warmed up prior to starting a very intense effort
    such
    > > as a 10 mile TT, you will likely feel like your legs are
    heavy/swollen/dead
    > > after you sprint away from the line, causing a massive burst of glycogenolysis and associated
    > > lactate accumulation.
    >
    > I used to have UltraFuel before races but Max mentioned this "glycogenolysis and associated
    > lactate accumulation" as a reason not to have too many simple carbs right before a race.

    While carbohydrate ingestion prior to exercise will result in a slight increase in lactate
    accumulation during exercise, the difference is quite small, and lactate itself really isn't a
    causitive factor in fatigue. The only reason to avoid pre-exercise carbohydrate ingestion is if A)
    it leads to digestive problems, or B) it results in severe hypoglycemia and therefore
    neuroglucopenia.

    Andy Coggan
     
  9. Warren

    Warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Andy Coggan
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:300620031849122423%[email protected]...
    > > In article <[email protected]>, Andy Coggan
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > > A "dip" in blood lactate during an incremental exercise test is an aberration,
    > >
    > > I was told it was not uncommon.
    >
    > It happens only if A) the subject is nervous, ...B) if the athlete "jumps into" the first workload
    > with too much enthusiasm, e.g., rapidly accelerating the ergometer up to speed, ... Both of these
    > known issues can be avoided by experienced testers by A) allowing plenty of time between placement
    > of the catheter for blood drawing and the start of the test, and B) discouraging the rider from
    > "attacking" the first few power outputs, ...

    I'd say that Max knows how to conduct the test and I was relaxed. I remember thinking that this guy
    has done the same test on Micheli Bartoli so nothing I could do would impress him. Besides, trying
    to ride differently might skew the results and then they wouldn't be as useful.

    > > Here's what the graph/chart from my first LT test 3 months ago shows...
    >
    > Was this the first test you did? How were blood samples obtained? Have you ever been a subject in
    > biomedical experiments before? Ever been in the hospital?

    Yes, prick of the earlobe while riding, yes, yes.
    >
    > > Measured every 4 minutes... First lactate measurement: 1.7mMol/L, 124bpm, 100 watts second
    > > measurement: .9mMol/L, 133bpm, 140 watts third measurement: 1.7mMol/L, 143bpm, 180 watts fourth
    > > measurement: 2.6mMol/L, 150bpm, 220 watts fifth measurement: 4.6mMol/L, 163bpm, 260 watts

    > > I used to have UltraFuel before races but Max mentioned this "glycogenolysis and associated
    > > lactate accumulation" as a reason not to have too many simple carbs right before a race.
    >
    > While carbohydrate ingestion prior to exercise will result in a slight increase in lactate
    > accumulation during exercise, the difference is quite small, and lactate itself really isn't a
    > causitive factor in fatigue. The only reason to avoid pre-exercise carbohydrate ingestion is if A)
    > it leads to digestive problems, or B) it results in severe hypoglycemia and therefore
    > neuroglucopenia.

    He/I was referring to relying on simple carbs as the only fuel before a criterium. He suggested
    complex carbs and a little protein 2-3 hours prior and sipping (5-7%) sports drink during the hour
    before the start. IOW, don't load up on simple carbs 2 hours prior to the event.

    -WG
     
  10. Andy Coggan

    Andy Coggan Guest

    "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:010720030941537310%[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Andy Coggan
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:300620031849122423%[email protected]...
    > > > In article <[email protected]>, Andy Coggan
    > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > > > A "dip" in blood lactate during an incremental exercise test is an aberration,
    > > >
    > > > I was told it was not uncommon.
    > >
    > > It happens only if A) the subject is nervous, ...B) if the athlete
    "jumps into" the first
    > > workload with too much enthusiasm, e.g., rapidly accelerating the
    ergometer
    > > up to speed, ... Both of these known issues can be avoided by experienced testers by A) allowing
    > > plenty of time between placement of
    the
    > > catheter for blood drawing and the start of the test, and B)
    discouraging
    > > the rider from "attacking" the first few power outputs, ...
    >
    > I'd say that Max knows how to conduct the test and I was relaxed.

    Well, one or the other of you screwed up, because even for a track sprinter there's no reason/need
    for lactate to jump to 1.7 mmol/L (about double the normal resting level) at only 1 W/kg!

    Question: was a pre-exercise blood sample obtained? If so, that may shed some light on why your
    blood lactate concentration was inordinately high at such a low power output.

    > > > Here's what the graph/chart from my first LT test 3 months ago shows...

    > > > Measured every 4 minutes... First lactate measurement: 1.7mMol/L, 124bpm, 100 watts second
    > > > measurement: .9mMol/L, 133bpm, 140 watts third measurement: 1.7mMol/L, 143bpm, 180 watts
    > > > fourth measurement: 2.6mMol/L, 150bpm, 220 watts fifth measurement: 4.6mMol/L, 163bpm, 260
    > > > watts

    Andy Coggan
     
  11. Andy Coggan wrote:

    > We were talking about the effects of a pre-race warm-up, not what happens during an incremental
    > exercise test to determine threshold. In any case, however, it is a fact that following the onset
    > of muscle contractions, glycogen phosphorylase becomes refractory to further extensive activation,
    > leading to a rapid decline in the rate of glycogen degradation and lactate production even though
    > exercise continues (or increases in intensity). If not for this, glycogen would become depleted
    > much more rapidly during sustained exercise than it normally is, as the initial "burst" of
    > glycogenolysis (mediated via Ca2+ release from the SR) is just that: a very rapid process that is
    > unsustainable.

    English, please.
     
  12. Raptor

    Raptor Guest

    Stewart Fleming wrote:
    >
    >
    > Andy Coggan wrote:
    >
    >> We were talking about the effects of a pre-race warm-up, not what happens during an incremental
    >> exercise test to determine threshold. In any case, however, it is a fact that following the onset
    >> of muscle contractions, glycogen phosphorylase becomes refractory to further extensive
    >> activation, leading to a rapid decline in the rate of glycogen degradation and lactate production
    >> even though exercise continues (or increases in intensity). If not for this, glycogen would
    >> become depleted much more rapidly during sustained exercise than it normally is, as the initial
    >> "burst" of glycogenolysis (mediated via Ca2+ release from the SR) is just that: a very rapid
    >> process that is unsustainable.
    >
    >
    > English, please.

    Me too. I know what some of those words mean, but not necessarily in combination.

    As one who's not serious or rich enough to dive into the material as a pro, medical or athletic, I'm
    eating all this info up to the extent I can grok it. Thanks Andy and you other experts.

    What did you mean by saying that some lactic acid production gets "turned off?" Is that other body
    functions that give way to the increased demands of the muscles?

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
    charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
     
  13. Warren

    Warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Andy Coggan
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:010720030941537310%[email protected]...
    > > In article <[email protected]>, Andy Coggan
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Question: was a pre-exercise blood sample obtained? If so, that may shed some light on why your
    > blood lactate concentration was inordinately high at such a low power output.

    I don't remember. I rode the erg for 15-20 minutes as a warmup prior to beginning the test.

    -WG
     
  14. Andy Coggan

    Andy Coggan Guest

    "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:010720031532086614%[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Andy Coggan
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:010720030941537310%[email protected]...
    > > > In article <[email protected]>, Andy Coggan
    > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Question: was a pre-exercise blood sample obtained? If so, that may shed some light on why your
    > > blood lactate concentration was inordinately high
    at
    > > such a low power output.
    >
    > I don't remember. I rode the erg for 15-20 minutes as a warmup prior to beginning the test.

    Well, duh - that explains it (unless you kept the power at/below 100 W throughout your
    entire warm-up).

    Andy Coggan
     
  15. Warren

    Warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Andy Coggan
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:010720031532086614%[email protected]...
    > > In article <[email protected]>, Andy Coggan
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:010720030941537310%[email protected]...
    > > > > In article <[email protected]>, Andy Coggan
    > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Question: was a pre-exercise blood sample obtained? If so, that may shed some light on why
    > > > your blood lactate concentration was inordinately high
    > at
    > > > such a low power output.
    > >
    > > I don't remember. I rode the erg for 15-20 minutes as a warmup prior to beginning the test.
    >
    > Well, duh - that explains it (unless you kept the power at/below 100 W throughout your entire
    > warm-up).
    >
    > Andy Coggan

    Like you said, the early numbers/readings don't mean much. Or maybe I'm really bad at steady state
    efforts. Still got that hourglass for your 200 and my pursuit?

    -WG
     
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